Discussion Intel Meteor, Arrow, Lunar & Panther Lakes + WCL Discussion Threads

[Tigerick]

Wildcat Lake (WCL) Preliminary Specs

Intel Wildcat Lake (WCL) is upcoming mobile SoC replacing ADL-N. WCL consists of 2 tiles: compute tile and PCD tile. It is true single die consists of CPU, GPU and NPU that is fabbed by 18-A process. Last time I checked, PCD tile is fabbed by TSMC N6 process. They are connected through UCIe, not D2D; a first from Intel. Expecting launching in Q2/Computex 2026. In case people don't remember AlderLake-N, I have created a table below to compare the detail specs of ADL-N and WCL. Just for fun, I am throwing LNL and upcoming Mediatek D9500 SoC.

		Intel Alder Lake - N	Intel Wildcat Lake	Intel Lunar Lake		Mediatek D9500
Launch Date		Q1-2023	Q2-2026 ?	Q3-2024		Q3-2025
Model		Intel N300	?	Core Ultra 7 268V		Dimensity 9500 5G
Dies		2	2	2		1
Node		Intel 7 + ?	Intel 18-A + TSMC N6	TSMC N3B + N6		TSMC N3P
CPU		8 E-cores	2 P-core + 4 LP E-cores	4 P-core + 4 LP E-cores		C1 1+3+4
Threads		8	6	8		8
Max Clock		3.8 GHz	?	5 GHz
L3 Cache		6 MB	?	12 MB
TDP		7 W	Fanless ?	17 W		Fanless
Memory		64-bit LPDDR5-4800	64-bit LPDDR5-6800 ?	128-bit LPDDR5X-8533		64-bit LPDDR5X-10667
Size		16 GB	?	32 GB		24 GB ?
Bandwidth			~ 55 GB/s	136 GB/s		85.6 GB/s
GPU		UHD Graphics		Arc 140V		G1 Ultra
EU / Xe		32 EU	2 Xe	8 Xe		12
Max Clock		1.25 GHz		2 GHz
NPU		NA	18 TOPS	48 TOPS		100 TOPS ?

As Hot Chips 34 starting this week, Intel will unveil technical information of upcoming Meteor Lake (MTL) and Arrow Lake (ARL), new generation platform after Raptor Lake. Both MTL and ARL represent new direction which Intel will move to multiple chiplets and combine as one SoC platform.

MTL also represents new compute tile that based on Intel 4 process which is based on EUV lithography, a first from Intel. Intel expects to ship MTL mobile SoC in 2023.

ARL will come after MTL so Intel should be shipping it in 2024, that is what Intel roadmap is telling us. ARL compute tile will be manufactured by Intel 20A process, a first from Intel to use GAA transistors called RibbonFET.

 

[adroc_thurston]

Nuking ASPs to this extent, that a CPU that is intended for $1200 laptop is now selling in $600 laptop is not going to work out so well for margins.

well yeah but they get to maintain their MSS.

when MDS1 launches and will have costs similar to KRK1?

It'll be a bit pricier.

If you read comments on Twitter

you know well enough how my twitter looks like.

 

[OneEng2]

My conclusion is that Medusa will offer greater improvement over Strix than Panther Lake over Lunar Lake.

I think the question is how PTL will complete with Medusa

It should be. Desktop depends on the ramp of N2P or N2X (H2 2026) while Zen 6 mobile is on N3P, which is already in full production now.

Now that is an interesting point. While clearly we will not be seeing N2 volume production at CES time frames (for anyone), there is no reason (other than development time) that Zen 6 could not be released on N3P for mobile.

what stops AMD from launching stuff at all once on N2p?

Reality.

 

[adroc_thurston]

I think the question is how PTL will complete with Medusa

it won't, lacks the perf to touch it.

Reality.

?

 

[Joe NYC]

well yeah but they get to maintain their MSS.

LNL is over all a better CPU than Kracken. It is quite surprising that Intel has to compete, to such an extent on price, in order to maintain market share.

It'll be a bit pricier.

MDS1 may be about the same die size as KRK1 (shrink vs. additional features should cancel out each other. But on a better, slightly more expensive node.

While Lunar Lake is ahead of Kraken on overall competitiveness, I don't think same will hold true in Panther Lake vs. Medusa Point. As I pointed out above, Medusa will gain much more on Kracken than Panther Lake will gain on Lunar Lake.

you know well enough how my twitter looks like.

Safe guess it is similar to mine - hopium overdose.

 

[adroc_thurston]

LNL is over all a better CPU than Kracken

Also much more expensive.

MDS1 may be about the same die size as KRK1 (shrink vs. additional features should cancel out each other. But on a better, slightly more expensive node.

It's not the same size lmao, it's almost the exact same config too.
And a shrink's a shrink.

Safe guess it is similar to mine - hopium overdose.

no. lol.

 

[Khato]

Exactly how expensive is LNL to supposedly have such an impact on end system pricing? How about an actual figure instead of just baselessly claiming that Intel is nuking their ASPs.

 

[Joe NYC]

Also much more expensive.

It's not the same size lmao, it's almost the exact same config too.
And a shrink's a shrink.

Additional LP cores are something. Also, Zen 6 will probably have more transistors than Zen 5 per core, so likely a smaller shrink than it would be shrink of the same core.

While Kracken has a big advantage on LNL in cost, I think Medusa will still maintain cost advantage over PTL.

But while LNL was a more attractive CPU over KRK, that will unlikely hold true between MDS1 and PTL. My guess is that Medusa will be in the lead.

Which would then lead both in cost and performance.

 

[Joe NYC]

Exactly how expensive is LNL to supposedly have such an impact on end system pricing? How about an actual figure instead of just baselessly claiming that Intel is nuking their ASPs.

1. You can click on the link
2. in last investor call, CFO Zinsner said margins will be under pressure this quarter, and I think he specifically mentioned LNL as a reason (not 100% sure on this).

 

[adroc_thurston]

Exactly how expensive is LNL to supposedly have such an impact on end system pricing?

Again, it's a part that targets $1200 systems.
You can get it for 600 bucks now.

 

[LightningZ71]

Unless you absolutely needed the thinnest and lightest laptop with ok GPU performance and long battery life when you aren't pushing it hard all day, KRK was a better buy. Similar 1t, better MT. Lower price. You could just spend a bit more and get a bigger battery, or, like a coworker did, they bought a battery pack to keep in their laptop bag when they needed to be away from a wall outlet all day. They still had money left over.

Now that Lunar Lake is deteriorating in pricing, the situation is different.

 

[adroc_thurston]

Unless you absolutely needed the thinnest and lightest laptop with ok GPU performance and long battery life when you aren't pushing it hard all day, KRK was a better buy. Similar 1t, better MT. Lower price. You could just spend a bit more and get a bigger battery, or, like a coworker did, they bought a battery pack to keep in their laptop bag when they needed to be away from a wall outlet all day. They still had money left over.

Now that Lunar Lake is deteriorating in pricing, the situation is different.

Nah LNL was/is plain good.

 

[Hulk]

I'm glad that Intel is showing signs of life. Hopefully it's more than just signs on paper. Revised P and E cores, lots of fabric improvements, and a new node... all at once. 5 years ago I was thinking with a hybrid tiled approach they could alternate revisions to the P and E cores in different releases, update the node and leave the cores alone for a refresh now and then, like the old days. But they have fallen behind and need to make all of this happen at once. It's really put up or shut up time for Intel. They pushed all of their chips in. Their cores on their node with their iGPU. Let's go.

AMD on the other hand is very quiet. My gut tells me it's a quiet confidence. Like they are going to let Zen 6 hit it out of the park and then do the talking after the home run.

 

[MoistOintment]

they bought a battery pack to keep in their laptop bag when they needed to be away from a wall outlet all day. They still had money left over.

People pay the price for products with LNL to specifically not have to do something like that.

 

[Darkmont]

Nah LNL was/is plain good.

Some of dem Lenovo 14 inchers in the $1000-1400 range were kino T&L

 

[adroc_thurston]

Some of dem Lenovo 14 inchers in the $1000-1400 range were kino T&L

LNL X1c was also real dang nifty.

 

[Josh128]

yeah but that's because Intel decided to nuke their ASPs.

what stops AMD from launching stuff at all once on N2p?

why lol

money money money....MONNAY!

 

[adroc_thurston]

money money money....MONNAY!

yeah?
N2 wafers are perfectly affordable.

 

[jpiniero]

yeah?
N2 wafers are perfectly affordable.

(Mashes X)

 

[LightningZ71]

Nah LNL was/is plain good.

Didn't say it was bad. It's good at what it was designed for: being an expensive way to have a long battery life on a usable Ultrabook.

It's just not a great value (before being sold at/below cost) as compared to KRK.

 

[LightningZ71]

People pay the price for products with LNL to specifically not have to do something like that.

If that's your PRIMARY work cycle, absolutely. If you don't do the road warrior lifestyle hardcore, then his approach was just fine. It's not like you couldn't get a decent thin n light with KRK, uninstall all the bloatware, trim up Windows 11, fine time the power management and get nearly the same battery life out of it.

 

[Khato]

Again, it's a part that targets $1200 systems.
You can get it for 600 bucks now.

So what? LNL ASP is a fraction of system price. OEMs are definitely nuking their margins in order to maintain sales. I'm sure Intel is also reducing their ASP, but not to the same extent as the system OEMs.

 

[Khato]

1. You can click on the link

Which link? I didn't see anything in a quick scan through the last three pages.

 

[adroc_thurston]

I'm sure Intel is also reducing their ASP, but not to the same extent as the system OEMs.

let's try finding an STX1 laptop at $600

 

[Khato]

let's try finding an STX1 laptop at $600

Why exactly? Unless you're implying that AMD's '9' series Strix Point is equivalent to Intel's Lunar Lake 5 or 7 series? The more equivalent cost offering from AMD would be Krackan Point, which has also seen far wider adoption by the OEMs.

 

[adroc_thurston]

Why exactly?

Because that's the AMD part targeting $1200 SRPs.

Unless you're implying that AMD's '9' series Strix Point is equivalent to Intel's Lunar Lake 5 or 7 series?

All of LNL targets >$1200 devices. It was their superpremium ultrathin platform!

The more equivalent cost offering from AMD would be Krackan Point, which has also seen far wider adoption by the OEMs.

KRK1 is $800 laptops.