Is homosexuallity something you are born with?

[yukichigai]

Originally posted by: halik
First off no flames,
i wanna hear some pro arguments.

Personally i think homosexuality is due to envrionmental factors ( i have somewhat of a freudia view), much like the rest of our psyche.
I've read about studies of identical twins of which one was gay and the other one wasn't. That means homosexuality is not genetic - or something you're born with since identical twins share the same DNA makeup.

Identical twins do not have identical DNA makeup. There are gene differences, however sight or major they may be. Regardless, that bears little factor into homosexuality.

A while ago a study was released taken of several children while in fetal development and onward through sexual maturity. What the study examined was the sexuality of the test subjects in comparison with developmental factors while they were in utero. Apparantly through observation researchers had noticed that for a period of time all human fetuses start off in a basic "female" state. Later in the development of the fetus hormones are introduced that stimulate the development of male characteristics, i.e. brain formation, genitalia, etc. What had already been established is that problems with the introduction of these hormones could lead to certain gender-related birth defects, the most obvious of these defects being hermaphroditism. In that instance the fetus usually is unable to produce testosterone after "male" development has been started. The body pulls a 180 and tries to go back to being female, but anything that has already developed -- namely genitalia -- is stuck like that. This is why hermaphrodites are sterile, as what would have developed into ovaries already started to become testicles.

Back to the point, based on this the study attempted to determine whether or not a similar "difficulty" during hormone introduction in fetal development could lead to much more subtle differences, i.e. homosexuality. In the end the study concluded that yes indeed problems or anomalies during fetal development could lead to "staggered" progression. In the case of homosexuals the study indicated that the body could develop as mostly (but not completely) male with the brain developing more feminine characteristics, and vice versa. (It can be inferred from this that this is the reason why many gays talk with a high voice, look feminine, etc.) This was I believe the study that prompted Dr. Laura to make the statement that "gays and lesbians are birth defects." (This of course caused outrage among the Gay/Lesbian/Bi community. I think they still offer T-shirts that say "I'm my parents' birth defect.")

Anyway, I unfortunately don't have a link to the study handy but you may be able to find it from anything about that whole Dr. Laura fiasco. The bottom line is that being gay/lesbian/bi is something you are born with.

EDIT: Fixed the Dr. Laura quote. (What a world class bi---)

 

[conjur]

Originally posted by: bolinger
I think you're born with it.

I've known guys in grade school who were fags, and they were still fags in high school too.

Wow....what intelligence you possess.

 

[TheNinja]

Originally posted by: rbloedow

Originally posted by: Staley8

Originally posted by: xospec1alk i believe people are born homosexual too. it is NOT a choice.

I believe people are NOT born homosexual. It is THEIR choice to be that way. Let me rephrase that a little. I believe certain people are born with stronger homosexual curiousities, just like I might be born with a curiousity to know what it would be like to rob a store, or jump a dirtbike really high, however acting on these feelings is a choice. Everything you do is a choice, if you are a homosexual that is your choice, not something you are biologically born with.

Then the same could be said heterosexuality, with that thinking.

That could be true I supposed but let's look at it on a strictly natural and physical level. #1:Men and Women need to have sex to make more humans. If we were all homosexual our race would die out, hence it is the order of nature that we are heterosexual. #2:When you go to plug in your lamp, do you try to plug it into another plug? No you plug it into the socket. Take a look at the male/femal anatomy certain things just fit better in certain areas.

Point: Homosexual is not natural nor are you born with it. You learn or become that way through certain experiences.

 

[yukichigai]

Originally posted by: Staley8

Originally posted by: xospec1alk
i believe people are born homosexual too. it is NOT a choice.

I believe people are NOT born homosexual. It is THEIR choice to be that way. Let me rephrase that a little. I believe certain people are born with stronger homosexual curiousities, just like I might be born with a curiousity to know what it would be like to rob a store, or jump a dirtbike really high, however acting on these feelings is a choice. Everything you do is a choice, if you are a homosexual that is your choice, not something you are biologically born with.

Interesting way of putting it. Yes, I suppose you could argue it is a choice in that regard. However for some the only other fiesable choice is asexuality (lack of) since with prominent homosexual tendancies, as you put it, comes prominent anti-heterosexual tendancies. (sometimes) I imagine for a gay person the thought of having sex with a woman can be as disgusting as the thought of having sex with a man is to a heterosexual.

 

[Moonbeam]

Originally posted by: Nocturnal

Originally posted by: t60
Incidentally, someone did a study on this. I totally forgot names etc...but they were showing it on the news. This is what they said:

If your ring finger is shorter than your index finger, then you're most likely a homosexual. This is definitely not 100% of the time, but this is what he got from his study. It has something to do with your psychological self when you are in your mothers womb.

Not sure how accurate it is, but he made sense.

ROFL send me some of that crack you're smoking, it sounds like it does the job realllyyyyyyyyyy good.

Man, somebody knows stuff you never heard of and that means he's somking dope. Could be you are a dope, no? What an ignorant way to think. I've also heard this story, by the way. Clearly the cure for homosexuality is to chop the index fingers.

 

[stormbv]

Duh, Satan tempts people with homosexual desires. Some of them stray from the path of our Lord and become sodomistic heathens.

Just kidding, I think some people are just born that way.

 

[edro]

No. The devil injects you with it later on in life.

 

[yukichigai]

Originally posted by: edro13
No. The devil injects you with it later on in life.

Yes. A special injection.

 

[Richdog]

Originally posted by: yukichigai

Originally posted by: edro13
No. The devil injects you with it later on in life.

Yes. A special injection.

A rear injection. Homosexuality is also passed on by touch and saliva due to its highly infectious nature.:beer:

 

[DougK62]

I have not seen anything that suggests that homosexuals are chemically different than heterosexuals. So I strongly feel that it is something that occurs after birth. It is my belief that children are born with no sexual orientation. IMO, sexual orientation is likely not a deliberate choice, but is determined by outside factors at usually very young ages. What are these determining factors? Your guess is as good as mine, and I bet they're different for everybody.

 

[SWScorch]

Staley8, your argument seems to me that the thought process of preferring members of the same sex is not homosexuality, but rather acting upon those urges. So, if a gay guy represses his feelings and marries a woman, even if he prefers men, that means he is not gay?

I feel that it is genetic. I know for a fact I could never have sex with another man and enjoy it, so how could someone else just one day "choose" to like that? Even if it is environmental and not genetic, it is definitely not a "choice." Look at all the persecution. Who would choose that?

 

[guapo337]

Originally posted by: Staley8

Originally posted by: xospec1alk
i believe people are born homosexual too. it is NOT a choice.

I believe people are NOT born homosexual. It is THEIR choice to be that way. Let me rephrase that a little. I believe certain people are born with stronger homosexual curiousities, just like I might be born with a curiousity to know what it would be like to rob a store, or jump a dirtbike really high, however acting on these feelings is a choice. Everything you do is a choice, if you are a homosexual that is your choice, not something you are biologically born with.

people can be born with certain curiousities? and homosexuality is a curiousity? so you're saying that you can be born with homosexual curiousities, and you just may not act on them. therefore, you are a non-practicing homosexual.

 

[daveman]

I dont think you are born homosexual. I beleive there are many factors that causes one to become this way. Maybe some guys just wake up one morning and decide they wanna big hairy butt for breakfast.

 

[yukichigai]

Originally posted by: guapo337
people can be born with certain curiousities? and homosexuality is a curiousity? so you're saying that you can be born with homosexual curiousities, and you just may not act on them. therefore, you are a non-practicing homosexual.

LOL, I must be a non-practicing mass murderer, specifically murderer of telemarketers, people who drive slow in the fast lane and lazy teenagers who f%$# up my food order at Taco Bell.

Originally posted by: DougK62
I have not seen anything that suggests that homosexuals are chemically different than heterosexuals. So I strongly feel that it is something that occurs after birth. It is my belief that children are born with no sexual orientation. IMO, sexual orientation is likely not a deliberate choice, but is determined by outside factors at usually very young ages. What are these determining factors? Your guess is as good as mine, and I bet they're different for everybody.

To be fair I should point out that extreme childhood trauma, typically something like being sexually abused, can cause someone's sexuality to be affected. I wouldn't however call that being homosexual so much as being f%$#ed up.

 

[jjones]

Gay people are gay by their own disgusting choice, it's not some disease they are born with. They could be normal if they wanted to, they just like being gay to be different or they have too many insecurities with the opposite sex.

Not that there's anything wrong with that.

 

[AEB]

its not genetic because it would be something inherited and you can have a dad that isnt gay and a sont hat choses to be so. besides if it was genetic there would be less gays every year not more because guy dont get pregnant. i think most people choose or subconsiously choose to be gay. I know a kid who was "gay" but i think he did it just to make his dad mad, sad thing is i dont think he knew he was faking gay.

I almost caught gay once but then i kicked the guy in the nuts

 

[Ranger X]

Another flame bait thread. :disgust:

 

[yukichigai]

Originally posted by: AEB
its not genetic because it would be something inherited and you can have a dad that isnt gay and a sont hat choses to be so. besides if it was genetic there would be less gays every year not more because guy dont get pregnant. i think most people choose or subconsiously choose to be gay. I know a kid who was "gay" but i think he did it just to make his dad mad, sad thing is i dont think he knew he was faking gay.

I almost caught gay once but then i kicked the guy in the nuts

Being genetic and being born with it are two different things. Read my above post and do some googling.

 

[AEB]

so its a mutatin is what ur saying like downs? i dont think so

 

[yukichigai]

Originally posted by: AEB
so its a mutatin is what ur saying like downs? i dont think so

Well that's an inelegant way of putting it but yes, it is. It has been pretty damn well established by that study, which may or may not hold any weight with you. Basically the study indicates you choose to not be homosexual about as well as you can choose not to be schizophrenic or colorblind.

 

[godspeedx]

Originally posted by: yukichigai

Originally posted by: AEB
so its a mutatin is what ur saying like downs? i dont think so

Well that's an inelegant way of putting it but yes, it is. It has been pretty damn well established by that study, which may or may not hold any weight with you. Basically the study indicates you choose to not be homosexual about as well as you can choose not to be schizophrenic or colorblind.

But you can't change being colorblind. You're born colorblind and that's it. (Unless there's some type of surgery to fix that, but that would be irrevalent to the argument anyway) Homosexuality on the other hand you can change and become straight. You can't compare it to something like colorblindness. Apples and oranges.

 

[AEB]

i dont buy it people who did that study probably say ADD cant be helped either, like savage says when a young boy starts to show signs of masculinity and acts like a kid all these "experts" say he needs drugs. its rediculous people are just being given excuses for their behavior. You can help being gay its a choice.

 

[DevilsAdvocate]

I simply don't think people would choose to be gay. Read this thread if you wonder why. I believe that it is biological - perhaps genetic, maybe hormonal. Something happened at a crucial stage of development that altered sexuality.

My uncle came out recently, and you would have thought that he had cancer the way that he was carrying on. Deep abject sobbing. There were years of pain there that he tried to mask with a failed marriage and 3 children.

I refuse to believe that it is a choice.

 

[yukichigai]

Originally posted by: godspeedx

Originally posted by: yukichigai

Originally posted by: AEB
so its a mutatin is what ur saying like downs? i dont think so

Well that's an inelegant way of putting it but yes, it is. It has been pretty damn well established by that study, which may or may not hold any weight with you. Basically the study indicates you choose to not be homosexual about as well as you can choose not to be schizophrenic or colorblind.

But you can't change being colorblind. You're born colorblind and that's it. (Unless there's some type of surgery to fix that, but that would be irrevalent to the argument anyway) Homosexuality on the other hand you can change, becoming straight.

There is insofar no medically documented evidence of someone being able to change their sexuality, most noteably because it's impossible to monitor sexual orientation beyond asking the person "so... you like guys?" I will say you can have unresolved psychological issues that can make you environmentally homosexual, i.e. molestation at a young age, that can be resolved through the use of therapy, but that's like comparing sociopathy (a medically documented disorder) to going on a shooting spree after a childhood of being beaten with straightened hangers by an abusive stepfather. One is psychological, the other is medical.

 

[DevilsAdvocate]

Originally posted by: jjones
Gay people are gay by their own disgusting choice, it's not some disease they are born with. They could be normal if they wanted to, they just like being gay to be different or they have too many insecurities with the opposite sex. Not that there's anything wrong with that.

Do you get some sort of thrill by being such an incredible ass?