Discussion Intel Meteor, Arrow, Lunar & Panther Lakes + WCL Discussion Threads

[Tigerick]

Wildcat Lake (WCL) Specs

Intel Wildcat Lake (WCL) is upcoming mobile SoC replacing Raptor Lake-U. WCL consists of 2 tiles: compute tile and PCD tile. It is true single die consists of CPU, GPU and NPU that is fabbed by 18-A process. Last time I checked, PCD tile is fabbed by TSMC N6 process. They are connected through UCIe, not D2D; a first from Intel. Expecting launching in Q1 2026.

		Intel Raptor Lake U	Intel Wildcat Lake 15W	Intel Lunar Lake		Intel Panther Lake 4+0+4
Launch Date		Q1-2024	Q2-2026	Q3-2024		Q1-2026
Model		Intel 150U	Intel Core 7 360	Core Ultra 7 268V		Core Ultra 7 365
Dies		2	2	2		3
Node		Intel 7 + ?	Intel 18-A + TSMC N6	TSMC N3B + N6		Intel 18-A + Intel 3 + TSMC N6
CPU		2 P-core + 8 E-cores	2 P-core + 4 LP E-cores	4 P-core + 4 LP E-cores		4 P-core + 4 LP E-cores
Threads		12	6	8		8
Max Clock		5.4 GHz	4.8 GHz	5 GHz		4.8 GHz
L3 Cache		12 MB	6 MB	12 MB		12 MB
TDP		15 - 55 W	15 - 35 W	17 - 37 W		25 - 55 W
Memory		128-bit LPDDR5-5200	64-bit LPDDR5x-7467	128-bit LPDDR5x-8533		128-bit LPDDR5x-7467
Size		96 GB	48 GB	32 GB		128 GB
Bandwidth		83 GB/s	60 GB/s	136 GB/s		120 GB/s
GPU		Intel Graphics	Intel Graphics	Arc 140V		Intel Graphics
RT		No	No	YES		YES
EU / Xe		96 EU	2 Xe	8 Xe		4 Xe
Max Clock		1.3 GHz	2.6 GHz	2 GHz		2.5 GHz
NPU		GNA 3.0	17 TOPS	48 TOPS		49 TOPS

As Hot Chips 34 starting this week, Intel will unveil technical information of upcoming Meteor Lake (MTL) and Arrow Lake (ARL), new generation platform after Raptor Lake. Both MTL and ARL represent new direction which Intel will move to multiple chiplets and combine as one SoC platform.

MTL also represents new compute tile that based on Intel 4 process which is based on EUV lithography, a first from Intel. Intel expects to ship MTL mobile SoC in 2023.

ARL will come after MTL so Intel should be shipping it in 2024, that is what Intel roadmap is telling us. ARL compute tile will be manufactured by Intel 20A process, a first from Intel to use GAA transistors called RibbonFET.

 

[Thunder 57]

Not enough 5GHz+ yields.

Thats what I was thinking. Pretty much a 10900k vs 10850k scenario.

 

[poke01]

The N3E based XE3 GPU is looking like it might a 500MHz increase over lunar lake.

This could be fastest iGPU in any SoC that uses a 128-bit bus especially with the new architecture.

 

[511]

Not enough 5GHz+ yields.

Like LNL had them to begin with 🤣🤣 .

 

[coercitiv]

Naw, them being quiet is good news. We want underpromise, overdeliver right? They were pretty quiet before Core 2 launch.

Intel's current modus operandi when it comes to competitive products is the exact reverse: they become surprisingly talkative when something nice is on the horizon. My guess is Panther Lake will end up somewhere between MTL and LNL: unimpressive performance uplift but solid product overall. The main pain points will be product/node delays and lack of meaningful ST perf improvement.

 

[igor_kavinski]

lack of meaningful ST perf improvement.

Hope they finally get 5% higher ST perf than ADL/RPL in the worst scenario.

"No child should have to look at what their parent(s) did and go, damn, I can't beat that!" - Igor Kavinski 1980-2025 (?)

 

[511]

It's Lion Cove+ at the end of the day you can't expect magic out of refreshed core if it matches ARL-H St perf it's fine.
18A is a node shrink so the perf/watt would be the main thing to look out for.
New IP is the NPU/GPU.

 

[Henry swagger]

It's Lion Cove+ at the end of the day you can't expect magic out of refreshed core if it matches ARL-H St perf it's fine.
18A is a node shrink so the perf/watt would be the main thing to look out for.
New IP is the NPU/GPU.

How do ypu know its lion cove+ ? We still have to wait for architecture details. But i.m sure darkmontvwill have same ipc per clock

 

[511]

How do ypu know its lion cove+ ? We still have to wait for architecture details. But i.m sure darkmontvwill have same ipc per clock

Through Intel

https://twitter.com/x/status/1959987289150370105

 

[poke01]

It's Lion Cove+ at the end of the day you can't expect magic out of refreshed core if it matches ARL-H St perf it's fine.
18A is a node shrink so the perf/watt would be the main thing to look out for.
New IP is the NPU/GPU.

If PTL-H matches ARL-H while being 300MHz slower that is a decent IPC uplift.

Also a refreshed core/design can still bring huge improvements see, RDNA 3 to RDNA 3.5 and M4 P core to M5 P core.

 

[511]

Also a refreshed core/design can still bring huge improvements see, RDNA 3 to RDNA 3.5 and M4 P core to M5 P core.

If done properly. M4P to M5P is how much gain also not in Tab but in laptop.

 

[MoogleW]

Intel's current modus operandi when it comes to competitive products is the exact reverse: they become surprisingly talkative when something nice is on the horizon. My guess is Panther Lake will end up somewhere between MTL and LNL: unimpressive performance uplift but solid product overall. The main pain points will be product/node delays and lack of meaningful ST perf improvement.

I remember how much they started talking about Alderlake before Rockelake even launched.

Would be interesting how claimed IPC of Darkmont compares to server Darkmont and consumer Darkmont, as well as if the latency of L3 cache is also better like the L2 cache.

Hopefully the chip overall at least has minor tweaks in terms of latencies, caches or uncore that would not be immediately obvious to leakers

 

[igor_kavinski]

https://www.newegg.com/intel-core-ultra-9-285k-arrow-lake-lga-1851-desktop-cpu-processor/p/N82E16819118505

Intel getting ready to introduce something new?

 

[511]

Nothing new until NVL Hits

 

[igor_kavinski]

CS433: Computer System Organization

Interesting that from AMD side they chose Zen 2 but for Intel they chose Lunar Lake.

Do they think that Lunar Lake is the first competent Intel architecture since Haswell? Or did Intel give them incentives (like free laptops or goodies etc.) and also to promote their laptop sales?

Which reason could it be I wonder? 🙄

 

[511]

Maybe had to to with availability

 

[igor_kavinski]

Maybe had to to with availability

That makes no sense. Zen 5 architecture details/slides are not hard to find.

 

[dullard]

Intel getting ready to introduce something new?

Newegg is having their FantasTech sale which covers products from many companies. So, that sale price does not necessarily mean anything.

A Q1 2026 launch date could be interpreted from John Pitzer's recent comments. "We've got a couple of holes we've got to fill on the desktop front. But quite frankly, we feel confident in the road map [...] We'll have a refresh of Arrow Lake next year, which will help start the process on the desktop side" https://www.tomshardware.com/pc-com...top-front-says-it-is-confident-in-the-roadmap

However, a late Q4 2025 launch date could technically also fit that same statement (since they will have a refresh next year if it launched late this year). These desktop chips were all launched the first week of October through the first week of November: Coffee Lake, Coffee Lake Refresh, Alder Lake, Raptor Lake, Raptor Lake Refresh, and Arrow Lake.

 

[Fjodor2001]

Binning all over the place. Silicon hitting the highest speeds must be harder for them to find.

Maybe they are binning @ 5, 5.5 and 6 GHz. 😉

No but seriously, what kind of binning frequency steps are you suggesting, e.g. 100 or 200 Hz bump per higher SKU step? And then for the top SKU it's intended to win review crowns, but being available in very limited quantities, and priced accordingly very high compared to the other SKUs?

 

[511]

Maybe they are binning @ 5, 5.5 and 6 GHz. 😉

No but seriously, what kind of binning frequency steps are you suggesting, e.g. 100 or 200 Hz bump per higher SKU step? And then for the top SKU it's intended to win review crowns, but being available in very limited quantities, and priced accordingly very high compared to the other SKUs?

5.1 GHz for Ultra 9 SKU is pretty much confirmed they hit QS already
Basically a repeat of 288/268/258V.

 

[jpiniero]

Not enough 5GHz+ yields.

Yeah. The top one is a meme of meme volume, mainly for benchmark purposes. Intel's done this before. The lower 7 bin is the one that OEMs will use.

 

[igor_kavinski]

Maybe they are binning @ 5, 5.5 and 6 GHz. 😉

HAHA!

No but seriously, what kind of binning frequency steps are you suggesting, e.g. 100 or 200 Hz bump per higher SKU step? And then for the top SKU it's intended to win review crowns, but being available in very limited quantities, and priced accordingly very high compared to the other SKUs?

200 MHz steps at most. They may even restrict certain boosting algos for just the X9 or Ultra 9 SKUs for people who can't handle FOMO.

 

[igor_kavinski]

Basically a repeat of 288/268/258V.

Of these, I've seen exactly one 288V laptop on my local Amazon. Most others were 258V. And the 226V was obviously the most affordable.

 

[511]

Yeah. The top one is a meme of meme volume, mainly for benchmark purposes. Intel's done this before. The lower 7 bin is the one that OEMs will use.

LNL has the same issues most laptops are 258/256V

 

[fastandfurious6]

Intel H chips are too weak

No real market... bet Phoenix still better than panther H

 

[poke01]

Intel H chips are too weak

No real market... bet Phoenix still better than panther H

Can I tell you something? Those X3D laptop chips that you like so much are irrelevant and don’t even contribute to any meaningful volume. Maybe get this into that AMD soaked skull of yours, NOT EVERYTHING IS ABOUT ABSOLUTE PERFORMANCE.