Discussion Intel Meteor, Arrow, Lunar & Panther Lakes + WCL Discussion Threads

[Tigerick]

Wildcat Lake (WCL) Preliminary Specs

Intel Wildcat Lake (WCL) is upcoming mobile SoC replacing ADL-N. WCL consists of 2 tiles: compute tile and PCD tile. It is true single die consists of CPU, GPU and NPU that is fabbed by 18-A process. Last time I checked, PCD tile is fabbed by TSMC N6 process. They are connected through UCIe, not D2D; a first from Intel. Expecting launching in Q2/Computex 2026. In case people don't remember AlderLake-N, I have created a table below to compare the detail specs of ADL-N and WCL. Just for fun, I am throwing LNL and upcoming Mediatek D9500 SoC.

		Intel Alder Lake - N	Intel Wildcat Lake	Intel Lunar Lake		Mediatek D9500
Launch Date		Q1-2023	Q2-2026 ?	Q3-2024		Q3-2025
Model		Intel N300	?	Core Ultra 7 268V		Dimensity 9500 5G
Dies		2	2	2		1
Node		Intel 7 + ?	Intel 18-A + TSMC N6	TSMC N3B + N6		TSMC N3P
CPU		8 E-cores	2 P-core + 4 LP E-cores	4 P-core + 4 LP E-cores		C1 1+3+4
Threads		8	6	8		8
Max Clock		3.8 GHz	?	5 GHz
L3 Cache		6 MB	?	12 MB
TDP		7 W	Fanless ?	17 W		Fanless
Memory		64-bit LPDDR5-4800	64-bit LPDDR5-6800 ?	128-bit LPDDR5X-8533		64-bit LPDDR5X-10667
Size		16 GB	?	32 GB		24 GB ?
Bandwidth			~ 55 GB/s	136 GB/s		85.6 GB/s
GPU		UHD Graphics		Arc 140V		G1 Ultra
EU / Xe		32 EU	2 Xe	8 Xe		12
Max Clock		1.25 GHz		2 GHz
NPU		NA	18 TOPS	48 TOPS		100 TOPS ?

As Hot Chips 34 starting this week, Intel will unveil technical information of upcoming Meteor Lake (MTL) and Arrow Lake (ARL), new generation platform after Raptor Lake. Both MTL and ARL represent new direction which Intel will move to multiple chiplets and combine as one SoC platform.

MTL also represents new compute tile that based on Intel 4 process which is based on EUV lithography, a first from Intel. Intel expects to ship MTL mobile SoC in 2023.

ARL will come after MTL so Intel should be shipping it in 2024, that is what Intel roadmap is telling us. ARL compute tile will be manufactured by Intel 20A process, a first from Intel to use GAA transistors called RibbonFET.

 

[poke01]

All of LNL targets >$1200 devices. It was their superpremium ultrathin platform!

The 226v was surely <$999?

 

[Khato]

All of LNL targets >$1200 devices. It was their superpremium ultrathin platform!

It is a super premium ultrathin platform. But that doesn't mean that OEMs can only use it in super premium devices. Because unlike Strix Point it's not a super expensive SoC. The cost structure really isn't that different from ARL save for the inclusion of on package memory.

The existence of $600 LNL laptops is simply a result of it being far more successful and widely adopted than the original targets.

 

[adroc_thurston]

The 226v was surely <$999?

999 exactly.

But that doesn't mean that OEMs can only use it in super premium devices

It does! Unless Intel casts a nuke on their ASPs. which they did.

 

[Khato]

It does! Unless Intel casts a nuke on their ASPs. which they did.

According to what reliable source? What did they do, cut their ASPs in half? What was the original ASP of Lunar Lake? I'd accept being within $100 of the actual ASP.

 

[511]

It will be interesting to see how Panther Lake does vs. competition. Most of the comments around here (and on Twitter) is about how Panther Lake does in vacuum. Discussing future CPU (Panther Lake) forgetting there will be future CPUs from competitors.

Medusa will likely ship within 1-2 quarters of Panther Lake, and Panther Lake will compete against Medusa for majority of its life.

As far as top performance and efficiency (vs. last gen from the same company).

Panther Lake:
+ new core
+ new iteration of SOC
= equivalent process node
= equivalent LP cores
- losing MoP advantage

Zen 6 Medusa:
+ new core
+ new iteration of SOC
+ better node
+ new LP cores

My conclusion is that Medusa will offer greater improvement over Strix than Panther Lake over Lunar Lake.

Zen6 competitor is NVL not PTL.

 

[511]

NVL starts Q2'27 with mobile probably even later.

Totally wrong it's mostly a CES launch HX might launch later

 

[adroc_thurston]

Totally wrong it's mostly a CES launch HX might launch later

that was my expectation but looks like we're running a wee bit later.

 

[511]

that was my expectation but looks like we're running a wee bit later.

Oh lol wrong X sku I meant AX is launching later NVL is CES 27

 

[regen1]

Zen6 competitor is NVL not PTL.

For most part, yes. Also there's a lineup of Gorgon Point(Strix Point+ Krackan Point rehash/refresh) which is being ignored.

Totally wrong it's mostly a CES launch HX might launch later

Apart from probably NVL-AX(Halo) most of NVL line should have been either launched or announced by CES 2027 if everything goes as per schedule.

Edit: Oops! Saw your post on NVL-AX after posting.

 

[regen1]

This ITT, even though has some decent new stuff reveal on PTL has been the least technically detailed by far amongst the last three.
No IPC figures on P and E cores, didn't go in as much detail on GPU and other stuff as well.

 

[511]

LBT brought cadence secrecy culture 😛

 

[poke01]

LBT brought cadence secrecy culture 😛

yep, not a single gb leak so far. That is pretty good sec

 

[Geddagod]

that was my expectation but looks like we're running a wee bit later.

Intel reiterated NVL for 26 in the last earnings call, and in one of the three tech conferences they held last month. There's prob going to be confirmation again at their earnings call in the next week or so.

 

[coercitiv]

Intel reiterated NVL for 26 in the last earnings call, and in one of the three tech conferences they held last month. There's prob going to be confirmation again at their earnings call in the next week or so.

Back in March / April, Intel told us PTL was a 2025 product.

At Intel Vision 2025, the company showcased a slot that called its upcoming “Panther Lake” a 2026 product. Today, we have been contacted by Intel to confirm that Intel’s 18A Panther Lake CPUs remain “on track for 2025.”

Looking ahead to the rest of the year, we will strengthen our client roadmap with the launch of Panther Lake, our lead product on Intel 18A, in the second half of 2025. As the first volume customer of Intel 18A, I see the progress that Intel Foundry is making on performance and yields. And I look forward to being in production in the second half as we demonstrate the benefits of our world-class design and process technology capabilities.

Whether NVL arrives on time or not remains to be seen, but don't take Intel's word for it. Would be nice if did come out on time though.

 

[511]

Back in March / April, Intel told us PTL was a 2025 product.

It is only for OEMs not us sadly and no EEP launch

 

[Magio]

I think it's fine to say PTL's early enablement program was probably slated for Q4 this year and will probably miss it. But at the same time that feels like a rather insignificant delay if CES is where the product line gets rolled out instead with increasing shipments through 2026. As far as missed deadlines go, could be worse.

 

[poke01]

It is only for OEMs not us sadly and no EEP launch

So not a 2025 launch then. That’s like saying Spark launched in Q2 for OEMs but for us in October.
If Intel missies EEP that’s fine, next time I’ll take their timelines with a bit more doubt.

 

[511]

So not a 2025 launch then. That’s like saying Spark launched in Q2 for OEMs but for us in October.

Yes

If Intel missies EEP that’s fine, next time I’ll take their timelines with a bit more doubt.

EEP was cancelled among other stuff

 

[OneEng2]

But while LNL was a more attractive CPU over KRK, that will unlikely hold true between MDS1 and PTL. My guess is that Medusa will be in the lead.

Which would then lead both in cost and performance.

Possibly. I am not counting Intel out yet.

Unless you absolutely needed the thinnest and lightest laptop with ok GPU performance and long battery life when you aren't pushing it hard all day

... yes, but that long battery life and good performance is right in the sweet spot for that market. LNL is a good product IMO.

But they have fallen behind and need to make all of this happen at once.

... and this is the heart of the matter.

Intel is behind. To catch up, they are taking big risks.

 

[coercitiv]

Intel is behind. To catch up, they are taking big risks.

That's also how they fell behind: they took big risks.

 

[511]

In fabrication no one takes big risk 🤣 🤣 . Look at TSMC they have a very conservative schedule

 

[dullard]

Back in March / April, Intel told us PTL was a 2025 product.

As of yesterday, Intel again stated Panther Lake is being shipped in 2025 and will be available in laptops in Jan 2026. "Panther Lake will ship later in 2025 and go on sale in January 2026."

Introducing Panther Lake: By the Numbers

Intel® Core™ Ultra series 3 processors go on sale in January 2026

newsroom.intel.com

That pretty much mirrors your link that says:
"As such, we should expect Panther Lake to launch later this year with relatively few products, but become more broadly available in early 2026."

 

[Josh128]

yeah?
N2 wafers are perfectly affordable.

But they are not perfectly unlimited. If you had 2000 wafers available and you could either make 5 million with them or $750K, which would you choose? Money wins bro, Venice and MI450 are way more profitable than desktop or AMDs still paltry mobile presence. With OpenAI and now Oracle waiting on Helios, Lisa is getting those out first bruh. Consumer PC plebs like you and I will have to wait. Theres zero hurry to get Zen 6 desktop out as they already have the crown with Zen 5/X3D. Consumer GPU market for AMD still tiny, so that takes backseat as well. Share price is what matters, not what we want here to put in our PCs.

 

[Geddagod]

But they are not perfectly unlimited. If you had 1000 available and you could make 5 million with them or $750K, which would you choose? Money wins bro, Venice and MI450 way more profitable than desktop or AMDs still paltry mobile presence. With OpenAI and now Oracle waiting on Helios, AMD getting those out first bruh. Consumer PC plebs will have to wait.

AMD's AI GPUs are surprisingly unprofitable. MI300 was selling below corporate average margins a couple quarters ago IIRC. Maybe it's better now...

 

[Geddagod]

AMD's AI GPUs are surprisingly unprofitable. MI300 was selling below corporate average margins a couple quarters ago IIRC. Maybe it's better now...

I should clarify lol, I don't mean unprofitable, I should have said less profitable than other stuff