Intel Skylake / Kaby Lake

[TahoeDust]

I posted this in the "Who's buying Skylake-X" thread, but I really meant to post it in here with the reviews. For those that are active in both threads, sorry for the redundancy.

Alright. I can call my 7820x completely stable at 4.7GHz on 1.225v. Cooling is a H115i with push/pull Noiseblocker 140mm fans. RAM is Corsair 3200MHz running stock 16-18-18-36 timing. Mesh was set to 3200MHz.

Here are the real world numbers...

In Cinebench it scored 2035cb in Multi thread and 204cb Single Core. The hottest core was #1 hitting 72c.

In Geekbench it scored 33189 Multicore and 5831 Single-core. The hottest core was #3 and #7 both hitting 67c.

In Realbench for 15 minute test the hottest core was #3. It hit 78c.

In Prime with AVX in a 20 minute test the hottest core was #2. It hit 88c. AVX offset was -500MHz) Personally I consider Prime with AVX a very unrealistic usage scenarios for me, so I am OK with this.

AIDA Cache and Memory looks like this...

Just for shits and gigs here are some 3D benches with a 1080ti FTW3...

http://www.3dmark.com/fs/13034422

http://www.3dmark.com/spy/2015990

 

[jj109]

Correct me of I'm wrong but I'm pretty sure it's the new cache design causing the poor game performance and not GPU driver.

Very likely yes.

20% lower than expected DX11&DX12 API performance might have something to do with it, no?

 

[dwade]

Another review:
https://www.hardwareluxx.de/index.p...kaby-lake-x-im-test-gegen-ryzen.html?start=10

Once again, 7800x wins more than it loses against 1800x. This is looking great for the upcoming Coffee Lake 8700k where it will hold the performance crown in every workload for the mainstream platform.

 

[Arachnotronic]

Another review:
https://www.hardwareluxx.de/index.p...kaby-lake-x-im-test-gegen-ryzen.html?start=10

Once again, 7800x wins more than it loses against 1800x. This is looking great for the upcoming Coffee Lake 8700k where it will hold the performance crown in every workload for the mainstream platform.

Nice. 7800X is a good value.

 

[jpiniero]

Man, they regressed hard on perf/w though... looking at the Premiere results. The 7820 is 9% faster than the 6900K but draws 25% more. 7900X vs 6950X is also about 9% faster but is drawing 23% more.

 

[jpiniero]

I guess I could probably rephrase it as to that they will presumably use EMIB as the gateway to extend the mesh between tiles to create one giant mesh.

It will be interesting to see if Xeon-D transitions to a mesh or stays with a ring

The ring is dead, baby. Intel is a server first company now. A future Xeon-D could say for instance contain multiple 8-core CPU tiles. Maybe instead of QCM instead fuse in some edram or something similar?

 

[tamz_msc]

Another review:
https://www.hardwareluxx.de/index.p...kaby-lake-x-im-test-gegen-ryzen.html?start=10

Once again, 7800x wins more than it loses against 1800x. This is looking great for the upcoming Coffee Lake 8700k where it will hold the performance crown in every workload for the mainstream platform.

Gaming benchmarks, meh.

10 core 7900X is behind the 5960X, 7800X is behind 7600K in the most up-to-date game in those tests.

 

[Arachnotronic]

I guess I could probably rephrase it as to that they will presumably use EMIB as the gateway to extend the mesh between tiles to create one giant mesh.



The ring is dead, baby. Intel is a server first company now. A future Xeon-D could say for instance contain multiple 8-core CPU tiles. Maybe instead of QCM instead fuse in some edram or something similar?

Different tools for different jobs. Mesh likely won't show up in client CPUs for a long, long time, if ever.

 

[dwade]

Gaming benchmarks, meh.

10 core 7900X is behind the 5960X, 7800X is behind 7600K in the most up-to-date game in those tests.

You must be blind if you don't see the 7800x beating the entire Ryzen lineup in multithreaded apps in that review. And the same review from this website.

 

[imported_ats]

I guess I could probably rephrase it as to that they will presumably use EMIB as the gateway to extend the mesh between tiles to create one giant mesh.

Unlikely, that would have significant technical issues to deal with besides the obvious performance related ones. If Intel does use EMIB, it is unlike to be used for anything to do with core to core interconnect in servers as opposed to core to peripheral functionality (pci complex, memory complex, accel complex, etc)

The ring is dead, baby. Intel is a server first company now. A future Xeon-D could say for instance contain multiple 8-core CPU tiles. Maybe instead of QCM instead fuse in some edram or something similar?

Um, the ring is alive and well and shipping in multiple products and likely will be baseline for many products for many year to come. Mesh really doesn't make sense <=10c at all.

 

[coercitiv]

7800X is behind 7600K in the most up-to-date game in those tests.

We rejected this kind of argument when Ryzen launched and now you bring it back when it fits the narrative? That's low.

 

[Zucker2k]

Another review:
https://www.hardwareluxx.de/index.p...kaby-lake-x-im-test-gegen-ryzen.html?start=10

Once again, 7800x wins more than it loses against 1800x. This is looking great for the upcoming Coffee Lake 8700k where it will hold the performance crown in every workload for the mainstream platform.

The 7800x renders the entire Ryzen line obsolete. Only the R7 1700 is worth consideration because of price, but you lose significant performance. Looking at those results, AMD better have something to counter coffeelake or things wouldn't look good for them in September.

 

[Atari2600]

Once again, 7800x wins more than it loses against 1800x.

Looks like single core performance is about 10-15% better than Zen1. Good for Intel and good for us to have a competitive marketplace.

It'd be interesting to see what Zen2 can do, in terms of both clock and single thread IPC.

 

[Atari2600]

The 7800x renders the entire Ryzen line obsolete.

True. At the current prices, 1800X doesn't make sense.

But then again, I'd put down money on AM4 allowing me 2 generations of CPU upgrade. Will Intel? Will they fk.

 

[SpoCk0nd0pe]

The 7800x renders the entire Ryzen line obsolete. Only the R7 1700 is worth consideration because of price, but you lose significant performance. Looking at those results, AMD better have something to counter coffeelake or things wouldn't look good for them in September.

Not really. The intel mobos are a lot more expensive.

 

[coercitiv]

The 7800x renders the entire Ryzen line obsolete. Only the R7 1700 is worth consideration because of price

In other news, using the same line of argument, the 7800X makes the entire Kaby Lake line obsolete. Spot the obvious logic flaw, it's only elephant big, and it applies to comparing with the Ryzen lineup as well. The 1800X is the only SKU that makes little sense no matter the workload.

 

[krumme]

Not really. The intel mobos are a lot more expensive.

Yes and its a reference to a single review. And like comparing a 1700 to a 6900. The best comparison here is the 6800.
It stands the 6800 for most enthusiast was a better processor because the gaming perf is better and the loss for productivity is small at oc at about 4.5/4.3. The gaming perf is excactly what the intel line have going for it. And it regresses and that surely hurts a lot of people if not most. And it does so using more power. And its even the same price as the 6800. The 7800 is a failure as it regresses all over.

The 7820x is where things start to get interesting as you get midway gaming perf between bwe and r7 and also a good deal better productivity than r7. Its just flat out noticeably faster and for the new price there is a lot of sense even because of its high power draw and far lower efficiency vs the 6900. The solid price cut makes it far better. The 7800 is not better than the 6800.
Its stuck a hopeless place with 6c cl comming for gaming.
We all knew that beforehand yes. But the surprising thing is the gaming perf regressed. Who in their sane mind predicted that. Trying to make another story of that is not going to cut it. I am sure those who needs avx2 and avx512 perf will be glad but most of the rest will look for cl. Especially at 7800x pricepoint. I will for sure look very carefully to 6c cl. I can sort of wait for handbrake a little but not my fps.

 

[SPBHM]

The 7800x renders the entire Ryzen line obsolete. Only the R7 1700 is worth consideration because of price, but you lose significant performance. Looking at those results, AMD better have something to counter coffeelake or things wouldn't look good for them in September.

both 1600 and 1700 are still in a good position, they work well with cheap MBs and coolers.

 

[lobz]

The 7800x renders the entire Ryzen line obsolete. Only the R7 1700 is worth consideration because of price, but you lose significant performance. Looking at those results, AMD better have something to counter coffeelake or things wouldn't look good for them in September.

Why would you say something like that?? You can get a perfectly decent mobo under $90 for any Ryzen CPU, and an 1600 or X for MUCH MUCH less for a performance difference you would never notice in gaming, and still a lot of MT horsepower. Heck, you can get a 6 core Ryzen and a mobo for less then the price of just the 7800X, talk about obsolete... Such cocky kids these days.

PS: let me know the price of the cheapest mobo you can pair a 7800X and is comparable to its AM4 counterpart. Obsolete...

Sent from my VTR-L09 using Tapatalk

 

[jpiniero]

Unlikely, that would have significant technical issues to deal with besides the obvious performance related ones. If Intel does use EMIB, it is unlike to be used for anything to do with core to core interconnect in servers as opposed to core to peripheral functionality (pci complex, memory complex, accel complex, etc)

That's the impression I got from the patent related to EMIB. Of course they will have to size how many cores they put on a CPU tile appropriately. L3 will be in it's own tile, memory controllers, PCH, etc...

Um, the ring is alive and well and shipping in multiple products and likely will be baseline for many products for many year to come. Mesh really doesn't make sense <=10c at all.

Intel's a server first company now. Either they will fix the performance of the mesh or just live with it.

 

[krumme]

Why would you say something like that?? You can get a perfectly decent mobo under $90 for any Ryzen CPU, and an 1600 or X for MUCH MUCH less for a performance difference you would never notice in gaming, and still a lot of MT horsepower. Heck, you can get a 6 core Ryzen and a mobo for less then the price of just the 7800X, talk about obsolete... Such cocky kids these days.

PS: let me know the price of the cheapest mobo you can pair a 7800X and is comparable to its AM4 counterpart. Obsolete...

Sent from my VTR-L09 using Tapatalk

Skl x actually makes it relevant for the first time ever to include ps and especially cooling in the cost comparisons. Save Intel a few cents on tim add 40 to 500 usd to consumer cooling cost dependant on need and cpu. Talk about moving cost. Heck consumers have to learn the concept tco now

 

[Arachnotronic]

Intel's a server first company now. Either they will fix the performance of the mesh or just live with it.

"Server first" doesn't mean "we won't get engineers to build the right solutions for client products."

Intel will do dedicated client and server IP configs and uncore configs going forward.

 

[imported_ats]

That's the impression I got from the patent related to EMIB. Of course they will have to size how many cores they put on a CPU tile appropriately. L3 will be in it's own tile, memory controllers, PCH, etc...

Never confuse a filed patent with an actual product plan. Companies the size of Intel file hundreds to thousands of patents each year only a small number of which have any relation to any product. Companies routinely file patents just to have it published and public, etc.

Intel's a server first company now. Either they will fix the performance of the mesh or just live with it.

No, Intel is a manufacturing company first. Always has been. Always will be. CPUs are quite honestly a sideshow, as are chipsets, as is basically everything outside of the fabs. If, tomorrow, Intel could make more per wafer on NOR flash than CPUs, they would quite literally exit the CPU biz.

As far as mesh and servers, its fine and works fine. HEDT is not what the Skylake server design nor mesh was ever meant to solve. Hell, HEDT is primarily a market intended to rip off people with more money than actual sense. 99.99% of people buying a HEDT computer would be better served with the high end of the non-server line for <1/2 the price. For people with workloads that can actually scale to a large number of cores, the HEDT product lines are horribly inefficient because of their voltages and frequencies. Hell, realistically, you can buy a top end 7700k rig + a 8-16c Xeon-D rig for the same price as a HEDT rig.

 

[TheGiant]

Do know that SKL-X was never meant to be a gaming chip, let alone the top gaming chip. That's what the mainstream platform is for.

Well I had another expectation.
BDW-E was an excellent gaming chip, look at the chart of oced 6800 or 6900. They are doing great. I expected as gaming performance moved up with skylake/kabylake architecture especially fed with fast RAM that the SKL-X will be top notch gaming king.
Now it looks like it can be fast even in gaming with fast L3. And we see that the mesh max real usable frequency is 3.2GHz and that produces still low L3 performance for gaming.
I wonder what coffee lake brings and what will be the gaming and app performance difference between CFL 6C and SKL-X 6 Core.

Won't the server apps and usage benefit from the faster mesh too?

 

[TheGiant]

A common point of regression ( the GPU driver ) would explain why games aren't scaling as expected even when applications, 3dmark CPU tests, and game sub-tests (like Civ 6 AI) are fine.

Those results are for 2.4GHz mesh or ? Can someone test this with 2.4 and 3.2 GHz mesh to see the difference?