Iran is trying to spark something off...

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Alistar7

Lifer
May 13, 2002
11,978
0
0
Originally posted by: GreatBarracuda
Originally posted by: cKGunslinger
Originally posted by: phillyTIM
This is great news! Finally, someone with some power to stand up to Bush's tyranny! Rock on, Iran!

The notion that any country could stand up to us and/or our allies sucsessfully is laughable. The majority of these nations weapons and technology come from us, and do you really believe we give them the *good* stuff? ;)

Yeah! What can you expect from Americans?

You can expect to be always be free as long as America is still here, without paying a dime, BTW your welcome Canada, thanks for being as gratefull as some EU countries we saved a couple of times.....
 

b0mbrman

Lifer
Jun 1, 2001
29,470
1
81
Originally posted by: Alistar7
Originally posted by: GreatBarracuda
Originally posted by: cKGunslinger
Originally posted by: phillyTIM
This is great news! Finally, someone with some power to stand up to Bush's tyranny! Rock on, Iran!

The notion that any country could stand up to us and/or our allies sucsessfully is laughable. The majority of these nations weapons and technology come from us, and do you really believe we give them the *good* stuff? ;)

Yeah! What can you expect from Americans?

You can expect to be always be free as long as America is still here, without paying a dime, BTW your welcome Canada, thanks for being as gratefull as some EU countries we saved a couple of times.....
Why should Canada be thankful? Canada has always had the might to repel any attack through its history.
 

cKGunslinger

Lifer
Nov 29, 1999
16,408
57
91
Originally posted by: b0mbrman
Originally posted by: Alistar7
Originally posted by: GreatBarracuda
Originally posted by: cKGunslinger
Originally posted by: phillyTIM
This is great news! Finally, someone with some power to stand up to Bush's tyranny! Rock on, Iran!

The notion that any country could stand up to us and/or our allies sucsessfully is laughable. The majority of these nations weapons and technology come from us, and do you really believe we give them the *good* stuff? ;)

Yeah! What can you expect from Americans?

You can expect to be always be free as long as America is still here, without paying a dime, BTW your welcome Canada, thanks for being as gratefull as some EU countries we saved a couple of times.....
Why should Canada be thankful? Canada has always had the might to repel any attack through its history.

They do have that tank! ;)
 

0marTheZealot

Golden Member
Apr 5, 2004
1,692
0
0
So is this America's new foreign policy? Attack anyone with any sort of military? AFAIK, Iran is not violating any internation treaties at this moment. In the pre-emptive doctrine, everyone is a potential target. How is this good for global security?

Take off your hate goggles and observe what is happening. How can anyone support a pre-emptive war against a nation that has not made any hostile moves against us? In fact, Iran helps us in many ways; they have captured many senior Al-Qaeda figures, they provide millions of barrels of oil and wounded Americans were flown into Iran during the Afghanistan War. I don't see what a country has to do to not be a threat to America. It seems that this government has gone positively psychotic; maneuvaring towards war at every turn. Unfortunately for Mr. Bush, the world is not as white and black as he paints it to be. Iran has its own national security in mind.

And let us remember that Iran has not stated it will get nuclear weapons, she simply wishes to enrich uranium for nuclear fuel. Providing clean and efficent fuel for her population is hardly evil. Several Mullahs have stated that nuclear weapons are un-islamic and that Iran will not try/make nuclear weapons. While it may be wishful thinking on my part, they should have the benefit of the doubt. The racist overtones going on in the EU/UN have turned off the Iranians to making a deal. Much like how Turkey is hestitated upon as a EU potential member, Iran is facing some of the same backlash and hostility. The West can not stand to see a strong Islamic country (not that Iran is close to being strong in a regional sense).

Israel has violated more UN resolutions, has had regional ambitions and is the only recipiant of US aid who also possess WMDs. We have a [hypocritical] policy of not providing aid to countries that possess WMDs.

So again, why are we beating the drums to war; even after the "disaster" that is Iraq (I don't think its that terrible, it is simply war). How is war amenable to global stability, something that we laud every day. We chastize other leaders for going to war or engaging in hostility, but we do the same thing when no one is looking and now, we have taken a dangerous step in commencing hostilities openly. Other Iran's nuclear fuel wishes, what other grievances do we harbor against her? Islamic terrorists? Everyone apparently has Al-Qaeda elements in their countries. Regional ambitions? Last I checked, a US installed dictator started two wars, hint: his name started with S and ended with addam Hussein. Iran hasn't started a war this century, unless you count the funding of Hezbollah/Hamas against Israel. Even in that case, there isn't open hostilities like there were in Vietnam, WWII etc etc.

I simply don't see a rational case for war, other than hydrocarbon depletion and securing a source of energy. Iran has just as much or more, depending on whose numbers one uses, oil as Iraq. And Iran also has vast reserves of natural gas as well. So have we become the bully on the playground who steals other's lunchmoney or their backpacks? What an unflattering picture of America. Of course, rationality does not need to play a part in the decision making of the President and his cabinet.
 

CycloWizard

Lifer
Sep 10, 2001
12,348
1
81
Omar, I think we need to look critically at Iran not because they're necessarily a direct threat to us, but because their hatred of Israel could have dire consequences if allowed to propagate or take root. I'm not saying invade, but steps need to be taken to prevent someone from nuking Israel, for example. The escalation that would result from such an action would make an invasion of Iran look like a walk in the park.
 

0marTheZealot

Golden Member
Apr 5, 2004
1,692
0
0
Yes, I do agree that nuclear weapons in use would be dire. I don't think most of the Mullahs are willing to die for a belief like nuking Israel. Contary to what the media portrays, most Muslims do value life and actually do enjoy it from time to time.

I think multi-lateral engagement would be better than this good-cop (EU) bad-cop (US) schtick going on.
 

GreatBarracuda

Golden Member
Mar 1, 2004
1,135
0
0
Originally posted by: CycloWizard
Omar, I think we need to look critically at Iran not because they're necessarily a direct threat to us, but because their hatred of Israel could have dire consequences if allowed to propagate or take root. I'm not saying invade, but steps need to be taken to prevent someone from nuking Israel, for example. The escalation that would result from such an action would make an invasion of Iran look like a walk in the park.

Why is it so important to protect Israel? If anything, it's the rogue nation of the Middle East. Possessing, most likely, more nuclear weapons than Iran and North Korea combined, it is the greatest threat to peace in the Middle East, being led by a group of extremist zionists.
 

CycloWizard

Lifer
Sep 10, 2001
12,348
1
81
Originally posted by: GreatBarracuda
Originally posted by: CycloWizard
Omar, I think we need to look critically at Iran not because they're necessarily a direct threat to us, but because their hatred of Israel could have dire consequences if allowed to propagate or take root. I'm not saying invade, but steps need to be taken to prevent someone from nuking Israel, for example. The escalation that would result from such an action would make an invasion of Iran look like a walk in the park.

Why is it so important to protect Israel? If anything, it's the rogue nation of the Middle East. Possessing, most likely, more nuclear weapons than Iran and North Korea combined, it is the greatest threat to peace in the Middle East, being led by a group of extremist zionists.
I said it in the exact same post you quoted: because if anyone nukes anyone, escalation WILL occur. It doesn't matter if we nuke someone, if Iran nukes someone, or if Israel nukes someone. The result will be catastrophic.
 

dahunan

Lifer
Jan 10, 2002
18,191
3
0
Originally posted by: b0mbrman
Originally posted by: dahunan
GEE.. WHICH NATION was more of a credible threat?
Why are you so hell-bent on invading Iran? :(

Warmonger

:D

I prefer open negotiations and strong defense... Look at what killed the USSR/Cold War .. Did we attack anyone to win the Cold War?
 

dahunan

Lifer
Jan 10, 2002
18,191
3
0
Why do people NOT believe that Muslims want to DEFEND thmselves? Are you TOLD to believe that Muslim countries only want to ATTACK others?
 

Trente

Golden Member
Apr 19, 2003
1,750
0
0
Originally posted by: GreatBarracuda
Originally posted by: CycloWizard
Omar, I think we need to look critically at Iran not because they're necessarily a direct threat to us, but because their hatred of Israel could have dire consequences if allowed to propagate or take root. I'm not saying invade, but steps need to be taken to prevent someone from nuking Israel, for example. The escalation that would result from such an action would make an invasion of Iran look like a walk in the park.

Why is it so important to protect Israel? If anything, it's the rogue nation of the Middle East. Possessing, most likely, more nuclear weapons than Iran and North Korea combined, it is the greatest threat to peace in the Middle East, being led by a group of extremist zionists.

BS. :thumbsdown:

If you did have a clue in this issue, you'd know that from ALL the states in the ME, Israel is probably the most sane, democratic and moderate of all - there no fear it would use WMD unless facing destruction. It has also never seeked the total destruction of the nations and people around it unlike Iran, Iraq, Syria and the list goes on...

Israel is the last nation in the ME you can actually relate those things to!
 
Sep 12, 2004
16,852
59
86
Originally posted by: 0marTheZealot
Yes, I do agree that nuclear weapons in use would be dire. I don't think most of the Mullahs are willing to die for a belief like nuking Israel. Contary to what the media portrays, most Muslims do value life and actually do enjoy it from time to time.

I think multi-lateral engagement would be better than this good-cop (EU) bad-cop (US) schtick going on.
"Most" Muslims are not the problem. It's those few in a position of power who are just crazy enough to press the button or fly airplanes into buildings.

 

Sultan

Banned
Feb 21, 2002
2,297
1
0
How did Iran possessing Missiles turn into a Muslim issue in this thread??? Specially when Israel possessing nuclear weapons is NOT a Jewish issue, rather thats also a Muslim issue, justification given that Israel needs to "protect" itself :roll: as if the neighboring nations have any chance against Israel's conventional superiority
 

Aimster

Lifer
Jan 5, 2003
16,129
2
0
Iran will not attack Israel. They might give guns and ammo to Hezbollah, but their missles will never be used against Israel unless there is a war. Iran wouldn't want to start a war with Israel and I am sure Israel does not want to start a war with Iran. Israel attacked Iraq because Iraq was not able to attack them back. Iran is very capable of attacking Israel and doing serious damage (Israel is not that large). Israel does have a superior army. Same goes for NK vs SK. South Korean army is superior to that of North Korea, but the damage North Korea could cause is not worth a war.

This whole U.S can kick Iran's butt is obvious. U.S can destroy the world with our military. However, Iran is no easy victory and thousands of troops will be lost. Missles/Aircraft can only do so much. Ground forces are where wars are won. Our tanks might be superior to the Russian tanks Iran has, but any army going against an army of 500,000-1,000,000 is going to have serious deaths. I am sure Iran learned from Iraq that you do not go into open desert to fight U.S forces. Iraq didn't seem to learn even after the first Gulf War and sent their tanks right in the open for U.S jets to bomb. Iran also has a lot less desert than Iraq. Iran's population is 3-4x that of Iraq. Their GDP is 25-30x more than Iraq.

Iran is a large country. Israel/U.S will just bruise it if they just use missles/air. Iran will fire right back at you. The only way to go at Iran is by using ground troops.

Also note that the rest of the world has contacts/relations with Iran. Only U.S/Israel refuse to have any contacts and label Iran as a terrorist country. Britain might be our closest ally, but members of the royal family and even the PM have been to Tehran or have had direct contacts with them.

Iraqi Soldiers did not fight for their country. There was nothing to fight for. Saddam only gave to 30% of the country. Even then, how much could Saddam give to 30% of the country when there was nothing to give. Iraqi economy was destroyed and had been for a long time. The people in Iran might dislike their regime, but it does not effect their daily life. Just like me, I hate Bush. That doesn't change how I live or what I can do. Once U.S soldiers attack Iran then you will see a lot more people fighting for their country and willing to die. The regime right now is losing power. Any attack on Iran by the U.S will only make the regime stronger. The people in Iran have their food, have their cars, have electricy, have running water, have computers, have cell phones. People in Iraq had nothing because Saddam took everything from them.
 

Sultan

Banned
Feb 21, 2002
2,297
1
0
Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken
Iran is a Muslim theocracy. The two are intertwined so it's bound to come up, and did.

Iran is a parlimentary democracy. Would you please stop spreading lies? They held elections just this year.
 

Red Dawn

Elite Member
Jun 4, 2001
57,529
3
0
Originally posted by: Sultan
Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken
Iran is a Muslim theocracy. The two are intertwined so it's bound to come up, and did.

Iran is a parlimentary democracy. Would you please stop spreading lies? They held elections just this year.
After the Mullahs disqualified anybody who wasn't in line with their fanatical beliefs
 

Aimster

Lifer
Jan 5, 2003
16,129
2
0
Originally posted by: Red Dawn
Originally posted by: Sultan
Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken
Iran is a Muslim theocracy. The two are intertwined so it's bound to come up, and did.

Iran is a parlimentary democracy. Would you please stop spreading lies? They held elections just this year.
After the Mullahs disqualified anybody who wasn't in line with their fanatical beliefs

There was this one Mullah was supposed to be the succesor after Khormeni. However, he wasn't. He had some views that were totally against what Khormeni stood for. He wanted no religion forced on the people and said forcing it will make the people go against it. They couldn't kill him because he is an important person for Shia Muslims. So he was locked up in his house for decades so he wouldn't be allowed to speak. He is free now and he talks here and there, but it's too late to make a difference. He doesn't have power.
 

Aimster

Lifer
Jan 5, 2003
16,129
2
0
Iran is controlled by one man. He is the richest Mullah. He is said to have billions of dollars and his sons have casinos in Las Vegas. He obviously stole that money from the Iranian people, but he claims it belongs to his family.

Anyways, Iran has a Reform Party. Their goal is reshape the country. The President of Iran was elected and he was part of the party. Iran has a Congress and the majority of the people elected were Reform Party members. Every single effort by the President and the Congress that went against the head Mullah's belief system was struck down. He has the power to say F-U to anyone and he has been doing it. The President could not deliver what he wanted (He wanted to get rid of Islamic Laws, give freedom to women, make Iran more like the West.)

The Reform party promised change, but could not deliver because the head Mullah kept saying no. Relection came up and guess what... Those memebers in congress who were part of the reform party could not run for relection. WHY? Supposedly their values did not help Islam and would destroy the country. They protested and did a sit-in. Didn't help and they couldn't run. The Reform party lost because they were not on the ballot and the Mullahs chanted how the country was going back to its Islamic roots (BS).

The Vice President quit last month because he couldn't work with extremist fanaticals. Everything he wanted to do was striked down. What was the point of even being a President if you cannot do change?

Stuff like this pissing the people off. The people they elect cannot do what they promised because the Religious Mullahs have the power. Things like this lead to regime change.
 

Sultan

Banned
Feb 21, 2002
2,297
1
0
Originally posted by: Red Dawn
Originally posted by: Sultan
Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken
Iran is a Muslim theocracy. The two are intertwined so it's bound to come up, and did.

Iran is a parlimentary democracy. Would you please stop spreading lies? They held elections just this year.
After the Mullahs disqualified anybody who wasn't in line with their fanatical beliefs

most of whom were reinstated after the Ayatollah called for a review. continue spreading false information and lies and continue to live in fear and hatred :)
 

Sultan

Banned
Feb 21, 2002
2,297
1
0
Originally posted by: Aimster
Originally posted by: Red Dawn
Originally posted by: Sultan
Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken
Iran is a Muslim theocracy. The two are intertwined so it's bound to come up, and did.

Iran is a parlimentary democracy. Would you please stop spreading lies? They held elections just this year.
After the Mullahs disqualified anybody who wasn't in line with their fanatical beliefs

There was this one Mullah was supposed to be the succesor after Khormeni. However, he wasn't. He had some views that were totally against what Khormeni stood for. He wanted no religion forced on the people and said forcing it will make the people go against it. They couldn't kill him because he is an important person for Shia Muslims. So he was locked up in his house for decades so he wouldn't be allowed to speak. He is free now and he talks here and there, but it's too late to make a difference. He doesn't have power.

And there was this princess who married a handsome prince and they lived happily ever after... :)
 

rickn

Diamond Member
Oct 15, 1999
7,064
0
0
Originally posted by: Red Dawn
Originally posted by: Sultan
Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken
Iran is a Muslim theocracy. The two are intertwined so it's bound to come up, and did.

Iran is a parlimentary democracy. Would you please stop spreading lies? They held elections just this year.
After the Mullahs disqualified anybody who wasn't in line with their fanatical beliefs

almost sounds like what america is turning into, but we call them President and Supreme Court justices instead
 

Aimster

Lifer
Jan 5, 2003
16,129
2
0
Originally posted by: Sultan
Originally posted by: Aimster
Originally posted by: Red Dawn
Originally posted by: Sultan
Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken
Iran is a Muslim theocracy. The two are intertwined so it's bound to come up, and did.

Iran is a parlimentary democracy. Would you please stop spreading lies? They held elections just this year.
After the Mullahs disqualified anybody who wasn't in line with their fanatical beliefs

There was this one Mullah was supposed to be the succesor after Khormeni. However, he wasn't. He had some views that were totally against what Khormeni stood for. He wanted no religion forced on the people and said forcing it will make the people go against it. They couldn't kill him because he is an important person for Shia Muslims. So he was locked up in his house for decades so he wouldn't be allowed to speak. He is free now and he talks here and there, but it's too late to make a difference. He doesn't have power.

And there was this princess who married a handsome prince and they lived happily ever after... :)

Let me guess Sultan .. you agree with the Islamic Laws forced on the people in Iran.
 
Sep 12, 2004
16,852
59
86
Originally posted by: Sultan
Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken
Iran is a Muslim theocracy. The two are intertwined so it's bound to come up, and did.

Iran is a parlimentary democracy. Would you please stop spreading lies? They held elections just this year.
"parlimentary democracy."

You can call a dinosaur turd a coprolite too, but ultimately it's still little more than a big, petrified turd.