Is atheism a religion?

[blackllotus]

Originally posted by: BoberFett

Originally posted by: 0roo0roo
oh f*ck, i guess anime convention goers are a religion now too. f*cking cosplay.

What do anime conventions have to do with anything? I simply refuted the argument that atheism isn't organized. There are atheist organizations.

You didn't refute that argument at all. Citing one or two atheist organizations does not make atheism itself an organized movement. I could point out numerous fan groups of various authors but that does not make their readers part of an organized group.

 

[blackllotus]

Originally posted by: Seekermeister

Originally posted by: blackllotus
So trying to ensure that this country remains secular is the same as forcing atheism on everybody?

That implies that this country has always been secular, and that is not true. The Constitution only gives a person the right to not be controlled by any particular religion. That includes atheism.

And how do you define being "controlled" by atheism? I don't see any serious movements to make belief in God illegal.

 

[Satchel]

Originally posted by: Garth
FOR THE LAST MOTHERFSKING TIME IF YOU ARE AN ATHEIST IT DOEST NOT MEAN YOU CAN'T ALSO BE AGNOSTIC AT THE SAME TIME.

a·the·ist (a'the-ist)
n.
One who disbelieves or denies the existence of God or gods.


ag·nos·tic (ag-nos'tik)
n.
One who believes that it is impossible to know whether there is a God.
One who is skeptical about the existence of God but does not profess true atheism.

 

[Seekermeister]

Originally posted by: blackllotus
You didn't refute that argument at all. Citing one or two atheist organizations does not make atheism itself an organized movement. I could point out numerous fan groups of various authors but that does not make their readers part of an organized group.

There are all different forms of organizations. It does not require that an organization have a charter, location, or elected officials.

Atheism is a body of people who actively teach, and attempt to control legislation which conforms to their beliefs. Therefore, atheist attempt to use the government as their strong arm and elected officials their pawns.

 

[Seekermeister]

Originally posted by: blackllotus
And how do you define being "controlled" by atheism? I don't see any serious movements to make belief in God illegal.

I give atheists credit that they understand that any attempt to criminalize religion, would only give those religions greater determination and strength. Atheists pick battles that they think that they can win, and the one's that they do not believe that they can outright win, they fight with words and attitudes, in the attempt to either intimidate or influence.

 

[tersome]

Seekermeister
I think you're confusing "secularism" with "atheism".

Secularism:
n. the view that public education and other matters of civil policy should be conducted without the introduction of a religious element

Atheism:
n. disbelief in the existence of a supreme being or beings

 

[jadinolf]

Originally posted by: Crono
The question is not meant to attack anyone, just to see viewpoints from different people. Please explain your answer and provide your background (whether you are an atheist, agnostic, religious, etc). Please, no flaming each other; let's try to keep this as civil as possible. If I should add additional poll options, let me know.

I tried being an atheist for a while and then I discovered that they don't have any holidays and said the h3ll with it.

 

[Seekermeister]

Tersome,

I'm confusing nothing. Here is another M-W definition:

secularism
One entry found for secularism.

Main Entry: sec·u·lar·ism
Pronunciation: 'se-ky&-l&-"ri-z&m
Function: noun
: indifference to or rejection or exclusion of religion and religious considerations
- sec·u·lar·ist /-rist/ noun
- secularist also sec·u·lar·is·tic /"se-ky&-l&-'ris-tik/ adjective

Indifference is one thing, but exclusion requires legislation that is intended to control the thoughts and actions of the subject of the rules. Since neither education or civil policy is optional, because many people can not afford to go to a private school, or be immune to the forces of society. I have no problem with a person choosing whatever faith that they prefer, including atheism, but regardless of name, atheism and secularism has alot in common in today's world.

 

[xeemzor]

Originally posted by: Seekermeister

Originally posted by: blackllotus
You didn't refute that argument at all. Citing one or two atheist organizations does not make atheism itself an organized movement. I could point out numerous fan groups of various authors but that does not make their readers part of an organized group.

There are all different forms of organizations. It does not require that an organization have a charter, location, or elected officials.

Atheism is a body of people who actively teach, and attempt to control legislation which conforms to their beliefs. Therefore, atheist attempt to use the government as their strong arm and elected officials their pawns.

Do you actually believe that drivel? Most Atheists I know, including myself, do no such thing and don't actively seek to convert people or change public policy to further atheism. Rather, they are discontent with the current notion of religion and refuse to partake in any religion. All most people I talk to want is just to not have religion thrown in their face. Honestly now, how many atheists do you know?

Your definition of what an organized movement is sucks, as one could apply your definition to practically any special interest group.

 

[Seekermeister]

Originally posted by: xeemzor
Do you actually believe that drivel? Most Atheists I know, including myself, do no such thing and don't actively seek to convert people or change public policy to further atheism. Rather, they are discontent with the current notion of religion and refuse to partake in any religion. All most people I talk to want is just to not have religion thrown in their face. Honestly now, how many atheists do you know?

Your definition of what an organized movement is sucks, as one could apply your definition to practically any special interest group.

I have no idea of how many atheists that I know, because I never counted, and if I did, I would have lost count long ago. You say that you are "discontent" with the current "notion" of religion, but if you really do not believe in God, or any of this, why should you care at all? By your attitude, you are the only person here slinging your beliefs around, but you have missed your target.

 

[xeemzor]

Originally posted by: Seekermeister

Originally posted by: xeemzor
Do you actually believe that drivel? Most Atheists I know, including myself, do no such thing and don't actively seek to convert people or change public policy to further atheism. Rather, they are discontent with the current notion of religion and refuse to partake in any religion. All most people I talk to want is just to not have religion thrown in their face. Honestly now, how many atheists do you know?

Your definition of what an organized movement is sucks, as one could apply your definition to practically any special interest group.

I have no idea of how many atheist that I know, because I never counted, and if I did, I would have lost count long ago. You say that you are "discontent" with the current "notion" of religion, but if you really do not believe in God, or any of this, why should you care at all? By your attitude, you are the only person here slinging your beliefs around, but you have missed your target.

I can't talk for other people, but I don't care that others believe in god. The problem I run into is when religion migrates from a church or private home into a place like public schools . As long as religion is kept out of public institutions, you can worship whatever you want for all I care. I don't want a religion forced on me as much as you wouldn't want a different religion forced on you.

 

[spidey07]

Originally posted by: xeemzor

I can't talk for other people, but I don't care that others believe in god. The problem I run into is when religion migrates from a church or private home into a place like public schools . As long as religion is kept out of public institutions, you can worship whatever you want for all I care. I don't want a religion forced on me as much as you wouldn't want a different religion forced on you.
[/quote]

So stop forcing yor religion on me. It's really that simple.

I can't believe people can't see this for what it is. Trying to force their athiest religion on my and society. There is a strong societal backlash against the athiest religion right now and this is the correct way to move forward. Keep their religion at home, but don't force it on other people.

 

[Seekermeister]

I can't talk for other people, but I don't care that others believe in god. The problem I run into is when religion migrates from a church or private home into a place like public schools . As long as religion is kept out of public institutions, you can worship whatever you want for all I care. I don't want a religion forced on me as much as you wouldn't want a different religion forced on you.

Are your convictions so weak, that merely being in the presence of believers forces you to believe as they do?

 

[Excelsior]

It amazes me how many people call themselves atheist but are really agnostic, but they don't know it cause they are so confused about the definitions.

 

[xeemzor]

Originally posted by: Seekermeister

I can't talk for other people, but I don't care that others believe in god. The problem I run into is when religion migrates from a church or private home into a place like public schools . As long as religion is kept out of public institutions, you can worship whatever you want for all I care. I don't want a religion forced on me as much as you wouldn't want a different religion forced on you.

Are your convictions so weak, that merely being in the presence of believers forces you to believe as they do?

Are you actually trying to say it's ok to use tax dollars to support one religion over another? All I'm trying to say is that because America is such a diverse nation, it would be discrimination and unconstitutional to support one over the other at a government level. Isn't that one of the ideals of this nation, to allow it's citizens liberty and freedom? You would squash this liberty by having the government support one religion over another. Let people choose what they want to do with their own personal fund on their own time. I don't want my money being spent on promoting a national religion just as much as I'm sure you wouldn't want your tax dollars being used to suppress religion.

No I am not converted to one religion merely by being in the presence of one of it's believers. I have quite a few very religious friends and we find other avenues to connect with one another besides religion.

 

[Seekermeister]

Originally posted by: Excelsior
It amazes me how many people call themselves atheist but are really agnostic, but they don't know it cause they are so confused about the definitions.

In this, I can agree with you. But, I really don't know how it fits into the discussion?

 

[Seekermeister]

Originally posted by: xeemzor
Are you actually trying to say it's ok to use tax dollars to support one religion over another? All I'm trying to say is that because America is such a diverse nation, it would be discrimination and unconstitutional to support one over the other at a government level. Isn't that one of the ideals of this nation, to allow it's citizens liberty and freedom? You would squash this liberty by having the government support one religion over another. Let people choose what they want to do with their own personal fund on their own time. I don't want my money being spent on promoting a national religion just as much as I'm sure you wouldn't want your tax dollars being used to suppress religion.

No I am not converted to one religion merely by being in the presence of one of it's believers. I have quite a few very religious friends and we find other avenues to connect with one another besides religion.

Why do you put words in my mouth, that I never said or thought? I would suppose it is because that you didn't make enough headway with your statement about your discontent, and simply changed the subject to taxes. No one has said anything about a national religion. I suppose that this comes from the idea of taxes paying for classes in religions. However, the government pays for alot of classes that are not of universal interest, so why should religion be excluded? Whether a person believes in a religion or not, it certainly doesn't hurt them to at least understand what it is that they don't believe in. Did you always accept and believe in everything that you were taught?

 

[xeemzor]

Originally posted by: spidey07

Originally posted by: xeemzor

I can't talk for other people, but I don't care that others believe in god. The problem I run into is when religion migrates from a church or private home into a place like public schools . As long as religion is kept out of public institutions, you can worship whatever you want for all I care. I don't want a religion forced on me as much as you wouldn't want a different religion forced on you.

So stop forcing yor religion on me. It's really that simple.

I can't believe people can't see this for what it is. Trying to force their athiest religion on my and society. There is a strong societal backlash against the athiest religion right now and this is the correct way to move forward. Keep their religion at home, but don't force it on other people.[/quote]

You can't have it both ways. You can't have the belief that one should keep their religion at home and then have a state sponsored religion. Atheism in this case is not a suppression of belief in the way that a country like Iran suppresses beliefs. It is more of a way to ensure a neutral ground for everybody and to ensure that it is possible for everybody to have their own view without being discriminated against.

 

[Seekermeister]

spidey07 didn't say anything about a state sponsored religion either.

 

[Excelsior]

Originally posted by: Seekermeister

Originally posted by: Excelsior
It amazes me how many people call themselves atheist but are really agnostic, but they don't know it cause they are so confused about the definitions.

In this, I can agree with you. But, I really don't know how it fits into the discussion?

It fits in quite well, because this is one of the main problems I have noticed in this thread.

If people are going to be so outspoken with their beliefs they might want to figure out what they really believe and how it is defined.

Thats all I am saying.

 

[Seekermeister]

Not everybody has the benefit of understanding all things...even themselves. If an agnostic doesn't know what he believes, why should he be expected to be outspoken? It's a bit more complex than simply jumping on a bandwagon. In a fashion, I have a respect for an agnostic that keeps his mouth shut, because they know they don't have all of the answers...unlike an atheist.

 

[Excelsior]

Originally posted by: Seekermeister
Not everybody has the benefit of understanding all things...even themselves. If an agnostic doesn't know what he believes, why should he be expected to be outspoken? It's a bit more complex than simply jumping on a bandwagon. In a fashion, I have a respect for an agnostic that keeps his mouth shut, because they know they don't have all of the answers...unlike an atheist.

What? He shouldn't be expected to be outspoken.

You must be confused.

I am saying that the ones who choose to be so outspoken should at least know how their beliefs are defined and what they are called.

 

[Seekermeister]

The only thing that I'm confused about is your response. While I agree that a person should know what their beliefs are, if an agnostic knew, they would not be agnostic. A person doesn't simply choose what they believe...unless they are atheistic. Being outspoken if fine, but only when what they say is the truth as they see it.

 

[Ruptga]

Originally posted by: Zysoclaplem
All religions are beliefs, but not all beliefs are religions.

Yeah what he said.

Atheism can be like a religion, in that people can get quite fired up about it, but there is no one unifying organization of atheists, they simply don't believe in god(s).

It can be said that science is a religion, since it is an organized set of beliefs and, by its nature, seeks to find the answers of the universe like where did we come from, where are we going, etc etc. But that said, there are many Christian, Muslim, etc etc scientists that do not view science as a religion but as another way of figuring stuff out, and those same scientists are very devout in their (spiritual) religion. It seems to me that science is what you make of it, it can either fit inside (or work with, however you phrase it) your religion, or it can be something entirely of its own that trumps all other religions; it all depends upon what you choose to believe (or what you find to be true, again, however you phrase it).

But that's another thread all its own; I can say that I don't find atheism to be a religion proper, but a general religious conclusion that there is no religion to be had. So it's not a religion in the common usage of the word, but religious beliefs do make up religions. I suppose atheism can be thought of as a religion, even though it's a very grass-roots type religion with many different underlying philosophies that lead to the 'there is no god' conclusion.

Edited for clarification. What I mean is that Athiests don't necessarily agree on anything but the lack of any diety.

 

[spidey07]

Originally posted by: ADDAvenger
Atheism can be like a religion, in that people can get quite fired up about it, but there is no one unifying belief of atheists, they simply don't believe in god(s).

Can you not see what you are saying????????