Is atheism a religion?

[yllus]

Originally posted by: aidanjm

Originally posted by: yllus
It does promote irrational belief. Disbelief in something that can never be proven is hardly more logical than believing in it.

The difference between a christian and an atheist is the number of gods they choose not to believe in - and it is a difference of just one god. so please do acknowledge how "irrational" all christians are for not believing in Zeus, the native Australian Aboriginial sprits, ancient roman and greek gods, etc. :roll:

You can't think clearly or sensibly or rationally. It is a problem that many conservatives have, sadly. This topic really separates the men from the boys in terms of clarity of thought.

Sure. All theists are partaking in irrational belief. *pets your head* Feel better?

Being considered a conservative by the likes of you affirms that I'm actually safely ensconced in the political center, so thanks for that. :thumbsup:

 

[yllus]

Originally posted by: 91TTZ

Originally posted by: yllus
It does promote irrational belief. Disbelief in something that can never be proven is hardly more logical than believing in it.

Huh?

If you can't prove something, then how can you believe it exists?

Hey, I have a purple space alient sitting next to me right now. You can't see it because it's invisible. If you don't believe me, you're worse off than the guy who does believe me.

Where am I advocating believing in anything in the absence of proof? I'm asking to see observable phenomenon before making a statement for or against the existence of _______.

This is not the same as claiming that your dog Spot heads the U.S. military-industrial complex. We know something about dogs and what they're likely capable of. We've dissected dog brains. There's a basis for disbelief in such a claim. Where's the basis for disbelief in god?

Cripes, are there ever a huge amount of people who don't understand the very basics of how to put together a coherent argument. Or how to read.

 

[AreaCode707]

It's not a religion but it is a faith. It takes faith to believe in nothing, just as it takes faith to believe in something, since there's no scientific way at this point to prove or disprove a god or gods. Religion implies something more organized.

 

[Eeezee]

Disbelief is not belief. No matter how many times you try to say it, it's just not true. Atheism also lacks any semblance of structure and thus can not be a religion. Atheists generally can't recruit even though some do try. If you have faith, that's pretty much all there is. If you lack faith, well, that's that.

 

[0roo0roo]

Originally posted by: Tom

Originally posted by: 0roo0roo
disbelief is not religion. else not believing the world is flat, or that santa is real would be a religion. it would become absurd, you would have to believe in everything in order to escape that trap, but then you'd be religious anyways, so its an absurd way of thinking.

and you can be absurd and pretend there are atheists that just "believe" that there is no god so strongly you consider it a religion. i've never seen one though. they just ask for what is necessary, extraordinary proof for extraordinary claims.

What do you call it when someone looks for affirmation for their position from others, attend conferences, anoint spokespersons, and participate in the ridicule of people with a different position ?

Doesn't apply to all atheists, but then the same sort of phenomena doesn't apply to all theists either. For example I believe I've read that Lincoln and some of the founding fathers rejected religion, but considered themselves theists.

conferences are about pushing rational thinking, not just non belief in god. and frankly its obvious something has to be done considering how the plague of irrational thought still infects much of the world. its hardly a benign thing to be ignored.

 

[Tom]

Originally posted by: 0roo0roo

Originally posted by: Tom

Originally posted by: 0roo0roo
disbelief is not religion. else not believing the world is flat, or that santa is real would be a religion. it would become absurd, you would have to believe in everything in order to escape that trap, but then you'd be religious anyways, so its an absurd way of thinking.

and you can be absurd and pretend there are atheists that just "believe" that there is no god so strongly you consider it a religion. i've never seen one though. they just ask for what is necessary, extraordinary proof for extraordinary claims.

What do you call it when someone looks for affirmation for their position from others, attend conferences, anoint spokespersons, and participate in the ridicule of people with a different position ?

Doesn't apply to all atheists, but then the same sort of phenomena doesn't apply to all theists either. For example I believe I've read that Lincoln and some of the founding fathers rejected religion, but considered themselves theists.

conferences are about pushing rational thinking, not just non belief in god. and frankly its obvious something has to be done considering how the plague of irrational thought still infects much of the world. its hardly a benign thing to be ignored.

See, the point of view you express, that atheism is superior because it is more rational, is exactly the same as any other religion that tries to force their beliefs on other people.

It is no more rational to not believe in god(s) than it is to believe in god(s). Neither position is based on anything but opinion supported by a complete lack of facts.

Some atheists like to think that the absence of known facts proves something, which is a complete fallacy.

But there's no point in arguing with them about it, their faith is as deep as any theists, while equally ludicrous to anyone who doesn't subscribe to the same point of view.

 

[sandorski]

Originally posted by: Tom

Originally posted by: 0roo0roo

Originally posted by: Tom

Originally posted by: 0roo0roo
disbelief is not religion. else not believing the world is flat, or that santa is real would be a religion. it would become absurd, you would have to believe in everything in order to escape that trap, but then you'd be religious anyways, so its an absurd way of thinking.

and you can be absurd and pretend there are atheists that just "believe" that there is no god so strongly you consider it a religion. i've never seen one though. they just ask for what is necessary, extraordinary proof for extraordinary claims.

What do you call it when someone looks for affirmation for their position from others, attend conferences, anoint spokespersons, and participate in the ridicule of people with a different position ?

Doesn't apply to all atheists, but then the same sort of phenomena doesn't apply to all theists either. For example I believe I've read that Lincoln and some of the founding fathers rejected religion, but considered themselves theists.

conferences are about pushing rational thinking, not just non belief in god. and frankly its obvious something has to be done considering how the plague of irrational thought still infects much of the world. its hardly a benign thing to be ignored.

See, the point of view you express, that atheism is superior because it is more rational, is exactly the same as any other religion that tries to force their beliefs on other people.

It is no more rational to not believe in god(s) than it is to believe in god(s). Neither position is based on anything but opinion supported by a complete lack of facts.

Some atheists like to think that the absence of known facts proves something, which is a complete fallacy.

But there's no point in arguing with them about it, their faith is as deep as any theists, while equally ludicrous to anyone who doesn't subscribe to the same point of view.

You are incorrect.

 

[JackBurton]

Originally posted by: Tom

Originally posted by: 0roo0roo

Originally posted by: Tom

Originally posted by: 0roo0roo
disbelief is not religion. else not believing the world is flat, or that santa is real would be a religion. it would become absurd, you would have to believe in everything in order to escape that trap, but then you'd be religious anyways, so its an absurd way of thinking.

and you can be absurd and pretend there are atheists that just "believe" that there is no god so strongly you consider it a religion. i've never seen one though. they just ask for what is necessary, extraordinary proof for extraordinary claims.

What do you call it when someone looks for affirmation for their position from others, attend conferences, anoint spokespersons, and participate in the ridicule of people with a different position ?

Doesn't apply to all atheists, but then the same sort of phenomena doesn't apply to all theists either. For example I believe I've read that Lincoln and some of the founding fathers rejected religion, but considered themselves theists.

conferences are about pushing rational thinking, not just non belief in god. and frankly its obvious something has to be done considering how the plague of irrational thought still infects much of the world. its hardly a benign thing to be ignored.

See, the point of view you express, that atheism is superior because it is more rational, is exactly the same as any other religion that tries to force their beliefs on other people.

It is no more rational to not believe in god(s) than it is to believe in god(s). Neither position is based on anything but opinion supported by a complete lack of facts.

Some atheists like to think that the absence of known facts proves something, which is a complete fallacy.

But there's no point in arguing with them about it, their faith is as deep as any theists, while equally ludicrous to anyone who doesn't subscribe to the same point of view.

Please cut the bullsh!t. So if a large group of people believed in the Toothfairy and you simply said, "where is your evidence of such a being," all of a sudden your rationalization of the situation becomes a religion? Give me a freakin' break. The rationalization that Atheist use to argue that there is no evidence of your God, is they SAME rationalization everyone else uses in their day-to-day lives. Religious people just choose to stop being logical when it comes to there religion. It's as simple as that.

 

[AreaCode707]

Originally posted by: Tom

Originally posted by: 0roo0roo

Originally posted by: Tom

Originally posted by: 0roo0roo
disbelief is not religion. else not believing the world is flat, or that santa is real would be a religion. it would become absurd, you would have to believe in everything in order to escape that trap, but then you'd be religious anyways, so its an absurd way of thinking.

and you can be absurd and pretend there are atheists that just "believe" that there is no god so strongly you consider it a religion. i've never seen one though. they just ask for what is necessary, extraordinary proof for extraordinary claims.

What do you call it when someone looks for affirmation for their position from others, attend conferences, anoint spokespersons, and participate in the ridicule of people with a different position ?

Doesn't apply to all atheists, but then the same sort of phenomena doesn't apply to all theists either. For example I believe I've read that Lincoln and some of the founding fathers rejected religion, but considered themselves theists.

conferences are about pushing rational thinking, not just non belief in god. and frankly its obvious something has to be done considering how the plague of irrational thought still infects much of the world. its hardly a benign thing to be ignored.

See, the point of view you express, that atheism is superior because it is more rational, is exactly the same as any other religion that tries to force their beliefs on other people.

It is no more rational to not believe in god(s) than it is to believe in god(s). Neither position is based on anything but opinion supported by a complete lack of facts.

Some atheists like to think that the absence of known facts proves something, which is a complete fallacy.

But there's no point in arguing with them about it, their faith is as deep as any theists, while equally ludicrous to anyone who doesn't subscribe to the same point of view.

QFT. The key word here is faith. Atheism is not a religion because it is not organized. You can squabble over the term "belief" versus "disbelief" - does disbelief equal a belief in nothing? So, setting aside that debate, the word that comes is "faith." Since the absence of a God cannot be proven, according to very basic principles of logic (see below), a statement in either direction is based upon faith. Agnostics are on the most solid ground, logically speaking.

This fallacy often occurs in the debate of the existence of God, and the existence of aliens in the following form:

"A supernatural force must exist because there is no proof that it does not exist".

However, the converse is also true, according to the argument from ignorance:

"I have not seen proof that something supernatural exists, therefore a supernatural force cannot exist".

 

[BoberFett]

Originally posted by: HotChic
Atheism is not a religion because it is not organized.

Really?

http://www.atheists.org/convention/

 

[0roo0roo]

oh f*ck, i guess anime convention goers are a religion now too. f*cking cosplay.

 

[Cerpin Taxt]

FOR THE LAST MOTHERFSKING TIME IF YOU ARE AN ATHEIST IT DOEST NOT MEAN YOU CAN'T ALSO BE AGNOSTIC AT THE SAME TIME.

 

[BoberFett]

Originally posted by: 0roo0roo
oh f*ck, i guess anime convention goers are a religion now too. f*cking cosplay.

What do anime conventions have to do with anything? I simply refuted the argument that atheism isn't organized. There are atheist organizations.

I guess when logic fails you, resort to cursing and ridiculous comparisons. It's funny how defensive some of you are getting about atheism. It's almost like somebody was attacking your religion.

 

[Tom]

Originally posted by: JackBurton

Originally posted by: Tom

Originally posted by: 0roo0roo

Originally posted by: Tom

Originally posted by: 0roo0roo
disbelief is not religion. else not believing the world is flat, or that santa is real would be a religion. it would become absurd, you would have to believe in everything in order to escape that trap, but then you'd be religious anyways, so its an absurd way of thinking.

and you can be absurd and pretend there are atheists that just "believe" that there is no god so strongly you consider it a religion. i've never seen one though. they just ask for what is necessary, extraordinary proof for extraordinary claims.

What do you call it when someone looks for affirmation for their position from others, attend conferences, anoint spokespersons, and participate in the ridicule of people with a different position ?

Doesn't apply to all atheists, but then the same sort of phenomena doesn't apply to all theists either. For example I believe I've read that Lincoln and some of the founding fathers rejected religion, but considered themselves theists.

conferences are about pushing rational thinking, not just non belief in god. and frankly its obvious something has to be done considering how the plague of irrational thought still infects much of the world. its hardly a benign thing to be ignored.

See, the point of view you express, that atheism is superior because it is more rational, is exactly the same as any other religion that tries to force their beliefs on other people.

It is no more rational to not believe in god(s) than it is to believe in god(s). Neither position is based on anything but opinion supported by a complete lack of facts.

Some atheists like to think that the absence of known facts proves something, which is a complete fallacy.

But there's no point in arguing with them about it, their faith is as deep as any theists, while equally ludicrous to anyone who doesn't subscribe to the same point of view.

Please cut the bullsh!t. So if a large group of people believed in the Toothfairy and you simply said, "where is your evidence of such a being," all of a sudden your rationalization of the situation becomes a religion? Give me a freakin' break. The rationalization that Atheist use to argue that there is no evidence of your God, is they SAME rationalization everyone else uses in their day-to-day lives. Religious people just choose to stop being logical when it comes to there religion. It's as simple as that.

I said nothing about a large group being necessary for a religion, one person can form their own religion.

The rest of your post is nothing but a personal attack, based on what I already said, you feel you have reached a superior conclusion by ascribing words like logic to your own beliefs, when there is no logic present.

I have not proposed there is any evidence that god(s) exist, my point is the absence of evidence doesn't establish their non-existence.

And there isn't anything wrong with either belief, but there is something wrong with saying either belief is superior to other because one is rational and the other isn't.

 

[silent tone]

If we listen to Martin Luther when he says that reason is the enemy of faith and that faith must trample reason and sense underfoot, then calling an atheists rationality 'faith' would be oxymoronic.

Originally posted by: BoberFett

Originally posted by: 0roo0roo
oh f*ck, i guess anime convention goers are a religion now too. f*cking cosplay.

What do anime conventions have to do with anything? I simply refuted the argument that atheism isn't organized. There are atheist organizations.

I guess when logic fails you, resort to cursing and ridiculous comparisons. It's funny how defensive some of you are getting about atheism. It's almost like somebody was attacking your religion.

They may have a few small conventions, but organizing atheists is like herding cats. They question everything.

Some people might get defensive because they find that characterizing rationality as 'faith' is offensive. Similarly when christian scientists tried to change the definition of science to include the supernatural or equating both evolution and ID as both theories or both philosphies depending on which minister you speak to.

 

[Seekermeister]

I have not read the other response to this thread, because I have discussed this elsewhere, many times before. I did notice one of the first responses, as I scrolled down to the quick reply box, which I thought was fairly typical, in which the person stated that atheist do not believe in "irrational" concepts. Of course, rationality is a perception based on an individual's personal understanding and biases. Atheism is definitely a religion, the only difference is that instead of meeting at a prescribed time and location, with their "congregation", they simply use the world as the church.

 

[spidey07]

Originally posted by: Seekermeister
I have not read the other response to this thread, because I have discussed this elsewhere, many times before. I did notice one of the first responses, as I scrolled down to the quick reply box, which I thought was fairly typical, in which the person stated that atheist do not believe in "irrational" concepts. Of course, rationality is a perception based on an individual's personal understanding and biases. Atheism is definitely a religion, the only difference is that instead of meeting at a prescribed time and location, with their "congregation", they simply use the world as the church.

And in doing so they try to force their religion on others. Heck, some dude just lit himself on fire to protest a freaking holiday. While this represents the lunatic fringe for sure, the desire to force their religion on society and others is what is so concerning. It's the very definition of a hypocrite.

 

[Seekermeister]

Spidey07,

Your view on the actions of some Christians, has little to do with Christianity as a whole. As far as the characteristic that you point to, where Christians attempt to "force" their beliefs on others, that is not something relating only to
Christians, because atheists are at the forefront of trying to control society. To defend one's faith is not hypocrisy, to say one thing and to do another is.

 

[spidey07]

Originally posted by: Seekermeister
Spidey07,

Your view on the actions of some Christians, has little to do with Christianity as a whole. As far as the characteristic that you point to, where Christians attempt to "force" their beliefs on others, that is not something relating only to
Christians, because atheists are at the forefront of trying to control society. To defend one's faith is not hypocrisy, to say one thing and to do another is.

heh, my point was that the athiest religion tries to force it's religion on others much more feverntly than any other. They hypocrisy is mant/most athetists wax poetic about how religion tries to forces itself upon others, and in turn they try to force their religion on society....hypocrisy.

 

[3NF]

If you can go through life being an asshole less than the amount of time you aren't an asshole, then you've probably done well enough for any religion to accept you.

 

[0roo0roo]

actually no, it doesn't try to force anything. it tries to convince based on the force of its arguements. and thats a big problem for religion since based on reason religion totally fails. its arguements are torn down, its arguements are all weak and based on fallacy and nonsense. so it must divert attention with personal attacks and other nonsense trying to muddy up the issue by calling atheists a religion and such stuff.

 

[Xylitol]

Atheism is not a religion because religion is believing in a supernatural force or god while
atheism is the belief of there being NO "" "

 

[Seekermeister]

Originally posted by: Xylitol
Atheism is not a religion because religion is believing in a supernatural force or god while
atheism is the belief of there being NO "" "

Here is M-W's definition:

Main Entry: re·li·gion
Pronunciation: ri-'li-j&n
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English religioun, from Anglo-French religiun, Latin religion-, religio supernatural constraint, sanction, religious practice, perhaps from religare to restrain, tie back -- more at RELY
1 a : the state of a religious <a nun in her 20th year of religion> b (1) : the service and worship of God or the supernatural (2) : commitment or devotion to religious faith or observance
2 : a personal set or institutionalized system of religious attitudes, beliefs, and practices
3 archaic : scrupulous conformity : CONSCIENTIOUSNESS
4 : a cause, principle, or system of beliefs held to with ardor and faith
- re·li·gion·less adjective

Obviously, your definition of religion is a "bit" narrow.

 

[blackllotus]

Originally posted by: spidey07
heh, my point was that the athiest religion tries to force it's religion on others much more feverntly than any other. They hypocrisy is mant/most athetists wax poetic about how religion tries to forces itself upon others, and in turn they try to force their religion on society....hypocrisy.

So trying to ensure that this country remains secular is the same as forcing atheism on everybody?

 

[Seekermeister]

Originally posted by: blackllotus
So trying to ensure that this country remains secular is the same as forcing atheism on everybody?

That implies that this country has always been secular, and that is not true. The Constitution only gives a person the right to not be controlled by any particular religion. That includes atheism.