Intels in trouble..

[Fx1]

Lets see for Q4/12 We reported 2.5 billion in profit. I dont know about the rest of you but it seems to me that we are doing OK.

Today your making profit because you dont have any real competition in the x86 market .... Yet.

Crysis 3 benchmarks just dropped and AMD 8 core CPU is just as good as your 3770k.

You dont have a GPU worth crap and your integrated GPU cant even handle basic 3D games yet.

Your mobile division keeps claiming its next big thing will be the ARM killer and it never is and Qualcomm and Samsung are both developing serious ARM based solutions that you cant compete with yet.

The market is moving to cheap CPU solutions and eventually that 2.5bln in profit is going to be harder to make when people refuse to pay your prices for CPU's

In fact your entire business is built upon maintaining high margins on x86 desktop and laptop parts.

So with the move to AMD based consoles how much longer do you think Gamers will want to pay 400-700$ for an intel CPU?

OH and BTW that paid for review Anand did for your mobile chip vs the Tegra 4 was more of a desperate attempt to try and sway peoples opinions on intel mobile chips. Qualcomm launched 2 series of CPU's in the time it took you to get 1 Atom out the door. That Atom doesnt even compete with Samsungs Exynos which was surpassed by the S4 Pro and now the S4 600/900...

 

[zsdersw]

No, but you should be aware that the mods take a dim view of "fanboy" accusations in this room.

I know... and don't care. I rarely bother with the CPU forum anymore these days.

 

[ShintaiDK]

Crysis 3 benchmarks just dropped and AMD 8 core CPU is just as good as your 3770k.

I removed the rest of your rant.

But for Crysis 3. Its odd that there is so huge difference between actual MP play and benchmark dont you think? Not to mention the wast underutilized cores. Yet the game still scales with more cores? It looks like a rerun of Dirt. Payed PR.

 

[slayernine]

Today your making profit because you dont have any real competition in the x86 market .... Yet.

Crysis 3 benchmarks just dropped and AMD 8 core CPU is just as good as your 3770k.

You dont have a GPU worth crap and your integrated GPU cant even handle basic 3D games yet.
...

...
So with the move to AMD based consoles how much longer do you think Gamers will want to pay 400-700$ for an intel CPU?

Gamers spend money on expensive video cards. Even if AMD has better performance per dollar, Intel processors will still be better at everything else. Also Intel processors will produce less heat and consume less power than AMD. Also who spends $400-700 on a CPU? More like $200-300 for most gaming systems I've built for myself and friends. You forget that if Intel needs to they could afford to sell things at much lower margins for a couple years if they need to crush the competition. Hell Intel could sell things at a loss and just sit on their giant pile of money while everyone else goes broke trying to be price competitive.

 

[NTMBK]

Crysis 3 benchmarks just dropped and AMD 8 core CPU is just as good as your 3770k.

More threads is certainly the way of the future, but if things look like they're getting bad Intel can do some aggressive price adjustments. They have big margins to eat into, AMD don't.

You dont have a GPU worth crap and your integrated GPU cant even handle basic 3D games yet.

Intel's GPU has been improving rapidly over the past few generations. Very rapidly. Haswell may see their top end one catch up to AMD.

Your mobile division keeps claiming its next big thing will be the ARM killer and it never is and Qualcomm and Samsung are both developing serious ARM based solutions that you cant compete with yet.

Intel are finally bringing out an up to date Atom late this year, with 22nm, out of order, quad core.

The market is moving to cheap CPU solutions and eventually that 2.5bln in profit is going to be harder to make when people refuse to pay your prices for CPU's

For the cheap and cheerful market, there'll be an updated Atom. Same as netbook days.

So with the move to AMD based consoles how much longer do you think Gamers will want to pay 400-700$ for an intel CPU?

On Newegg an i5-3570k is $229.99.

 

[Charles Kozierok]

I know... and don't care. I rarely bother with the CPU forum anymore these days.

If that's all you have to contribute, and you don't care, maybe you should change "rarely" to "never" for everyone's sake.

Crysis 3 benchmarks just dropped and AMD 8 core CPU is just as good as your 3770k.

Link please?

You dont have a GPU worth crap and your integrated GPU cant even handle basic 3D games yet.

The integrated GPU isn't designed to handle 3D games. It's designed for non-gaming use.

And it will improve.

Your mobile division keeps claiming its next big thing will be the ARM killer and it never is and Qualcomm and Samsung are both developing serious ARM based solutions that you cant compete with yet.

You said "2-7 years". Now you're talking about today. Which is it?

In fact your entire business is built upon maintaining high margins on x86 desktop and laptop parts.

There are these things called "servers". Intel completely dominates that market, and gets its highest profit margins there.

Do you know what goes hand in hand with a decline in desktops/notebooks and a rise in tablets/smartphones? More demand for servers.

AMD was once competitive there. Now they've been all but shut out of the market. It's a major reason they are in financial trouble, but nobody talks about it.

So with the move to AMD based consoles how much longer do you think Gamers will want to pay 400-700$ for an intel CPU?

They don't have to pay that even now, and you know it.

We've been hearing about consoles killing PC gaming since... the first console. I don't see many people who like PC gaming moving to consoles. Personally, I detest everything about consoles.

 

[Fx1]

I removed the rest of your rant.

But for Crysis 3. Its odd that there is so huge difference between actual MP play and benchmark dont you think? Not to mention the wast underutilized cores. Yet the game still scales with more cores? It looks like a rerun of Dirt. Payed PR.

Trust me i have no real care for who "wins" in fact im enjoying the Smartphone market 100x more than the desktop one because every 3 months a new chip lands in a new phone and its even better than the last.

Competition is healthy and its GOOD to be a consumer.

Intel has dominated x86 for years and its awful. Todays Ivybridge is no better than my i7 950 and i have a feeling Haswell wont be much better either.

Do i want AMD to win? No more than i want intel to fail.

What i want is AMD to restore balance to this market so we all win.

I think this next chapter for AMD could be a good time for AMD to catch up given all games are now AMD games.

 

[NTMBK]

The integrated GPU isn't designed to handle 3D games. It's designed for non-gaming use.

And it will improve.

Intel should probably stop running game demos then

http://www.anandtech.com/show/6600/...rformance-compared-to-nvidias-geforce-gt-650m

 

[meloz]

1. A Company with Gross Profit Margins > 55%.
   
2. A company in trouble.

Choose one. Choose one wisely.

The weird thing is, what we see today is Intel at its weakest. Which is a direct result of letting the Atom and their GPU programs stagnate. But they have taken corrective steps, and new generation of Atoms should dominate the low power (sub-watt to 5 watt) segment within 2-3 years, maximum.

It is just that there is always this lag between the decision taken at top levels of a huge company like Intel and new products rolling out. The seeds for current underperformance in low-power segment were sown 4-5 years ago, not yesterday.

I would agree though that Intel's traditional > 50% margin model is under threat and ultimately unsustainable, and as a consumer I heartily welcome that because I want the best bang / buck.

If more performance / $ with future Atoms means Intel gets into "trouble" with lowly margins of 25%, why would anyone care. Merely typing that sentence is surreal, because most ARM players today would be glad to raise their margins to 25% level....

How much trouble -actual trouble this time- will the current ARM titans be in 2-3 years when Intel actually have a competitive Atom SoC and steal the top-end of the market? I am more concerned for them than Intel, frankly.

 

[Idontcare]

Forum reader logic.

Healthy company making a profit is "in trouble"
Company hemorrhaging cash and far in the red is the strong one....

The FUD is strong with this troll thread.

That is a pretty good summation and QED for the thread.

 

[FridayThe13th]

Trust me i have no real care for who "wins" in fact im enjoying the Smartphone market 100x more than the desktop one because every 3 months a new chip lands in a new phone and its even better than the last.

Competition is healthy and its GOOD to be a consumer.

Intel has dominated x86 for years and its awful. Todays Ivybridge is no better than my i7 950 and i have a feeling Haswell wont be much better either.

Do i want AMD to win? No more than i want intel to fail.

What i want is AMD to restore balance to this market so we all win.

I think this next chapter for AMD could be a good time for AMD to catch up given all games are now AMD games.

so you seem to think amd will be "catching up" while intel sits on the sidewalk and watches?

You dont care about smartphones but were trying to use it as part of your argument?

Intel should probably stop running game demos then

[URL="http://www.anandtech.com/show/6600/intel-haswell-gt3e-gpu-performance-compared-to-nvidias-geforce-gt-650m"]http://www.anandtech.com/show/6600/intel-haswell-gt3e-gpu-performance-compared-to-nvidias-geforce-gt-650m[/URL]

hahaha nice, yeah i bet AMD executives use i7's in their pc's as well

 

[ShintaiDK]

Trust me i have no real care for who "wins" in fact im enjoying the Smartphone market 100x more than the desktop one because every 3 months a new chip lands in a new phone and its even better than the last.

Competition is healthy and its GOOD to be a consumer.

Intel has dominated x86 for years and its awful. Todays Ivybridge is no better than my i7 950 and i have a feeling Haswell wont be much better either.

Do i want AMD to win? No more than i want intel to fail.

What i want is AMD to restore balance to this market so we all win.

I think this next chapter for AMD could be a good time for AMD to catch up given all games are now AMD games.

Games still dont have anything to do with Intel. Its nVidia.

And for your i7 950 vs i7 3770K.
http://www.anandtech.com/bench/Product/100?vs=551

Its not really going too well for you.

 

[zsdersw]

What i want is AMD to restore balance to this market so we all win.

What, exactly, does "restore balance" mean? 50/50 (+/- 5%) marketshare split between AMD and Intel? Good luck with that... AMD doesn't have the capacity to supply that much of the market, and is dependent on companies with fabs.

 

[Charles Kozierok]

Intel should probably stop running game demos then

I agree, they should.

I mean, there's gaming and then there's gaming. People game on smartphones, so there's certainly some market for Haswell. But I don't think Intel is under any illusion that they're ready to tackle discrete GPUs for serious 3D gaming yet.

Thing is -- most people don't really care about that.

 

[JM Popaleetus]

What?

The fact that Intel is currently the only company on the planet who can execute their planned die shrinks, all while AMD is stuck at 28nm... Intel is doing just fine.

You're also selectively forgetting that AMD/ATI provided the GPU architecture for the Xbox 360 which hasn't seemed to affect nVidia much.

 

[FridayThe13th]

Advanced Micro Devices, Inc.
NYSE: AMD - Feb 22 10:34am ET
2.58-0.02‎ (-0.77%&#8206
Open 2.64
High 2.67
Low 2.57
Volume 8,066,140
Avg Vol 22,061,000
Mkt Cap 1.84B

Intel Corporation
NASDAQ: INTC - Feb 22 10:34am ET
20.26+0.01‎ (0.05%&#8206
Open 20.32
High 20.41
Low 20.10

Volume 9,457,145
Avg Vol 49,798,000
Mkt Cap 100.20B

 

[slayernine]

Margins > 55%. Trouble.

Choose one.

I think it is really amazing that Intel has held on to such high margins for so long in what has always been a market with some amount of competition where the price is expected to fall year after year.

However I think their executives understand basic economics and will adjust prices to the market.

 

[Fx1]

If that's all you have to contribute, and you don't care, maybe you should change "rarely" to "never" for everyone's sake.



Link please?



The integrated GPU isn't designed to handle 3D games. It's designed for non-gaming use.

And it will improve.



You said "2-7 years". Now you're talking about today. Which is it?



There are these things called "servers". Intel completely dominates that market, and gets its highest profit margins there.

Do you know what goes hand in hand with a decline in desktops/notebooks and a rise in tablets/smartphones? More demand for servers.

AMD was once competitive there. Now they've been all but shut out of the market.



They don't have to pay that even now, and you know it.

We've been hearing about consoles killing PC gaming since... the first console. I don't see many people who like PC gaming moving to consoles. Personally, I detest everything about consoles.

Sorry my quoting skills arent up to your standard so ill try and answer your posts.

Today the smartphone and tablet market is a concern for intel and i believe the next 2-7 years will get worse for intel in x86 also. For the reasons i already posted.

On the server side you have me there and maybe intel might become the next IBM? who knows.

But last time i checked ARM is also making moves into servers and the low power and cost of ARM chips might be the perfect answer to the server space?

Intel is getting chunks bitten from all sides lately and it has let people make serious roads into Gaming and Mobile markets.

As soon as someone comes out with a gaming CPU that matches intels offering for less $$ then how will intel maintain its stranglehold on the desktop market?

With AMD games comes AMD performance advantages and lets hope Crysis 3 is the first! Also thats not even next gen for consoles

 

[Fx1]

Games still dont have anything to do with Intel. Its nVidia.

And for your i7 950 vs i7 3770K.
http://www.anandtech.com/bench/Product/100?vs=551

Its not really going too well for you.

i am referring to gaming benchmarks since thats all that matters to me. losing FPS hurts my experience but unzipping a winrar 20 seconds longer doesnt.

 

[Fx1]

Advanced Micro Devices, Inc.
NYSE: AMD - Feb 22 10:34am ET
2.58-0.02‎ (-0.77%&#8206
Open 2.64
High 2.67
Low 2.57
Volume 8,066,140
Avg Vol 22,061,000
Mkt Cap 1.84B

Intel Corporation
NASDAQ: INTC - Feb 22 10:34am ET
20.26+0.01‎ (0.05%&#8206
Open 20.32
High 20.41
Low 20.10

Volume 9,457,145
Avg Vol 49,798,000
Mkt Cap 100.20B

QUALCOMM, Inc.
NASDAQ: QCOM - 22 Feb 10:09 ET
65.08+0.26 (0.40%)

1 d
5 d
1 m
6 m
1 y
5 y
max
Open
High
Low
65.21
65.30
64.85
Volume
Avg Vol
Mkt Cap
734,136
11,988,000
111.82B

 

[Idontcare]

Games still dont have anything to do with Intel. Its nVidia.

And for your i7 950 vs i7 3770K.
http://www.anandtech.com/bench/Product/100?vs=551

Its not really going too well for you.

Basically the OP has set about creating a list of fictious "facts" as strawman that he can then "deftly" attack and destroy such that he creates a compelling backstory that supports his original thesis "Intel is in trouble".

Entire thread reads as an example of how poster after poster points out that the OP's various strawmen are just that, strawmen.

OP is either trolling us intentionally or we are the idiots for taking the bait. :hmm: I'm leaning towards both being the case :whiste:

 

[JM Popaleetus]

QUALCOMM, Inc.
NASDAQ: QCOM - 22 Feb 10:09 ET
65.08+0.26 (0.40%)

Cool! A completely irrelevant argument.

 

[Medikit]

I think the decision to use X86 in Playstation can only help Intel. This should help consolidate X86 as the stationary gaming platform.


Meanwhile Intel's industrial design is at least 2 years ahead of everyone else in the business. They are using this advantage to try to get into the mobile market and I do think that they will eventually be successful. In the meantime it looks like they are going to use their technology advantage to help 3rd parties build chips:

http://arstechnica.com/business/201...nto-the-foundry-business-with-22nm-customers/

I liked this article regarding mobile processors, it has a nice section discussing Intel's advantages and disadvantages:

http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2013/02/the-future-of-mobile-cpus-part-1-todays-fork-in-the-road/2/

 

[ShintaiDK]

Basically the OP has set about creating a list of fictious "facts" as strawman that he can then "deftly" attack and destroy such that he creates a compelling backstory that supports his original thesis "Intel is in trouble".

Entire thread reads as an example of how poster after poster points out that the OP's various strawmen are just that, strawmen.

OP is either trolling us intentionally or we are the idiots for taking the bait. :hmm: I'm leaning towards both being the case :whiste:

He is also pretty angry about Titan on the VCG board...

Oh, and I agree on the last part. I took my time, but I fell in. Just too tempting to push the big red button.

 

[FridayThe13th]

QUALCOMM, Inc.
NASDAQ: QCOM - 22 Feb 10:09 ET
65.08+0.26 (0.40%)

If im talking about your AMD vs Intel claims , why would you post a company that is neither AMD or Intel?

It's things like these that make people not want to debate because they actually realize the other party is lacking critical thinking or common sense.

Actually wait, let me be like you


Apple Inc.
NASDAQ: AAPL - Feb 22 10:40am ET
447.30+1.24 (0.28%)
Ope n449.25
High 451.60
Low 446.60

Volume 3,387,320
Avg Vol 21,312,000
Mkt Cap 420.04B