Discussion Intel Meteor, Arrow, Lunar & Panther Lakes + WCL Discussion Threads

[Tigerick]

Wildcat Lake (WCL) Preliminary Specs

Intel Wildcat Lake (WCL) is upcoming mobile SoC replacing ADL-N. WCL consists of 2 tiles: compute tile and PCD tile. It is true single die consists of CPU, GPU and NPU that is fabbed by 18-A process. Last time I checked, PCD tile is fabbed by TSMC N6 process. They are connected through UCIe, not D2D; a first from Intel. Expecting launching in Q2/Computex 2026. In case people don't remember AlderLake-N, I have created a table below to compare the detail specs of ADL-N and WCL. Just for fun, I am throwing LNL and upcoming Mediatek D9500 SoC.

		Intel Alder Lake - N	Intel Wildcat Lake	Intel Lunar Lake		Mediatek D9500
Launch Date		Q1-2023	Q2-2026 ?	Q3-2024		Q3-2025
Model		Intel N300	?	Core Ultra 7 268V		Dimensity 9500 5G
Dies		2	2	2		1
Node		Intel 7 + ?	Intel 18-A + TSMC N6	TSMC N3B + N6		TSMC N3P
CPU		8 E-cores	2 P-core + 4 LP E-cores	4 P-core + 4 LP E-cores		C1 1+3+4
Threads		8	6	8		8
Max Clock		3.8 GHz	?	5 GHz
L3 Cache		6 MB	?	12 MB
TDP		7 W	Fanless ?	17 W		Fanless
Memory		64-bit LPDDR5-4800	64-bit LPDDR5-6800 ?	128-bit LPDDR5X-8533		64-bit LPDDR5X-10667
Size		16 GB	?	32 GB		24 GB ?
Bandwidth			~ 55 GB/s	136 GB/s		85.6 GB/s
GPU		UHD Graphics		Arc 140V		G1 Ultra
EU / Xe		32 EU	2 Xe	8 Xe		12
Max Clock		1.25 GHz		2 GHz
NPU		NA	18 TOPS	48 TOPS		100 TOPS ?

As Hot Chips 34 starting this week, Intel will unveil technical information of upcoming Meteor Lake (MTL) and Arrow Lake (ARL), new generation platform after Raptor Lake. Both MTL and ARL represent new direction which Intel will move to multiple chiplets and combine as one SoC platform.

MTL also represents new compute tile that based on Intel 4 process which is based on EUV lithography, a first from Intel. Intel expects to ship MTL mobile SoC in 2023.

ARL will come after MTL so Intel should be shipping it in 2024, that is what Intel roadmap is telling us. ARL compute tile will be manufactured by Intel 20A process, a first from Intel to use GAA transistors called RibbonFET.

 

[511]

Spoiler: Things a certain someone pulled from his butt maybe?

I (Intel) moved off the Panther Lake project half a year ago, but with the caveat out of the way -- when I worked on it, it wasn't looking great. Yields were horrible, we had to deal with constantly dying test boards, and everyone was pulling overtime shifts in an attempt to launch it early because leadership knew it can't compete with Zen 6.

Panther Lake isn't looking like a worst-case scenario anymore, but compared to our (Intel) TSMC products this has bad yields. Nova Lake is turning out much better though!

(Major OEM) Panther lake seems like another Meteor Lake situation, but maybe with the CPU not going backwards, and the iGPU keeping up with AMD.

(Major OEM) Despite the issues, I think Panther Lake will be capable of replacing LNL and ARL, but it's not the massive upgrade we wanted.

Noo I fell for MLID Slop

 

[igor_kavinski]

Noo I fell for MLID Slop

So if we go for opposite, PTL will be good and NVL will be a disaster?

 

[511]

PTL will be a good product overall not the best though in terms of CPU Perf it's GPU for it's dual channel setup is very good and so are the rest of the IP.
For NVL it's too many unknowns right now

 

[adroc_thurston]

Noo I fell for MLID Slop

I wonder how long does it take for him to make all that stuff up.
People in the industry just don't talk like that.

PTL will be a good product overall not the best though in terms of CPU Perf it's GPU for it's dual channel setup is very good and so are the rest of the IP.

cost suxx doe.
It'll be margin-expansive vs N3b parts when it ramps at least.

So if we go for opposite, PTL will be good and NVL will be a disaster?

no.

 

[igor_kavinski]

People in the industry just don't talk like that.

Janitors do, though.

 

[Josh128]

Spoiler: Things a certain someone pulled from his butt maybe?

I (Intel) moved off the Panther Lake project half a year ago, but with the caveat out of the way -- when I worked on it, it wasn't looking great. Yields were horrible, we had to deal with constantly dying test boards, and everyone was pulling overtime shifts in an attempt to launch it early because leadership knew it can't compete with Zen 6.

Panther Lake isn't looking like a worst-case scenario anymore, but compared to our (Intel) TSMC products this has bad yields. Nova Lake is turning out much better though!

(Major OEM) Panther lake seems like another Meteor Lake situation, but maybe with the CPU not going backwards, and the iGPU keeping up with AMD.

(Major OEM) Despite the issues, I think Panther Lake will be capable of replacing LNL and ARL, but it's not the massive upgrade we wanted.

?? Which part. Is it turning out better than anticipated? Cause this seems merely ~meh / passable.

 

[511]

?? Which part. Is it turning out better than anticipated? Cause this seems merely ~meh / passable.

It's MLID Leak he will 100% try to throw shades at it

 

[igor_kavinski]

?? Which part. Is it turning out better than anticipated? Cause this seems merely ~meh / passable.

The janitor knows! I don't know why these janitors can't make an account on AT and just tell us straight rather than going to that weirdo. I wonder if he is paying them or something.

 

[511]

cost suxx doe.
It'll be margin-expansive vs N3b parts when it ramps at least.

Ramp is a given tbh TSMC incurs ramp cost as well they just have large volume to cover it up. It will be a lot better if you count over all Intel cost for IFS+Product

 

[regen1]

 

[CouncilorIrissa]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1974438809661313299

Looks like the October event will be a relative nothingburger.

 

[poke01]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1974438809661313299

Looks like the October event will be a relative nothingburger.

Is that cause maybe performance is essentially the same vs Arrow lake?


But Golden pig is optimistic so maybe there is something good about the CPU and 18A

 

[Josh128]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1974438809661313299

Looks like the October event will be a relative nothingburger.

Thats sounds like Intel lingo for "we need more time to polish this turd".

 

[Josh128]

Is that cause maybe performance is essentially the same vs Arrow lake?


But Golden pig is optimistic so maybe there is something good about the CPU and 18A

What did Golden pig say? In any case, if its even marginally objectively better than Arrow Lake or Lunar Lake, that means Intel has a process that matches TSMCs N3B in perf and power efficiency, which is significant. If so, yield will be what makes or breaks it.


**EDIT: This is what they said.

 

[poke01]

What did Golden pig say? In any case, if its even marginally objectively better than Arrow Lake or Lunar Lake, that means Intel has a process that matches TSMCs N3B in perf and power efficiency, which is significant. If so, yield will be what makes or breaks it.


**EDIT: This is what they said.


View attachment 131455

I gather “good food is not afraid of being late” to be a positive connotation meaning Panther lake is worth the wait

 

[Thunder 57]

I thought PTL was seeing a limited release late this year? Wouldn't we get performance numbers from it if that was true?

 

[Josh128]

I thought PTL was seeing a limited release late this year? Wouldn't we get performance numbers from it if that was true?

Remember this is Intel. 10nm was supposed to launch in 2015. We arent getting squat this year, apparently.

 

[511]

I thought PTL was seeing a limited release late this year? Wouldn't we get performance numbers from it if that was true?

Intel should share performance number they always do but it will be first party the architecture is more or less the same for CPU with minor tweaks.

 

[511]

Remember this is Intel. 10nm was supposed to launch in 2015. We arent getting squat this year, apparently.

Intel client are OEM though even if they ship 500K PTL Samples to their direct Client they can still call it a launch.

 

[poke01]

Intel client are OEM though even if they ship 500K PTL Samples to their direct Client they can still call it a launch.

This is playing at words though. A launch typically means on shelves ready to buy.

You know kinda like how lunar lake was ready in September and it launched in September. None of this word gymnastics then.

 

[511]

This is playing at words though. A launch typically means on shelves ready to buy.

They will word play but in their book they can recognize it as revenue if the product has been shipped to OEM and OEM paid Intel. They have legally launched PTL and customer has bought it and they delivered the product.

You know kinda like how lunar lake was ready in September and it launched in September. None of this word gymnastics then.

N3B was ready a whole year before LNL launched that but the QS is already done otherwise they wouldn't have done the event.

 

[igor_kavinski]

ChatGPT, please generate an audio clip saying "Lame!" in different angry voices with increasing volume till it reaches max volume and then say, "We love you, Intel!" in a beautiful heart warming voice.

 

[poke01]

Actually when do the OEMs pay Intel for their CPUs?

 

[igor_kavinski]

Actually when do the OEMs pay Intel for their CPUs?

I'm guessing behind a closed doors auction event.

 

[511]

Actually when do the OEMs pay Intel for their CPUs?

In advance that's for sure 🤣