Intel Skylake / Kaby Lake

[Bouowmx]

Perhaps Intel Coffee Lake 6 cores at 5 GHz with a de-lid and liquid-metal thermal interface material.

Comparing Coffee Lake and Skylake-X single-thread performance, I think it is a wash: Coffee Lake might be able to achieve higher frequency (better manufacturing process), or Skylake-X's modified cache may offset the frequency disadvantage.

 

[french toast]

Coffeelake is going to be the chip to get for high end general use computers.

 

[moonbogg]

If that coffee lake chip has paste inside it, I'm not buying it.

 

[Ajay]

Proof? Or are you simply passing your opinion as fact?

IDK. Are you basing "If that is what you people really think then there is going to be a lot of disappointment in a few months." on opinion or fact?

 

[Sweepr]

I am trying to summarize what cores,cache structure , AVX instruction set, socket, memory channels and manufacturing process do each of the following use.

CPU Core Cache structure AVX Socket Chipset Memory channels Cores Manufacturing process
Skylake-X , Skylake server , 1 MB L2 , AVX-512 , LGA 2066 , X299 , 4 , 6/8/10/12 , 14+
Kabylake-X , Skylake server , 1MB L2 , AVX-512 , LGA 2066 , X299 , 2 , 4 , 14+
Coffeelake , Coffeelake client , 256 kb L2 , AVX-256 , LGA 1151 , Z370 , 2 , 4/6 , 14++

It looks like Kaby Lake-X uses regular Skylake cores at 14nm+, so this means 256 KB L2 and same IPC as Core i7-7700K. Basically a LGA 2066 version of the latter.

http://ranker.sisoftware.net/show_r...d4ecdce5dce9def88ab787a1c4a19cac8af9c4f7&l=en

Correct me if I am wrong in any of the details. The way I see it Kabylake-X is totally redundant. It will lose to Coffeelake 6/4 as they use a more advanced 14++ process allowing to hit significantly higher frequencies. Kabylake-X does not even have four channel memory support which is a key advantage of X299. If someone want a high end gaming PC in 2017 they should just go for Coffeelake 6C. It will kill everything in the market. It will clock higher than Skylake-X due to 14++ and today's games still prefer IPC and clocks over thread count. Coffeelake 6C/12T will be the first CPU with 6 cores to hit 5 Ghz easily on air. I think Skylake-X 6C/12T might not 5 Ghz consistently as it has a much more power hungry die due to 4 memory channels and AVX-512.

I agree. The way I see it Kaby Lake-X was meant to give HEDT their fastest quad-core part as an option. But that was before Intel brought forward the launch of Coffee Lake-S. Now 6C Coffee Lake-S with much better MT performance will be out after two months in a cheaper platform and 4C Coffee Lake-S might take the best performance per core (14nm++) crown. Based on this, I hope they price Kaby Lake-X accordingly.

 

[mikk]

Proof? Or are you simply passing your opinion as fact?

No proof required really, 4 MB bigger L3 Cache helps for ST workloads.

 

[nvgpu]

Kaby Lake-X is Kaby Lake minus GPU and uses LGA 2066 socket, it's pointless now since Coffee Lake 6C12T is coming sooner than originally planned next year. It does not support AVX-512 afaik because it's not a server core like Skylake-X.

If you're going for HEDT, buy Skylake-X with 6/8 cores and hope it can go over 4GHz at least.

 

[tamz_msc]

Coffeelake is going to be the chip to get for high end general use computers.

If they are still using toothpaste for the bigger 6C die in the same package, any overclocking would quickly reach TjMax without a delid.

 

[cbn]

Kaby Lake-X is Kaby Lake minus GPU and uses LGA 2066 socket, it's pointless now since Coffee Lake 6C12T is coming sooner than originally planned next year. It does not support AVX-512 afaik because it's not a server core like Skylake-X.

If you're going for HEDT, buy Skylake-X with 6/8 cores and hope it can go over 4GHz at least.

Well, at least there is a chance Kabylake-X will use solder (rather than TIM) under the heatspreader.

Also, I suspect it will be priced cheaper than i7-7700K as well.

 

[Sweepr]

Latest Skylake-SP Geekbench 4 leak:

2x Intel Xeon Gold 6138 @ 3.70 GHz @ Geekbench 4
2 processors, 40 cores, 80 threads

Single-Core Score
4396
Multi-Core Score
72752

For the record, the best Broadwell-EP score under Linux 64-bit comes from a 2x intel Xeon E5-2699A v4 @ 3.60 GHz system with 44C/88T:

Single-Core Score
4306
Multi-Core Score
70299

Xeon Platinum 8180 with 40% more cores/threads than the Xeon Gold 6138 above should be well faster than any Broadwell-EP part.

 

[frozentundra123456]

Well, at least there is a chance Kabylake-X will use solder (rather than TIM) under the heatspreader.

Also, I suspect it will be priced cheaper than i7-7700K as well.

I would bet no on both counts. I though it was already established that Kaby X was not soldered. I also remember back in the Sandy Bridge days the quad HEDT or whatever they called it then was more expensive.

 

[Edrick]

IDK. Are you basing "If that is what you people really think then there is going to be a lot of disappointment in a few months." on opinion or fact?

It is simply my opinion that expecting a 6C chip to provide "easy" 5ghz OC on air when existing 4C chip are not an "easy" 5ghz OC on air (on a 14nm process) is unrealistic. Coupled with the fact that Intel has not met Anandtech expectations in every release since Sandy, I feel comfortable making that statement.

 

[Edrick]

No proof required really, 4 MB bigger L3 Cache helps for ST workloads.

Ok, just so I understand, the 2MB extra cache a 7700k has does not provide a significant performance increase in most applications to justify it over a 7600k, yet, the speculation of 4MB extra cache that a 6C cannonlake cpu may have is enough to proclaim it the ST King with no further proof?

All while ignoring the cache changes in Skylake-X

 

[Edrick]

Coffeelake is going to be the chip to get for high end general use computers.

I think it is going to be a huge seller for sure, but as many have said, the TIM issue may be a deal breaker.

 

[moonbogg]

I think it is going to be a huge seller for sure, but as many have said, the TIM issue may be a deal breaker.

Yep I won't touch it if it has tim. Real solder was one of the deciding factors in me choosing 6800k over 7700K. I just refuse to buy cheap pasted garbage. Don't even care if its faster. Its tinker toy level with that ridiculous paste inside.

 

[frozentundra123456]

If that coffee lake chip has paste inside it, I'm not buying it.

If it offers the best performance, who cares? If coffee lake is on 14nm++ and the improved process outweighs the lack of solder it seems ridiculous to arbitrarily rule out buying it.

 

[Ajay]

I think it is going to be a huge seller for sure, but as many have said, the TIM issue may be a deal breaker.

The worst thing about Intel's consumer chip TIM is the variability. Some CPUs are pretty good, others are miserable. If I were buying a 6 core CFL, I'd probably do so through Silicon Lottery and have it professionally dellided/relidded - decreasing the cost/benefit ratio somewhat.

 

[csbin]

Latest Skylake-SP Geekbench 4 leak:

2x Intel Xeon Gold 6138 @ 3.70 GHz @ Geekbench 4
2 processors, 40 cores, 80 threads

Single-Core Score
4396
Multi-Core Score
72752

For the record, the best Broadwell-EP score under Linux 64-bit comes from a 2x intel Xeon E5-2699A v4 @ 3.60 GHz system with 44C/88T:

Single-Core Score
4306
Multi-Core Score
70299

Xeon Platinum 8180 with 40% more cores/threads than the Xeon Gold 6138 above should be well faster than any Broadwell-EP part.

CPU IPC

Looking at matters purely from this perspective, Skylake-SP does not come out well


Geekbench 4.1.0 Tryout for Linux x86 (64-bit)

Xeon Gold 6138 Max Turbo Frequency@3.70 GHz ：Single-Core Score 4396（SKL-SP）https://browser.primatelabs.com/v4/cpu/2596026
Xeon E5-2699A v4 Max Turbo Frequency@3.60 GHz： Single-Core Score 4306（BDW-EP）https://browser.primatelabs.com/v4/cpu/2593799
Intel Core i5-7400 Max Turbo Frequency@ 3.50 GHz：Single-Core Score 4315（KBL）https://browser.primatelabs.com/v4/cpu/2612554
Intel Core i5-7500 Max Turbo Frequency@ 3.80 GHz：Single-Core Score 4839（KBL）https://browser.primatelabs.com/v4/cpu/2516201
Intel Core i7-6700 Max Turbo Frequency@ 4.00 GHz：Single-Core Score 5402（SKL）https://browser.primatelabs.com/v4/cpu/2616235

 

[Sweepr]

Don't worry csbin, they are not regressing in IPC, if that's what you're suggesting by comparing random Geekbench scores and assuming all chips are operating at the clocks you listed. In fact, source tells me server Skylake is (a bit) faster per clock than client Skylake / Kaby Lake.

 

[lolfail9001]

Don't worry csbin, they are not regressing in IPC, if that's what you're suggesting by comparing random Geekbench scores and assuming all chips are operating at the clocks you listed.

It would be very damn surprising if they were not operating at single core boost clock in single core benchmark on QS stage.

 

[itsmydamnation]

No proof required really, 4 MB bigger L3 Cache helps for ST workloads.

At a higher average latency .

I dont think you will find many ST workloads either way that benifits from the extra cache or hurt from the extra latency. But obviously once you start increasing thread count ( even just 3 or 4) then it can really start to help.

 

[csbin]

Intel Xeon Platinum 8176M @ 3.80 GHz
2 processors, 56 cores, 112 threads

Single-Core Score 2761
Multi-Core Score 68543


https://browser.primatelabs.com/v4/cpu/2618106

 

[happy medium]

Curiously unlike DigiTimes they don't mention a different launch date for 12C Skylake-X. According to the image above it will be introduced together with the cheaper options.

"Intel’s Monstrous 12 Core / 24 Thread HEDT Skylake-X Processor Confirmed – Will Debut On 30th May In Intel Keynote, Availability By End of June"

http://wccftech.com/intel-moster-12-core-hedt-skylake-x-confirmed-launch-30-may-x299/

https://benchlife.info/intel-x299-will-announce-by-navin-in-computex-2017-keynote-04212017/

 

[imported_ats]

Only a fool builds a new rig, to play old games....!

The multiplayer games I play, already use SMT. And most software houses are building newer engines to make use of 64bit Windows 10 (DX12/Vulkan). Again, I am not building for those current games (my rig plays them), I am building a new gaming rig for the games that are in development & being released over the next 4 years.


Go ahead and buy a 4c in middle of 2017 for gaming. The rest of us will be laughing at you...

And none of those games are going to be faster on a 24c vs a 4-6c. You are vastly overestimating the realistic parallelism in game engines.

 

[imported_ats]

CPU IPC

Looking at matters purely from this perspective, Skylake-SP does not come out well


Geekbench 4.1.0 Tryout for Linux x86 (64-bit)

Xeon Gold 6138 Max Turbo Frequency@3.70 GHz ：Single-Core Score 4396（SKL-SP）https://browser.primatelabs.com/v4/cpu/2596026
Xeon E5-2699A v4 Max Turbo Frequency@3.60 GHz： Single-Core Score 4306（BDW-EP）https://browser.primatelabs.com/v4/cpu/2593799
Intel Core i5-7400 Max Turbo Frequency@ 3.50 GHz：Single-Core Score 4315（KBL）https://browser.primatelabs.com/v4/cpu/2612554
Intel Core i5-7500 Max Turbo Frequency@ 3.80 GHz：Single-Core Score 4839（KBL）https://browser.primatelabs.com/v4/cpu/2516201
Intel Core i7-6700 Max Turbo Frequency@ 4.00 GHz：Single-Core Score 5402（SKL）https://browser.primatelabs.com/v4/cpu/2616235

Comparing a low core count single socket CPU to a high core count multi-socket CPU using ST is basically pointless. There is always going to be additional overhead to support both the increased number of cores as well as multiple sockets. This will manifest as increased LLC and memory latencies.