Discussion Intel Meteor, Arrow, Lunar & Panther Lakes + WCL Discussion Threads

[Tigerick]

Wildcat Lake (WCL) Specs

Intel Wildcat Lake (WCL) is upcoming mobile SoC replacing Raptor Lake-U. WCL consists of 2 tiles: compute tile and PCD tile. It is true single die consists of CPU, GPU and NPU that is fabbed by 18-A process. Last time I checked, PCD tile is fabbed by TSMC N6 process. They are connected through UCIe, not D2D; a first from Intel. Expecting launching in Q1 2026.

		Intel Raptor Lake U	Intel Wildcat Lake 15W?	Intel Lunar Lake		Intel Panther Lake 4+4+4
Launch Date		Q1-2024	Q2-2026	Q3-2024		Q1-2026
Model		Intel 150U	Intel Core 7	Core Ultra 7 268V		Core Ultra 7 365
Dies		2	2	2		3
Node		Intel 7 + ?	Intel 18-A + TSMC N6	TSMC N3B + N6		Intel 18-A + Intel 3 + TSMC N6
CPU		2 P-core + 8 E-cores	2 P-core + 4 LP E-cores	4 P-core + 4 LP E-cores		4 P-core + 4 LP E-cores
Threads		12	6	8		8
Max Clock		5.4 GHz	?	5 GHz		4.8 GHz
L3 Cache		12 MB		12 MB		12 MB
TDP		15 - 55 W	15 W ?	17 - 37 W		25 - 55 W
Memory		128-bit LPDDR5-5200	64-bit LPDDR5	128-bit LPDDR5x-8533		128-bit LPDDR5x-7467
Size		96 GB		32 GB		128 GB
Bandwidth				136 GB/s
GPU		Intel Graphics	Intel Graphics	Arc 140V		Intel Graphics
RT		No	No	YES		YES
EU / Xe		96 EU	2 Xe	8 Xe		4 Xe
Max Clock		1.3 GHz	?	2 GHz		2.5 GHz
NPU		GNA 3.0	18 TOPS	48 TOPS		49 TOPS

As Hot Chips 34 starting this week, Intel will unveil technical information of upcoming Meteor Lake (MTL) and Arrow Lake (ARL), new generation platform after Raptor Lake. Both MTL and ARL represent new direction which Intel will move to multiple chiplets and combine as one SoC platform.

MTL also represents new compute tile that based on Intel 4 process which is based on EUV lithography, a first from Intel. Intel expects to ship MTL mobile SoC in 2023.

ARL will come after MTL so Intel should be shipping it in 2024, that is what Intel roadmap is telling us. ARL compute tile will be manufactured by Intel 20A process, a first from Intel to use GAA transistors called RibbonFET.

 

[511]

For 14+... And for 10nm/Intel 7, they improved frequencies through successively reducing logic density by small increments (excluding super fin, which was an actual change in the XTOR shape).

Intel 3 was not such case though same with Intel 7+.

 

[ToTTenTranz]

~50% if it doesn't get botched by memory bandwidth in the game

A 50% boost in gaming performance over Lunar Lake would be a huge improvement. If Intel pulls it off due to increased L2 and iGPU access to L3, we'd be seeing a leap in iGPU performance we haven't seen since AMD introduced RDNA2 in Rembrandt.

 

[Meteor Late]

Different uArch?

Also why are we talking MLIDs sensei seriously

Intel hasn't had any groundbreaking IPC increase with Lion Cove, safe to say Cougar Cove will barely increase IPC from what we've heard, nothing to justify reduced clocks, if it does, then CPU team is even worse than previously thought.

 

[511]

Intel hasn't had any groundbreaking IPC increase with Lion Cove, safe to say Cougar Cove will barely increase IPC from what we've heard, nothing to justify reduced clocks, if it does, then CPU team is even worse than previously thought.

The P core team is considerably worse for sure can you say the same about the E core team ?

 

[LightningZ71]

Intel 3 was not such case though same with Intel 7+.

agreed. Intel 4 was not feature complete as a node. Intel 3 was the target end product of the project.

 

[511]

Intel’s Next-Gen Nova Lake-H Mobile CPUs Leak: Ultra X7, Ultra 5, and X9 Models

We bring you the latest PC hardware, technology, gaming news and reviews.

www.indiekings.com

 

[Kepler_L2]

View attachment 131319
View attachment 131318

Intel’s Next-Gen Nova Lake-H Mobile CPUs Leak: Ultra X7, Ultra 5, and X9 Models

We bring you the latest PC hardware, technology, gaming news and reviews.

www.indiekings.com

Finally real leaks

 

[adroc_thurston]

can you say the same about the E core team ?

Until they fix their power methodology, yes.
They're still much better than the IDC doe.

 

[511]

Until they fix their power methodology, yes.

Tbh they have never been assigned the proper budget unlike the Zen/Intel P core team only with start of unified core they have been assigned.
IDC P core team is a clown show tbh at this point they are still stuck on old methodology.

Finally real leaks

You missed the real leak

 

[Kepler_L2]

You missed the real leak

Which one?

 

[Philste]

Finally real leaks

So what name will Panther Lake have if Nova Lake is 300 series? Or is this "X" stuff something different again?

Edit: Or it's just the title of the Article being wrong and this is Panther Lake?

 

[511]

Which one?

The WCL PPW leak

Page 7 - News - NVIDIA and Intel to Develop AI Infrastructure and Personal Computing Products

Page 7 - Seeking answers? Join the AnandTech community: where nearly half-a-million members share solutions and discuss the latest tech.

forums.anandtech.com

 

[511]

So what name will Panther Lake have if Nova Lake is 300 series? Or is this "X" stuff something different again?

Edit: Or it's just the title of the Article being wrong and this is Panther Lake?

NVL can be 400 Sereis

 

[Kepler_L2]

Edit: Or it's just the title of the Article being wrong and this is Panther Lake?

Oh yeah I didn't notice the title of the article, they got PTL and NVL mixed up somehow.

 

[mikk]

388H and 368H is misleading if the 388H has the smaller 4Xe iGPU and 368H the 12Xe iGPU. Something seems wrong there.

 

[adroc_thurston]

388H and 368H is misleading if the 388H has the smaller 4Xe iGPU and 368H the 12Xe iGPU. Something seems wrong there.

the X and Ultra and stuff say it all

 

[CouncilorIrissa]

We're discussing LLM-generated leaks now, congrats, that's an achievement.

 

[adroc_thurston]

We're discussing LLM-generated leaks now, congrats, that's an achievement.

The age of Slop is now.
Forevermore.

 

[poke01]

What’s the TDP of Panther Lake? Looks like it’s 28W and 45W parts which would indicate Arrow Lake successors

 

[Kepler_L2]

What’s the TDP of Panther Lake? Looks like it’s 28W and 45W parts which would indicate Arrow Lake successors

IIRC PL1 is same as Arrow Lake but PL2 is slightly down.

 

[adroc_thurston]

IIRC PL1 is same as Arrow Lake but PL2 is slightly down.

It's hard to make the PL2 go up with outright less cores and cache YoY.

 

[regen1]

For 14+... And for 10nm/Intel 7, they improved frequencies through successively reducing logic density by small increments (excluding super fin, which was an actual change in the XTOR shape).

Yeah but other factors like process node maturity, evolution with time,
u-arch and design targets etc. can also affect.

Mentioned example of TGL i7 1185G7 and 1195G7, gained frequency on same node 9 months apart.
Similarly, i9 12900H(Max 5GHz, Jan/Feb 2022)--> i7 13900H(Max 5.4GHz, Jan 2023) -->Core 9 270H(Max 5.8GHz, Dec 2024) all on Intel 7 timeline(among other things there was also a full PDK update to Intel 7).

 

[regen1]

What’s the TDP of Panther Lake? Looks like it’s 28W and 45W parts which would indicate Arrow Lake successors

Prelim specs in Feb as per this post:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1890370513710576025

 

[Magio]

Prelim specs in Feb as per this post:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1890370513710576025

View attachment 131346

I really hope we'll get more than a few designs that target a sub 40W cTDP on the 12Xe³ SKU, 30W really is the sweet spot for thin and lights and if you go above that you might as well get a dGPU.

 

[igor_kavinski]

Spoiler: Things a certain someone pulled from his butt maybe?

I (Intel) moved off the Panther Lake project half a year ago, but with the caveat out of the way -- when I worked on it, it wasn't looking great. Yields were horrible, we had to deal with constantly dying test boards, and everyone was pulling overtime shifts in an attempt to launch it early because leadership knew it can't compete with Zen 6.

Panther Lake isn't looking like a worst-case scenario anymore, but compared to our (Intel) TSMC products this has bad yields. Nova Lake is turning out much better though!

(Major OEM) Panther lake seems like another Meteor Lake situation, but maybe with the CPU not going backwards, and the iGPU keeping up with AMD.

(Major OEM) Despite the issues, I think Panther Lake will be capable of replacing LNL and ARL, but it's not the massive upgrade we wanted.