Discussion Intel Meteor, Arrow, Lunar & Panther Lakes + WCL Discussion Threads

[Tigerick]

Wildcat Lake (WCL) Specs

Intel Wildcat Lake (WCL) is upcoming mobile SoC replacing Raptor Lake-U. WCL consists of 2 tiles: compute tile and PCD tile. It is true single die consists of CPU, GPU and NPU that is fabbed by 18-A process. Last time I checked, PCD tile is fabbed by TSMC N6 process. They are connected through UCIe, not D2D; a first from Intel. Expecting launching in Q1 2026.

		Intel Raptor Lake U	Intel Wildcat Lake 15W?	Intel Lunar Lake		Intel Panther Lake 4+4+4
Launch Date		Q1-2024	Q2-2026	Q3-2024		Q1-2026
Model		Intel 150U	Intel Core 7	Core Ultra 7 268V		Core Ultra 7 365
Dies		2	2	2		3
Node		Intel 7 + ?	Intel 18-A + TSMC N6	TSMC N3B + N6		Intel 18-A + Intel 3 + TSMC N6
CPU		2 P-core + 8 E-cores	2 P-core + 4 LP E-cores	4 P-core + 4 LP E-cores		4 P-core + 4 LP E-cores
Threads		12	6	8		8
Max Clock		5.4 GHz	?	5 GHz		4.8 GHz
L3 Cache		12 MB		12 MB		12 MB
TDP		15 - 55 W	15 W ?	17 - 37 W		25 - 55 W
Memory		128-bit LPDDR5-5200	64-bit LPDDR5	128-bit LPDDR5x-8533		128-bit LPDDR5x-7467
Size		96 GB		32 GB		128 GB
Bandwidth				136 GB/s
GPU		Intel Graphics	Intel Graphics	Arc 140V		Intel Graphics
RT		No	No	YES		YES
EU / Xe		96 EU	2 Xe	8 Xe		4 Xe
Max Clock		1.3 GHz	?	2 GHz		2.5 GHz
NPU		GNA 3.0	18 TOPS	48 TOPS		49 TOPS

As Hot Chips 34 starting this week, Intel will unveil technical information of upcoming Meteor Lake (MTL) and Arrow Lake (ARL), new generation platform after Raptor Lake. Both MTL and ARL represent new direction which Intel will move to multiple chiplets and combine as one SoC platform.

MTL also represents new compute tile that based on Intel 4 process which is based on EUV lithography, a first from Intel. Intel expects to ship MTL mobile SoC in 2023.

ARL will come after MTL so Intel should be shipping it in 2024, that is what Intel roadmap is telling us. ARL compute tile will be manufactured by Intel 20A process, a first from Intel to use GAA transistors called RibbonFET.

 

[ToTTenTranz]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1965445110054916255

Even if CPU performance and efficiency underperforms, Panther Lake's 12x Xe3 iGPU with 16MB L2 plus access to 18MB L3 seems really promising.

New MLID "Leak" Panther Lake is being nicknamed "Pathetic Lake" by board partners testing it.

If that NPU really is trouble, then Intel should just disable it. The iGPU alone should be able to reach above 100TOPS by itself, when making use of the XMX units.

 

[511]

Even if CPU performance and efficiency underperforms, Panther Lake's 12x Xe3 iGPU with 16MB L2 plus access to 18MB L3 seems really promising.

That's MLIDs Claim

If that NPU really is trouble, then Intel should just disable it. The iGPU alone should be able to reach above 100TOPS by itself, when making use of the XMX units.

120 TOPS for iGPU nearly the same as RTX 4060(131 Int8 TOPS)

 

[Doug S]

OLED burn in is overstated. I still have 4 2013 & 2014 model Samsung plasmas in my house, most of them get daily use, and they all still have stunning pictures. The advantages of OLED over LCD are 100% worth it over any disadvantages.

Uh, you realize plasma is a different thing than OLED, right?

The main issue with OLED is blue pixel life being shorter than red/green. Pixels of different colors fading at different rates accounts for what we observe as "burn in". That's what tandem OLED is intended to solve, at least until there is some breakthrough in blue pixel lifetime.

 

[Thunder 57]

I'm more bothered about having a finite lifespan. It's like SSDs, but worse. Same with electric cars. SSDs at least last long enough on average use. Electric cars turns your fuel tank be the bottleneck in obsolescence and have trash resale value, and OLEDs will eventually have significant burn in so in average use it'll likely die.

They might make sense for TV's where no parts of the image are static but I'm just fine with IPS for now.

Uh, you realize plasma is a different thing than OLED, right?

The main issue with OLED is blue pixel life being shorter than red/green. Pixels of different colors fading at different rates accounts for what we observe as "burn in". That's what tandem OLED is intended to solve, at least until there is some breakthrough in blue pixel lifetime.

And suddenly what I wrote above might be bunk. I wasn't aware this was the problem. But hey, even more time for the tech to mature and hopefully get cheaper before I have to think about it!

 

[igor_kavinski]

The main issue with OLED is blue pixel life being shorter than red/green. Pixels of different colors fading at different rates accounts for what we observe as "burn in". That's what tandem OLED is intended to solve, at least until there is some breakthrough in blue pixel lifetime.

That's why LG uses WRGB pixels in their OLEDs (or at least used to. Not sure about their current line-up) to prolong the blue pixel's life.

 

[igor_kavinski]

And suddenly what I wrote above might be bunk. I wasn't aware this was the problem. But hey, even more time for the tech to mature and hopefully get cheaper before I have to think about it!

It mostly works fine for three years minimum if you take good care (let it wear level by not turning it off completely and letting it "sleep") and watch varied content. It's perfectly fine to use as a secondary "premium viewing experience" display. Not as a primary work and play display.

If you have never used an OLED, it makes a kind of annoying low frequency whirring sound when it's scrubbing the pixels during sleep mode.

 

[Thunder 57]

It mostly works fine for three years minimum if you take good care (let it wear level by not turning it off completely and letting it "sleep") and watch varied content. It's perfectly fine to use as a secondary "premium viewing experience" display. Not as a primary work and play display.

If you have never used an OLED, it makes a kind of annoying low frequency whirring sound when it's scrubbing the pixels during sleep mode.

Three years is garbage for a display. An expensive one at that, compared to IPS/VA.

 

[igor_kavinski]

Three years is garbage for a display. An expensive one at that, compared to IPS/VA.

It's not that expensive anymore. If you absolutely love HDR and vivid colors and just amazing visual quality, it's worth the price even for 3 years. Besides, that's just my estimate. No one has enough time to consume content eight or more hours a day so it will definitely last longer with proper care. Don't buy it though if you are not accustomed to viewing content in a dimly lit room. It doesn't look its best in bright ambient light. For bright room viewing, QNED is probably the answer. Or maybe QD-OLED.

 

[Thunder 57]

It's not that expensive anymore. If you absolutely love HDR and vivid colors and just amazing visual quality, it's worth the price even for 3 years. Besides, that's just my estimate. No one has enough time to consume content eight or more hours a day so it will definitely last longer with proper care. Don't buy it though if you are not accustomed to viewing content in a dimly lit room. It doesn't look its best in bright ambient light. For bright room viewing, QNED is probably the answer. Or maybe QD-OLED.

Unfortunatly everything is expensive when you have multiple medical issues .Most of it is managable but I just got a tooth problem not even a week ago and insurance does jack all for it.

 

[poke01]

September, no Geekbench panther lake leaks

What they made this generation so secretive cause the performance sucks or what…

 

[Thunder 57]

September, no Geekbench panther lake leaks

What they made this generation so secretive cause the performance sucks or what…

Maybe they plugged all leaks 🤣. Who knows. Tom's has an article where they say Nova will have a limited launch late next year (K series?) rolling into 2027 for volume it sounds like. 18A can't be that late, right? Or is Panther Lake N3B and I'm having a brain fart? I thought at least part of PTL was 18A.

 

[511]

Maybe they plugged all leaks 🤣. Who knows. Tom's has an article where they say Nova will have a limited launch late next year (K series?) rolling into 2027 for volume it sounds like. 18A can't be that late, right? Or is Panther Lake N3B and I'm having a brain fart? I thought at least part of PTL was 18A.

NVL-S will launch End of 26 rest CES 27

September, no Geekbench panther lake leaks

What they made this generation so secretive cause the performance sucks or what…

Maybe Intel tightened the leash around Partners

 

[Josh128]

Uh, you realize plasma is a different thing than OLED, right?

The main issue with OLED is blue pixel life being shorter than red/green. Pixels of different colors fading at different rates accounts for what we observe as "burn in". That's what tandem OLED is intended to solve, at least until there is some breakthrough in blue pixel lifetime.

Uh, yeah. My point is that modern OLEDs are acceptably resistant to burn in provided you dont watch CNN all day or play a game with a HUD in the same spot for 4 hours a day for years, and the image quality and motion clarity is unmatched by LCD.

 

[ToTTenTranz]

That's MLIDs Claim

Well it's the claim from anyone looking at the specs. Intel is putting a lot of die area on Panther Lake's iGPU.

September, no Geekbench panther lake leaks

What they made this generation so secretive cause the performance sucks or what…

This is from yesterday:

Intel Fixes Panther Lake Xe3 Graphics Performance Issues For Linux Ahead Of Launch - Phoronix

www.phoronix.com

 

[511]

Well it's the claim from anyone looking at the specs. Intel is putting a lot of die area on Panther Lake's iGPU.

If you look vs LNL Xe2 it's 35% Area increase for 50% more Xe3 cores and 2X L2
There are lots of changes in Xe3 and N3B is slightly denser than N3E as well so it's PPA is improved as well

 

[deasd]

September, no Geekbench panther lake leaks

What they made this generation so secretive cause the performance sucks or what…

Well it's the claim from anyone looking at the specs. Intel is putting a lot of die area on Panther Lake's iGPU.



This is from yesterday:

Intel Fixes Panther Lake Xe3 Graphics Performance Issues For Linux Ahead Of Launch - Phoronix

www.phoronix.com

for an example and reminder, a bench leak should be something like this below:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1661000902931787777

Intel Core Ultra 7 CPU Benchmark Leak Gives A First Look At Meteor Lake's Performance

Another Meteor Lake CPU branded as 'Core Ultra' has popped up in a public benchmark database.

hothardware.com

Meteor Lake's bench leak was found 7 months ahead of its paper launch.

 

[511]

I can think of only one reason Intel has tightened things regarding leaks and stuff.

 

[ToTTenTranz]

I can think of only one reason Intel has tightened things regarding leaks and stuff.

Drivers aren't ready?

 

[511]

Drivers aren't ready?

CPU doesn't so many Drivers and software xDd especially considering it's LNC on 18A

 

[ToTTenTranz]

CPU doesn't so many Drivers and software xDd especially considering it's LNC on 18A

Were people really expecting Cougar Cove's performance and efficiency to be better than Lion Cove's? It looks like a small evolutionary step at best.




Same performance as Arrow Lake, same power efficiency as Lunar Lake. That's really all there is to it.


Intel isn't bringing any significant CPU performance boost before Nova Lake.

 

[511]

Were people really expecting Cougar Cove's performance and efficiency to be better than Lion Cove's? It looks like a small evolutionary step at best.

Efficiency Yes performance maybe maybe not

Intel isn't bringing any significant CPU performance boost before Nova Lake.

What would you think of ARL-H(45W) performance at 25W and similar battery life to LNL with much better GPU And Uncore than ARL not to mention new Display and Media IP

 

[igor_kavinski]

It's almost a boring generation. No one is interested in leaking it.

People are almost embarrassed and ashamed to leak it. They are like, I don't want my name (even just online one) attached to THAT!

 

[ToTTenTranz]

It's almost a boring generation. No one is interested in leaking it.

People are almost embarrassed and ashamed to leak it. They are like, I don't want my name (even just online one) attached to THAT!

I'm looking forward to see if MSI will launch a Claw handheld with Panther Lake. Unlike anything else we have right now, it should bring a significant gaming performance upgrade from my current Legion Go.
Unless one of the big players launches a STX Halo option, that is.

 

[igor_kavinski]

I'm looking forward to see if MSI will launch a Claw handheld with Panther Lake.

I think they will. Won't be able to resist.

 

[Josh128]

Were people really expecting Cougar Cove's performance and efficiency to be better than Lion Cove's? It looks like a small evolutionary step at best.

View attachment 130061


Same performance as Arrow Lake, same power efficiency as Lunar Lake. That's really all there is to it.


Intel isn't bringing any significant CPU performance boost before Nova Lake.

Absolutely, as 18A was supposed to be the absolute best process available. Now people are saying its ~N3. I dont buy that.