You didn't refute that argument at all. Citing one or two atheist organizations does not make atheism itself an organized movement. I could point out numerous fan groups of various authors but that does not make their readers part of an organized group.
You didn't refute that argument at all. Citing one or two atheist organizations does not make atheism itself an organized movement. I could point out numerous fan groups of various authors but that does not make their readers part of an organized group.
And how do you define being "controlled" by atheism? I don't see any serious movements to make belief in God illegal.
a·the·ist (a'the-ist)
n.
One who disbelieves or denies the existence of God or gods.
ag·nos·tic (ag-nos'tik)
n.
One who believes that it is impossible to know whether there is a God.
One who is skeptical about the existence of God but does not profess true atheism.
There are all different forms of organizations. It does not require that an organization have a charter, location, or elected officials.
Atheism is a body of people who actively teach, and attempt to control legislation which conforms to their beliefs. Therefore, atheist attempt to use the government as their strong arm and elected officials their pawns.
I give atheists credit that they understand that any attempt to criminalize religion, would only give those religions greater determination and strength. Atheists pick battles that they think that they can win, and the one's that they do not believe that they can outright win, they fight with words and attitudes, in the attempt to either intimidate or influence.
Seekermeister
I think you're confusing "secularism" with "atheism".
Secularism:
n. the view that public education and other matters of civil policy should be conducted without the introduction of a religious element
Atheism:
n. disbelief in the existence of a supreme being or beings
I think you're confusing "secularism" with "atheism".
Secularism:
n. the view that public education and other matters of civil policy should be conducted without the introduction of a religious element
Atheism:
n. disbelief in the existence of a supreme being or beings
Tersome,
I'm confusing nothing. Here is another M-W definition:
I'm confusing nothing. Here is another M-W definition:
Indifference is one thing, but exclusion requires legislation that is intended to control the thoughts and actions of the subject of the rules. Since neither education or civil policy is optional, because many people can not afford to go to a private school, or be immune to the forces of society. I have no problem with a person choosing whatever faith that they prefer, including atheism, but regardless of name, atheism and secularism has alot in common in today's world.
Do you actually believe that drivel? Most Atheists I know, including myself, do no such thing and don't actively seek to convert people or change public policy to further atheism. Rather, they are discontent with the current notion of religion and refuse to partake in any religion. All most people I talk to want is just to not have religion thrown in their face. Honestly now, how many atheists do you know?
Your definition of what an organized movement is sucks, as one could apply your definition to practically any special interest group.
I have no idea of how many atheists that I know, because I never counted, and if I did, I would have lost count long ago. You say that you are "discontent" with the current "notion" of religion, but if you really do not believe in God, or any of this, why should you care at all? By your attitude, you are the only person here slinging your beliefs around, but you have missed your target.
I can't talk for other people, but I don't care that others believe in god. The problem I run into is when religion migrates from a church or private home into a place like public schools . As long as religion is kept out of public institutions, you can worship whatever you want for all I care. I don't want a religion forced on me as much as you wouldn't want a different religion forced on you.
I can't talk for other people, but I don't care that others believe in god. The problem I run into is when religion migrates from a church or private home into a place like public schools . As long as religion is kept out of public institutions, you can worship whatever you want for all I care. I don't want a religion forced on me as much as you wouldn't want a different religion forced on you.
[/quote]
So stop forcing yor religion on me. It's really that simple.
I can't believe people can't see this for what it is. Trying to force their athiest religion on my and society. There is a strong societal backlash against the athiest religion right now and this is the correct way to move forward. Keep their religion at home, but don't force it on other people.
Are your convictions so weak, that merely being in the presence of believers forces you to believe as they do?
It amazes me how many people call themselves atheist but are really agnostic, but they don't know it cause they are so confused about the definitions.
Are you actually trying to say it's ok to use tax dollars to support one religion over another? All I'm trying to say is that because America is such a diverse nation, it would be discrimination and unconstitutional to support one over the other at a government level. Isn't that one of the ideals of this nation, to allow it's citizens liberty and freedom? You would squash this liberty by having the government support one religion over another. Let people choose what they want to do with their own personal fund on their own time. I don't want my money being spent on promoting a national religion just as much as I'm sure you wouldn't want your tax dollars being used to suppress religion.
No I am not converted to one religion merely by being in the presence of one of it's believers. I have quite a few very religious friends and we find other avenues to connect with one another besides religion.
Why do you put words in my mouth, that I never said or thought? I would suppose it is because that you didn't make enough headway with your statement about your discontent, and simply changed the subject to taxes. No one has said anything about a national religion. I suppose that this comes from the idea of taxes paying for classes in religions. However, the government pays for alot of classes that are not of universal interest, so why should religion be excluded? Whether a person believes in a religion or not, it certainly doesn't hurt them to at least understand what it is that they don't believe in. Did you always accept and believe in everything that you were taught?
So stop forcing yor religion on me. It's really that simple.
I can't believe people can't see this for what it is. Trying to force their athiest religion on my and society. There is a strong societal backlash against the athiest religion right now and this is the correct way to move forward. Keep their religion at home, but don't force it on other people.[/quote]
You can't have it both ways. You can't have the belief that one should keep their religion at home and then have a state sponsored religion. Atheism in this case is not a suppression of belief in the way that a country like Iran suppresses beliefs. It is more of a way to ensure a neutral ground for everybody and to ensure that it is possible for everybody to have their own view without being discriminated against.
It fits in quite well, because this is one of the main problems I have noticed in this thread.
If people are going to be so outspoken with their beliefs they might want to figure out what they really believe and how it is defined.
Thats all I am saying.
Not everybody has the benefit of understanding all things...even themselves. If an agnostic doesn't know what he believes, why should he be expected to be outspoken? It's a bit more complex than simply jumping on a bandwagon. In a fashion, I have a respect for an agnostic that keeps his mouth shut, because they know they don't have all of the answers...unlike an atheist.
What? He shouldn't be expected to be outspoken.
You must be confused.
I am saying that the ones who choose to be so outspoken should at least know how their beliefs are defined and what they are called.
The only thing that I'm confused about is your response. While I agree that a person should know what their beliefs are, if an agnostic knew, they would not be agnostic. A person doesn't simply choose what they believe...unless they are atheistic. Being outspoken if fine, but only when what they say is the truth as they see it.
Ruptga
Lifer
- Aug 3, 2006
- 10,246
- 207
- 106
Yeah what he said.
Atheism can be like a religion, in that people can get quite fired up about it, but there is no one unifying organization of atheists, they simply don't believe in god(s).
It can be said that science is a religion, since it is an organized set of beliefs and, by its nature, seeks to find the answers of the universe like where did we come from, where are we going, etc etc. But that said, there are many Christian, Muslim, etc etc scientists that do not view science as a religion but as another way of figuring stuff out, and those same scientists are very devout in their (spiritual) religion. It seems to me that science is what you make of it, it can either fit inside (or work with, however you phrase it) your religion, or it can be something entirely of its own that trumps all other religions; it all depends upon what you choose to believe (or what you find to be true, again, however you phrase it).
But that's another thread all its own; I can say that I don't find atheism to be a religion proper, but a general religious conclusion that there is no religion to be had. So it's not a religion in the common usage of the word, but religious beliefs do make up religions. I suppose atheism can be thought of as a religion, even though it's a very grass-roots type religion with many different underlying philosophies that lead to the 'there is no god' conclusion.
Edited for clarification. What I mean is that Athiests don't necessarily agree on anything but the lack of any diety.
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