I think they are almost one in the same. To join the army, you must have unconditional trust and complete faith in your leadership, from your commanding officer, to the leaders of your country. These are the people who determine whether you live, or die... and in turn, you must believe in the actions of your leaders because you have no choice. I couldn't handle having my fate in someone elses hands.
I think they are almost one in the same. To join the army, you must have unconditional trust and complete faith in your leadership, from your commanding officer, to the leaders of your country. These are the people who determine whether you live, or die... and in turn, you must believe in the actions of your leaders because you have no choice. I couldn't handle having my fate in someone elses hands.
"They deserve thanks JUST because they went to war? Why thank someone if you do not support the cause, the need to go to war. The ends don't always justify the means. If it was for WW2, or a war of similar gravity, I thank them. But Vietnam and similar mistakes... sorry."
I took part in protests of the Vietnam war in the early 70s, but your attitude towards the soldiers is abhorrent to me.
I took part in protests of the Vietnam war in the early 70s, but your attitude towards the soldiers is abhorrent to me.
Ah me, the mirror's reflecting brightly tonight.
Rogue, there's so much I would say if I had no honor or didn't kow that any hate or spite I feel for others is just my hidden slef hate.
I understand your passion very well. But you are very young and full of yourself and not very self aware.
Rogue, there's so much I would say if I had no honor or didn't kow that any hate or spite I feel for others is just my hidden slef hate.
I understand your passion very well. But you are very young and full of yourself and not very self aware.
Moonbeam, I'm afraid you don't know me well enough to say that I'm young and full of myself. The same could be said for you, as I don't know you at all. I'm sure we could both carry on a rather interesting conversation in person and I'm sure I'm far more intellectual that you could ever imagine and perhaps a bit older too. I've been around the world in my lifetime, I know what it's like to live in other countries. Again, I find it ironic that you would make a statement about me being full of myself. This could get interesting, but alas, I refer to the links below:
Iraq ATOT Lately, myself included...
Title Bar says it all...
BTW, that last one was to lighten things up. Comedy is always at someone else's expense, so I guess it's your time to pay.
Iraq ATOT Lately, myself included...
Title Bar says it all...
BTW, that last one was to lighten things up. Comedy is always at someone else's expense, so I guess it's your time to pay.
Moon, I don't think that you really believe that, and realize you posted tongue-in-cheek, but I'm afraid that there are wey too many Bush-haters that really want a war to go badly.
I don't live in a country that has so much military involvement. I can count on one hand the number of people I know who are currently involved, or have been involved. I don't put any more sifnigance on the death of a soldier than the death of the man who fixes my car.
Both worked for an honest living, and for THAT, my hat goes off to them. I'm afraid it just isn't the same here.
Haha, the typical knee-jerk reaction of a idiot in search of two words to put together.Originally posted by: ManSnake
Haha, the typical knee-jerk reaction of a bandwagon-hopping whore
I wouldn't call yourself a whore though boysnake, a bandwagon-hopping tool mabye, but not a whore. That's just not nice to whore's.
Going to war for your country is just a bit more than "working for an honest living". Mechanics aren't laying their lives on the line in the name of your country.
When your country sends its soldiers to war, the time for debate is gone....then it's time for the whole country to get behind them and help them win and bring as many back alive as possible.
ManSnake
Diamond Member
- Oct 26, 2000
- 4,749
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Ah, but you see your logic is once again flawed. A police officer's duty is to enforce law and to stop crime, if he is killed while performing his duty, then his death is not in vain.
On the other hand, provided the war is unnecessary, then those that had to die in a meaningless war, they died in vain.
Oh Rogue, likewise, I don't need your sympathy as I am quite happy with where I am at in life, so you can save your symapthy for others that are more deserving of it
Pacfanweb: Moon, I don't think that you really believe that, and realize you posted tongue-in-cheek, but I'm afraid that there are wey too many Bush-haters that really want a war to go badly.
--------------------------
Anything is possible, but I can't believe that anybody would rather like to see a huge civilian death toll because it would look bad for Bush. I can see I told you so, or Saddam grinning to himself, but to me it's just nut case conservatives projecting their won calous indifference to life on liberals. And I don't mean all conservatives, just the ones with those kinds of notions. We see in others what we hide about ourselves from ourselves. My magic mirror trick.
--------------------------
Anything is possible, but I can't believe that anybody would rather like to see a huge civilian death toll because it would look bad for Bush. I can see I told you so, or Saddam grinning to himself, but to me it's just nut case conservatives projecting their won calous indifference to life on liberals. And I don't mean all conservatives, just the ones with those kinds of notions. We see in others what we hide about ourselves from ourselves. My magic mirror trick.
ManSnake
Diamond Member
- Oct 26, 2000
- 4,749
- 1
- 0
Originally posted by: Sketcher
Haha, the typical knee-jerk reaction of a idiot in search of two words to put together.Originally posted by: ManSnake
Haha, the typical knee-jerk reaction of a bandwagon-hopping whore
I wouldn't call yourself a whore though boysnake, a bandwagon-hopping tool mabye, but not a whore. That's just not nice to whore's.
Wow, I am impressed! You sure are catching on fast, even adopting the catchy phrases that I use.
I will further assist you hopping onto the bandwagon of knowledge!
And who deems a war unnecessary? The likes of you? Or the people that are being liberated or saved from certain death by an evil regime?
My next question is, if a cop's job is to enforce the law and stop crime and he dies, it's not in vain? Riddle me this then. If a soldier's job is to protect the innocent by removing the evil and he dies, he automatically dies in vain? Last I checked, a soldier's job is to protect the lives of others, first and foremost. The only difference is, the soldier rarely makes a decision on who's life it is he's protecting, much like a police officer who saves a murderer's life. You place YOUR judgement where it has no bearing and you're wrong for it. You may never admit it, but you're entire rationale is seriously flawed. You obviously have a bias toward the soldier and his/her duties.
BTW, just for clarification. It is not a soldier's job to kill implicitly. This is where I think you have a grave misunderstanding of the job of a soldier. Just about any soldier you could speak to would tell you that they train and equip themselves in such a way as to deter killing. No human finds within themselves an innate need to kill others unless they are fundamentally flawed. I think I can honestly say that I've done a lot more study on the soldier in combat than most of the people on these forums. The uniforms, the weaponry, the training, it's all equivalent to fanning out the tail feathers and puffing up the chest, at least that's always the hope. Just like a cop is trained to kill, it plays a very small part in his/her overall job.
My next question is, if a cop's job is to enforce the law and stop crime and he dies, it's not in vain? Riddle me this then. If a soldier's job is to protect the innocent by removing the evil and he dies, he automatically dies in vain? Last I checked, a soldier's job is to protect the lives of others, first and foremost. The only difference is, the soldier rarely makes a decision on who's life it is he's protecting, much like a police officer who saves a murderer's life. You place YOUR judgement where it has no bearing and you're wrong for it. You may never admit it, but you're entire rationale is seriously flawed. You obviously have a bias toward the soldier and his/her duties.
BTW, just for clarification. It is not a soldier's job to kill implicitly. This is where I think you have a grave misunderstanding of the job of a soldier. Just about any soldier you could speak to would tell you that they train and equip themselves in such a way as to deter killing. No human finds within themselves an innate need to kill others unless they are fundamentally flawed. I think I can honestly say that I've done a lot more study on the soldier in combat than most of the people on these forums. The uniforms, the weaponry, the training, it's all equivalent to fanning out the tail feathers and puffing up the chest, at least that's always the hope. Just like a cop is trained to kill, it plays a very small part in his/her overall job.
A soldier's job is to follow orders. Those orders should be a means to protect their country. Soldiers who fall following such orders should be honored. Soldiers who fall following the political whims of their government should be pitied.
\Sketcher <--------- waiting for ManWhore's bandwagon of knowledge ................ still waiting...................Originally posted by: ManSnake
Originally posted by: Sketcher
Haha, the typical knee-jerk reaction of a idiot in search of two words to put together.Originally posted by: ManSnake
Haha, the typical knee-jerk reaction of a bandwagon-hopping whore
I wouldn't call yourself a whore though boysnake, a bandwagon-hopping tool mabye, but not a whore. That's just not nice to whore's.
Wow, I am impressed! You sure are catching on fast, even adopting the catchy phrases that I use.
I will further assist you hopping onto the bandwagon of knowledge!
\Looks back through ManSnake's posts and finds very little to support the idea that any sort of vehicle of knowledge is being piloted.
Originally posted by: Moonbeam
Pacfanweb: Moon, I don't think that you really believe that, and realize you posted tongue-in-cheek, but I'm afraid that there are wey too many Bush-haters that really want a war to go badly.
--------------------------
Anything is possible, but I can't believe that anybody would rather like to see a huge civilian death toll because it would look bad for Bush. I can see I told you so, or Saddam grinning to himself, but to me it's just nut case conservatives projecting their won calous indifference to life on liberals. And I don't mean all conservatives, just the ones with those kinds of notions. We see in others what we hide about ourselves from ourselves. My magic mirror trick.
Moon, I really don't think there will be a huge civilian death toll, unless Saddam starts gassing his own cities. I'm quite sure that Saddam will claim that we are killing thousands of civilians, but I'm sure that the majority of us know he will be lying.
Thank you Phuz. At what point is the soldier given the choice that his/her Commander in Chief doesn't have his/her best interests in mind and makes the choice not to go to war without dire consequences? Your disrespect to the job that the soldier is doing right now is sickening. You're entitled to your opinion, no doubt about it, but you are in no place to judge the sacrifice of a soldier in the performance of his/her duties. If you had even half a clue as to the sacrifices soldiers are making right now, whether you agree with the person making those decisions or not, you'd not be so quick to pass judgment with such disdain. You are utterly disgusting to me along with some of the others that have made similar statements. I'm not asking that soldiers be held in some high regard as compared to anyone else, but at least understand that the job they do is one of the hardest that anyone could be asked to do. Very few jobs bring to bear one's ethics, morality, religious beliefs, human needs and judgment in such a compressed, heat induced environment as that that exists in wartime. To not understand that is ignorance, to disrespect that is vile.
I heard 800 cruise missles in two days. Later I saw 3000. Shock and awe? Doesn't sound like somebody's too worried about civilian casualties to me. But I think we are about to see.
Political goals of those in government do not always equate to protecting thier country.
I just want to add that I respect and fully support the people who have agreed to defend this country with thier lives if need be. But it does not mean I have to support the orders they follow, or the people that give them.
I think you're right. We are about to see.
You can't worry about civilian casualties, because they are inevitable, but we aren't just going to be launching missles into every home in Iraq. Nor are we going to unleash B-52's carpet bombing cities.
We will hit legitimate targets, and unfortunately, Saddam has put some of those in populated areas.
I know that if I was an Iraqi civilian and there was any kind of military facility nearby, I'd be going on vacation until this was all over.
I think the number is 3000 precision weapons. YOu will probably see more jdams that cruise missles. And they will not be put on civilian targets.
Drama.
My point wasn't weather or not a soldier agrees with their commanding officer. Its obvious they are serving their country, unconditionally. But the years of drafting are over. An individual joins the army, because THEY want to.
Again, drama. I don't have any disrespect for any soldier. Just because I don't salute them, or get teary seeing them go off to war, doesn't mean I disrespect them.
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