Iran is trying to spark something off...

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0marTheZealot

Golden Member
Apr 5, 2004
1,692
0
0
The flaming baiting that goes on between the same 3 or 4 people gets rather annoying.

Aimster, while you may feel that your version of Islam is more "correct", when one does not follow the tenets of his/her religion, it is much like presenting a fallacious arguement. Have you actually read the Qu'ran? There is a very tolerant message inside it, despite what you may think. Iranian mullahs are only enforcing bits and pieces they see fit.
 

Tarpon6

Member
May 22, 2002
144
0
0
:thumbsup: :thumbsup:

Originally posted by: RabidMongoose
Originally posted by: Aimster
I never thought anyone could be worse than an Iranian Mullah. But I was wrong. You're more extreme than the psychos running Iran.

Yup... :thumbsup:


 

Tarpon6

Member
May 22, 2002
144
0
0
No I just agree with what Aimster said. I have NO use for you. Goodbye. [flush]

Originally posted by: Sultan
Originally posted by: Aimster
I never thought anyone could be worse than an Iranian Mullah. But I was wrong. You're more extreme than the psychos running Iran.

Yup... :thumbsup:


[/quote]

a Rabid protege, hehe :)[/quote]

 

Sultan

Banned
Feb 21, 2002
2,297
1
0
Originally posted by: Tarpon6
No I just agree with what Aimster said. I have NO use for you. Goodbye. [flush]

Considering the Iranian government has now successfully produced a working missile with good range, and has an active nuclear development program despite American sanctions, I'll take Aimsters words as high praise :)
 

Aimster

Lifer
Jan 5, 2003
16,129
2
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Originally posted by: Sultan
Originally posted by: Aimster
Originally posted by: Sultan
Originally posted by: Aimster
Stop defending the government of Iran. Even Iranians speak out against such a government. You continue to agree with any government that has Islamic Law.
You do not force a religion on people.

I do not need to be in Iran to know people in Iran do not follow "their" religion. I have family there and they have friends and my girlfriend's family is there. Look at the Iranians in the U.S. You will hardly see any of them practicing Islam at all. Majority of Iranians live in CA. I don't ever think I've seen any Iranian women with a scarf on at any of the Iranian gatherings.

Obviously Iranians do not want Mullahs running their life. There are constant protest. Talk of a regime change.

My mom was raised in Iran. She never touched a Quran in her life. Same with her parents. Now you have these wackos forcing it on people. Thus you now have a bunch of people who don't like the religion because they are not free to make up their own mind.

Look back before Khormeni was in power. How many women did you see in the street covered up? HARDLY ANY.

Basically, the gist of this post is you, your family, and your girlfriend's family are horrible Muslims? :)

My version of Islam is 10000x better than your poop version if Islam that is destroying the world.

I never thought anyone could be worse than an Iranian Mullah. But I was wrong. You're more extreme than the psychos running Iran.

what verson would that be, when your mother hasnt even TOUCHED the Quran, the first source of Islamic Law? :)

Why does my mother have to be Muslim for me to be Muslim? Why must people be born a religion? Maybe in Judaism that is the case (?), but people are not born Muslim. If you wish to believe so then whatever. Nobody told me jack about religion and I learned it myself. I celebrate Christmas too which in your opinion probably makes me a horrible Muslim. (Yes I know what Christmas is. It's still Jesus and Jesus is an important part of Islam too. How many people actually celebrate Christmas for the real reason anyways. It's more for fun/family/love/great time).

Iran isn't extreme? When Germany came to play a soccer match against Iran, women were forbidden to enter the stadium. NOW they have banned long hair and facial hair for the soccer players because it is resembling the western players. Then in their defense for what they did, they said they are not against long hair because "prophet Mohammad had long hair". WTF? Prophet Mohammad probably ate with his fingers. Does this mean it is OK if I go to a restaurant and eat with my fingers? (Look I'm giving an example based on a wild guess that people didn't have spoons,forks back then).

Times have changed. The facts of reality hurt you and you hate it.

As for my family and my girlfriend's family comment, I'm sorry all Iranians are like this. Maybe not all. We do have psycho fanatical wackos around. The most obvious is the government of Iran. How many Iranians do you know? If a women wears a scarf and looks M.E you don't question if she is Arab/Iranian.. you assume she is Arab and you talk to them in Arabic. BECAUSE Iranians don't wear scarfs in the U.S. Maybe there are a few and those few are the minority and they live right here where I live. Their parents work for the Iranian Commerce which is directly tied to the government of Iran. So go figure.

My point is if Iranians do no want to be religious then you do not force it on them. Especially a religion that can be very extreme. If you wish to follow the extreme version the so be it. There will be a day when Muslims look back and slap themself in the face for allowing these psychos to run their life. It is already happening in Iran. in America 50-60 years ago women barely had any rights. Black people were treated horribly. Now we look back and we realize our mistakes. There will be a day when the M.E and you will be beat. When that day comes the world will be better. :)
 

MegaWorks

Diamond Member
Jan 26, 2004
3,819
1
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As an Iraqi Shiite I disagree completely with the way Iran as been treating its citizens. Islam doesn?t impose anyone to fellow its rules, the Iranian gov?t is doing the wrong way by forcing people to fellow its doctrine. Christian and Jewish Women in Iran are forced to wears the scarf, now that?s just wrong how can I force others to fellow the rules of my religion when I don?t want to fellow the rules of other ruling systems. Aimster is right about the way Iranians feel about Islam, I?ve been in Iran and Iranians are not really Islamists. They don?t practice Islam the way we do in Iraq, but you can see that they have some compassion for Islam. They love the history and art of this religion, they admire key figure leaders like our Prophet (PBUH) and Imam Ali and Hussein. Ok Even if an Iranian calls himself a ?Muslim? refuse to fellow the rules of the Koran, he?s responsible for his decision I?m not his prophet but I will advice him to fellow the Koran correctly.

One more thing about Iraq, I support the incoming elections in January and I?m confidant that the new Iraq will change the mid-east for the better. Our good leaders in Iraq will make sure that this election will be fair for every Iraqi citizen. But first we have to deal with the ba?aths and the wahhabies in Fallujah and other places in Iraq.

BTW Israel won?t be the only one that calls itself ?the only democracy? after January.
 

GreatBarracuda

Golden Member
Mar 1, 2004
1,135
0
0
Originally posted by: EagleKeeper
Clarify please?

Here is the clarification you ask for:

Link 1
Link 2
Link 3
Link 4
Link 5

The last link should be proof enough that behind the cloak of democracy, Israel is the most perverse nation in the middle east.

In the words of the first Israeli Prime Minister, Ben Gurion:

'The strategic objective was to destroy the urban community, which
were the most organised and politically conscious sections of the
Palestinian people. This was not done by house to house fighting
inside the towns and cities, but by the conquest and destruction
of the rural areas surrounding most of the towns.. Deprived of
transportation, food and raw materials, the urban communities
underwent a process of disintegration, chaos and hunger which
forced them to surrender.'

And here is a glimpse into the mind of the butcher of Sabra And Chatila:

"It is the duty of Israeli leaders to explain to public opinion, clearly and courageously, a certain number of facts that are forgotten with time. The first of these is that there is no Zionism, colonialization, or Jewish State without the eviction of the Arabs and the expropriation of their lands."
 

mwtgg

Lifer
Dec 6, 2001
10,491
0
0
Originally posted by: Sultan
Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken
Iran is a Muslim theocracy. The two are intertwined so it's bound to come up, and did.

Iran is a parlimentary democracy. Would you please stop spreading lies? They held elections just this year.

Lies? Look in the mirror before you go accusing others of spouting lies.

From the CIA World Factbook:

Government type: theocratic republic


Interesting...
 

bjc112

Lifer
Dec 23, 2000
11,460
0
76
Originally posted by: conjur
Originally posted by: Trente
Seems like Iran is begging for a blow...

They are gonna get it - sooner or later!
The moolahs are playing up as Kim Jong Il did a couple of years ago. They want attention. They just might get it in the way of an invasion force.

I agree with that.

And i don't think Israel will stand for it.
 

jpeyton

Moderator in SFF, Notebooks, Pre-Built/Barebones
Moderator
Aug 23, 2003
25,375
142
116
Iran first deployed the Shahab-3 to its Revolutionary Guards in 2003. Officials have repeatedly said in recent months they could use Shahab-3 to strike back at Israel should it try to attack its nuclear facilities.
 

Sultan

Banned
Feb 21, 2002
2,297
1
0
Why does my mother have to be Muslim for me to be Muslim? Why must people be born a religion? Maybe in Judaism that is the case (?), but people are not born Muslim. If you wish to believe so then whatever. Nobody told me jack about religion and I learned it myself. I celebrate Christmas too which in your opinion probably makes me a horrible Muslim. (Yes I know what Christmas is. It's still Jesus and Jesus is an important part of Islam too. How many people actually celebrate Christmas for the real reason anyways. It's more for fun/family/love/great time).

Iran isn't extreme? When Germany came to play a soccer match against Iran, women were forbidden to enter the stadium. NOW they have banned long hair and facial hair for the soccer players because it is resembling the western players. Then in their defense for what they did, they said they are not against long hair because "prophet Mohammad had long hair". WTF? Prophet Mohammad probably ate with his fingers. Does this mean it is OK if I go to a restaurant and eat with my fingers? (Look I'm giving an example based on a wild guess that people didn't have spoons,forks back then).

Times have changed. The facts of reality hurt you and you hate it.

As for my family and my girlfriend's family comment, I'm sorry all Iranians are like this. Maybe not all. We do have psycho fanatical wackos around. The most obvious is the government of Iran. How many Iranians do you know? If a women wears a scarf and looks M.E you don't question if she is Arab/Iranian.. you assume she is Arab and you talk to them in Arabic. BECAUSE Iranians don't wear scarfs in the U.S. Maybe there are a few and those few are the minority and they live right here where I live. Their parents work for the Iranian Commerce which is directly tied to the government of Iran. So go figure.

My point is if Iranians do no want to be religious then you do not force it on them. Especially a religion that can be very extreme. If you wish to follow the extreme version the so be it. There will be a day when Muslims look back and slap themself in the face for allowing these psychos to run their life. It is already happening in Iran. in America 50-60 years ago women barely had any rights. Black people were treated horribly. Now we look back and we realize our mistakes. There will be a day when the M.E and you will be beat. When that day comes the world will be better.

emm, first of all, your mother neednt be a Muslim for you to be a Muslim, and I never claimed as such. I asked you what "version" of Islam you followed. I only know of a single version of Islam which comes from the Quran. There are differing schools of thought, but only one single version of Islam.

If you learned Islam yourself, you are a poor student. Yes, observing Christmas is wrong according to Islam teachings. It doesnt make you a horrible Muslim, just one who does not know much about his religion.

I dont believe you can base extremes in Iran based on women not entering a soccer match. Iran is far from perfect, yet similar extremes exist here in the United States such as the the Patriot Act, gay marriage, abortion issues. The government controls these issues here, and the Iranian government has full rights to formulate laws which it thinks is in the best interest of the country.

It is Sunnah to eat with your hands. It is not obligatory. You can choose to do so if you wish. There is no obligation. I eat with a spoon and a fork as well. I have no idea about the long hair issue. I have not read any such report and therefore cannot comment.

Times have changed but values dont change.

I just came back from the mosque right now after offering prayers for Lailatul Qadr. I meet many Iranians in the mosque. I am sorry but all Iranians are not like how you claim to be.

All your claims are hypothesis. You will obviously mingle with people who suit your lifestyle. However, a majority of Iranians differ from your lifestyle and therefore the government of Iran still stands. Just a few decades ago, the Iranians themselves fought for a change and a revolution came about and this system of governance came to power. That in itself is proof that they DO want to be religious.

If they are so fed up with the current system, another revoltution would come. Since any such a thing has not happened, all I can say is you are wrong. When it comes, I will agree with you.
 

Sultan

Banned
Feb 21, 2002
2,297
1
0
Originally posted by: mwtgg
Originally posted by: Sultan
Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken
Iran is a Muslim theocracy. The two are intertwined so it's bound to come up, and did.

Iran is a parlimentary democracy. Would you please stop spreading lies? They held elections just this year.

Lies? Look in the mirror before you go accusing others of spouting lies.

From the CIA World Factbook:

Government type: theocratic republic


Interesting...

hehe, very interesting source. Here is where it says Iran practices democracy...

BBC Link

Here's another entry from Wikipedia:

The head of state is the president, elected by universal suffrage to a 4-year term by an absolute majority of votes and supervises the affairs of the executive branch. All presidential candidates must be approved by the Council prior to running. After his election, the president appoints and supervises the Council of Ministers (the cabinet), coordinates government decisions, and selects government policies to be placed before the parliament. The Council of Guardians certifies the competence of candidates for the presidency and the parliament.

Now how that translates to theocracy is beyond me. Only our government which associates Iran as an Axis of Evil can translate a parlimentary form of government to theocracy :)
 

Aegeon

Golden Member
Nov 2, 2004
1,809
125
106
Originally posted by: Sultan
Now how that translates to theocracy is beyond me. Only our government which associates Iran as an Axis of Evil can translate a parlimentary form of government to theocracy :)
This is called not bothering to look at the ramifications. The Council of Guardians can prevent any candidate from running, and the Council of Guardians is not elected or really under the control of the voters in any way. In the last election, the Council of Guardian didn't allow a large portion of the Reformist members of the Parliment to run, including a substancial number of people who were already members of Parliment and merely up for re-election! The voters can only vote for people the Council of Guardians find acceptable, which generally means that people who want to reform the system get prevented from running.

The Council of Guardians can also veto ANY measure taken by Parliment, and there is no override mechanism. This means that parliment only can do anything if the Council of Guardians allows it. I believe the Council of Guardians can also override any Presidential decisions. You're looking at a system where the Council of Guardians has all the ultimate power as the government is currently set up.
 

Sultan

Banned
Feb 21, 2002
2,297
1
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Originally posted by: Aegeon
Originally posted by: Sultan
Now how that translates to theocracy is beyond me. Only our government which associates Iran as an Axis of Evil can translate a parlimentary form of government to theocracy :)
This is called not bothering to look at the ramifications. The Council of Guardians can prevent any candidate from running, and the Council of Guardians is not elected or really under the control of the voters in any way. In the last election, the Council of Guardian didn't allow a large portion of the Reformist members of the Parliment to run, including a substancial number of people who were already members of Parliment and merely up for re-election! The voters can only vote for people the Council of Guardians find acceptable, which generally means that people who want to reform the system get prevented from running.

The Council of Guardians can also veto ANY measure taken by Parliment, and there is no override mechanism. This means that parliment only can do anything if the Council of Guardians allows it. I believe the Council of Guardians can also override any Presidential decisions. You're looking at a system where the Council of Guardians has all the ultimate power as the government is currently set up.

I have addressed this point above. The courts barred Nader from running in many states. The Council of Gaurdians have to legally challenge candidates from running. The Council of Gaurdians is appointed, as is the Supreme Court here. So why do you have a problem with them? The ruling to bar candidates was overturned and most were allowed to contest.

Veto does exist and you are right in that point. Override mechanism may not exist, but that is how the constitution is drafted and far be it you or I telling any other nation how they should formulate their constitution. If the Iranians have a problem, they can very well initiate a new revolution.

 

Aegeon

Golden Member
Nov 2, 2004
1,809
125
106
Originally posted by: Sultan
I have addressed this point above. The courts barred Nader from running in many states. The Council of Gaurdians have to legally challenge candidates from running. The Council of Gaurdians is appointed, as is the Supreme Court here. So why do you have a problem with them? The ruling to bar candidates was overturned and most were allowed to contest.

Veto does exist and you are right in that point. Override mechanism may not exist, but that is how the constitution is drafted and far be it you or I telling any other nation how they should formulate their constitution. If the Iranians have a problem, they can very well initiate a new revolution.
You're making an idiodic argument. Nadar was not actually barred from running anywhere to the best of my knowledge, people could still send in a write in vote for him. Furthermore he wasn't banned for political views, but failing to perform the required steps for getting listed on the ballot in many states. If he needed a certain registered voters to sign his petition and it turns out too many of the signatures were bogus, he's off the ballot for failing to meet that criteria. Ultimately the vitally important point though is that the judges are accountable to the people and the democratic system. They can be impeached at any time if they make sufficiently outragious decisions and they are either selected and nominated by democraticly elected representatives of the people, or by direct election in all cases. The Council of Guardians members can't be impeached under any circumstances, nor are they selected by the people or their elected representatives. The Council of Guardians themselves selects who is added to the council when older members either die or resign. Saying the Council of Guardians is appointed may be technically true, but who is appointing them really matters!

Arguing that if the Iranian are not happy with the fact the Council of Guardians has all the true power, their only recourse is revolution, shows the failure of their current system of government. Such a situation is the ultimate proof that their system can't be considered a true democratic system.