Discussion Intel Meteor, Arrow, Lunar & Panther Lakes + WCL Discussion Threads

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Tigerick

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Apr 1, 2022
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Wildcat Lake (WCL) Preliminary Specs

Intel Wildcat Lake (WCL) is upcoming mobile SoC replacing ADL-N. WCL consists of 2 tiles: compute tile and PCD tile. It is true single die consists of CPU, GPU and NPU that is fabbed by 18-A process. Last time I checked, PCD tile is fabbed by TSMC N6 process. They are connected through UCIe, not D2D; a first from Intel. Expecting launching in Q2/Computex 2026. In case people don't remember AlderLake-N, I have created a table below to compare the detail specs of ADL-N and WCL. Just for fun, I am throwing LNL and upcoming Mediatek D9500 SoC.

Intel Alder Lake - NIntel Wildcat LakeIntel Lunar LakeMediatek D9500
Launch DateQ1-2023Q2-2026 ?Q3-2024Q3-2025
ModelIntel N300?Core Ultra 7 268VDimensity 9500 5G
Dies2221
NodeIntel 7 + ?Intel 18-A + TSMC N6TSMC N3B + N6TSMC N3P
CPU8 E-cores2 P-core + 4 LP E-cores4 P-core + 4 LP E-coresC1 1+3+4
Threads8688
Max Clock3.8 GHz?5 GHz
L3 Cache6 MB?12 MB
TDP7 WFanless ?17 WFanless
Memory64-bit LPDDR5-480064-bit LPDDR5-6800 ?128-bit LPDDR5X-853364-bit LPDDR5X-10667
Size16 GB?32 GB24 GB ?
Bandwidth~ 55 GB/s136 GB/s85.6 GB/s
GPUUHD GraphicsArc 140VG1 Ultra
EU / Xe32 EU2 Xe8 Xe12
Max Clock1.25 GHz2 GHz
NPUNA18 TOPS48 TOPS100 TOPS ?






PPT1.jpg
PPT2.jpg
PPT3.jpg



As Hot Chips 34 starting this week, Intel will unveil technical information of upcoming Meteor Lake (MTL) and Arrow Lake (ARL), new generation platform after Raptor Lake. Both MTL and ARL represent new direction which Intel will move to multiple chiplets and combine as one SoC platform.

MTL also represents new compute tile that based on Intel 4 process which is based on EUV lithography, a first from Intel. Intel expects to ship MTL mobile SoC in 2023.

ARL will come after MTL so Intel should be shipping it in 2024, that is what Intel roadmap is telling us. ARL compute tile will be manufactured by Intel 20A process, a first from Intel to use GAA transistors called RibbonFET.



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511

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Josh128 said:
Absolutely, as 18A was supposed to be the absolute best process available. Now people are saying its ~N3. I dont buy that.
Click to expand...
A node can't magically fix a uArch it would only provide efficiency/Power mprovements if you don't make a new uArch.
 
dullard

dullard

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May 21, 2001
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Josh128 said:
Absolutely, as 18A was supposed to be the absolute best process available. Now people are saying its ~N3. I dont buy that.
Click to expand...
Rumors originally had Intel using high NA with 18A. If that ever was a plan, it was dropped quite a while ago. The end result is Intel has been saying for quite some time that 18A will be equivalent to slightly better.

This slide is a year and a half old (at least):
1757627000793.png
https://www.techspot.com/news/102491-intel-past-mistakes-contributed-foundry-business-losing-7.html
 
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DavidC1

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Dec 29, 2023
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Josh128 said:
Uh, yeah. My point is that modern OLEDs are acceptably resistant to burn in provided you dont watch CNN all day or play a game with a HUD in the same spot for 4 hours a day for years, and the image quality and motion clarity is unmatched by LCD.
Click to expand...
You sound like that Blizzard guy claiming "Don't you guys have phones" when people complained about a mobile game being advertised in front of a mostly PC audience, or Apple telling it's customers that "you aren't holding it right" when the reception sucks.

Tech is to the benefit of US, not the other way around. "Tweak your usage patterns to make up for serious deficiencies". What a joke. Remember when you are defending these companies or technologies, they don't care an ounce about you.
 
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Josh128

Josh128

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Oct 14, 2022
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dullard said:
Rumors originally had Intel using high NA with 18A. If that ever was a plan, it was dropped quite a while ago. The end result is Intel has been saying for quite some time that 18A will be equivalent to slightly better.

This slide is a year and a half old (at least):
View attachment 130073
https://www.techspot.com/news/102491-intel-past-mistakes-contributed-foundry-business-losing-7.html
Click to expand...
Are you trying to say that this slide is saying that 18A is equal to Intel 7 outside of advanced packaging? That Intel 3 worse than Intel 7 in density? This slide lacks context. I believe it means relative to TSMCs equivalent nodes, but Im not sure.
 
Josh128

Josh128

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Oct 14, 2022
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DavidC1 said:
You sound like that Blizzard guy claiming "Don't you guys have phones" when people complained about a mobile game being advertised in front of a mostly PC audience, or Apple telling it's customers that "you aren't holding it right" when the reception sucks.

Tech is to the benefit of US, not the other way around. "Tweak your usage patterns to make up for serious deficiencies". What a joke. Remember when you are defending these companies or technologies, they don't care an ounce about you.
Click to expand...
No, I dont. Im saying LCD is shit as a motion display technology relative to plasma and OLED. Its shit brother. Its best use case is the menus at McDonalds. Its great for that, its the best for that. For movies & games, where you want the best (by far) picture and motion clarity, OLED is the objectively the best. Contrast and motion resolution numbers prove that-- its not subjective or even up for debate. Are you denying that?
 
dullard

dullard

Elite Member
May 21, 2001
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Josh128 said:
Are you trying to say that this slide is saying that 18A is equal to Intel 7 outside of advanced packaging? That Intel 3 worse than Intel 7 in density? This slide lacks context. I believe it means relative to TSMCs equivalent nodes, but Im not sure.
Click to expand...
It was Intel trying to say that 18A is equivalent to slightly better than the TSMC equivalent node. Basically not even Intel itself said 18A is "supposed to be the absolute best process available". Intel thinks that will be 14A based on their slide.
 
A

alcoholbob

Diamond Member
May 24, 2005
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Josh128 said:
No, I dont. Im saying LCD is shit as a motion display technology relative to plasma and OLED. Its shit brother. Its best use case is the menus at McDonalds. Its great for that, its the best for that. For movies & games, where you want the best (by far) picture and motion clarity, OLED is the objectively the best. Contrast and motion resolution numbers prove that-- its not subjective or even up for debate. Are you denying that?
Click to expand...

Competitive e-sports gaming it's great. Luminance overshoot and poor HDR performance in bright scenes, higher prevalence of banding and DSE, and VRR flicker is a trade-off you have to decide between for slower fps single player games compared to Mini LED displays.
 
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511

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Jul 12, 2024
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This is MTL/ARL/PTLA thread not a display thread 🙂 unless you wanna talk about new Display IP in Panther Lake
 
R

reaperrr3

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May 31, 2024
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igor_kavinski said:
I hope it's N3B+ :p

One can hope that LBT got on one knee and begged them to give them slightly better process node characteristics.
Click to expand...
Doubtful, at least I doubt TSMC would do that out the goodness of their heart, only for good money, which Intel doesn't have anymore.

The ARL-Refresh clock increases are probably just process maturity improvements leading to slightly better yields/less chip quality variation + slightly more aggressive binning + maybe a new stepping for the compute chiplet with further clock and/or yield optimizations from Intel's side.
The rest of the performance improvement is probably just "IPC"/latency improvements from less conservative D2D communication speeds and all that.

I fully expect ARL refresh to be underwhelming, apart from reduced worst-case outliers.
 
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igor_kavinski

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Jul 27, 2020
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It's so funny that Intel CPU teams created these scary architecture codenames "Raptor" "Lion" "Panther" etc. and they all fell short. Gotta wonder if they are coming up with the names because someone senior and important has kid(s) with these plush toys :D
 
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