Discussion Intel Meteor, Arrow, Lunar & Panther Lakes + WCL Discussion Threads

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Tigerick

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Apr 1, 2022
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Wildcat Lake (WCL) Preliminary Specs

Intel Wildcat Lake (WCL) is upcoming mobile SoC replacing ADL-N. WCL consists of 2 tiles: compute tile and PCD tile. It is true single die consists of CPU, GPU and NPU that is fabbed by 18-A process. Last time I checked, PCD tile is fabbed by TSMC N6 process. They are connected through UCIe, not D2D; a first from Intel. Expecting launching in Q2/Computex 2026. In case people don't remember AlderLake-N, I have created a table below to compare the detail specs of ADL-N and WCL. Just for fun, I am throwing LNL and upcoming Mediatek D9500 SoC.

Intel Alder Lake - NIntel Wildcat LakeIntel Lunar LakeMediatek D9500
Launch DateQ1-2023Q2-2026 ?Q3-2024Q3-2025
ModelIntel N300?Core Ultra 7 268VDimensity 9500 5G
Dies2221
NodeIntel 7 + ?Intel 18-A + TSMC N6TSMC N3B + N6TSMC N3P
CPU8 E-cores2 P-core + 4 LP E-cores4 P-core + 4 LP E-coresC1 1+3+4
Threads8688
Max Clock3.8 GHz?5 GHz
L3 Cache6 MB?12 MB
TDP7 WFanless ?17 WFanless
Memory64-bit LPDDR5-480064-bit LPDDR5-6800 ?128-bit LPDDR5X-853364-bit LPDDR5X-10667
Size16 GB?32 GB24 GB ?
Bandwidth~ 55 GB/s136 GB/s85.6 GB/s
GPUUHD GraphicsArc 140VG1 Ultra
EU / Xe32 EU2 Xe8 Xe12
Max Clock1.25 GHz2 GHz
NPUNA18 TOPS48 TOPS100 TOPS ?






PPT1.jpg
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As Hot Chips 34 starting this week, Intel will unveil technical information of upcoming Meteor Lake (MTL) and Arrow Lake (ARL), new generation platform after Raptor Lake. Both MTL and ARL represent new direction which Intel will move to multiple chiplets and combine as one SoC platform.

MTL also represents new compute tile that based on Intel 4 process which is based on EUV lithography, a first from Intel. Intel expects to ship MTL mobile SoC in 2023.

ARL will come after MTL so Intel should be shipping it in 2024, that is what Intel roadmap is telling us. ARL compute tile will be manufactured by Intel 20A process, a first from Intel to use GAA transistors called RibbonFET.



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igor_kavinski

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dullard said:
That would lead the whole internet into an uproar that they were "promised" one thing and got another.
Click to expand...
Just label them as "preliminary" slides.

They can begin such slides with statements like "We are working hard and can't wait to share the final silicon with you but here's what we have so far and hoping to make it even better!".

dullard said:
They have released quite a few slides.
Click to expand...
Any URLs?

I found this speculative thingy:
https://www.reddit.com/r/intelstock/comments/1mak36j/intel_products_deep_dive_13_panther_lake_stronger
 
D

DavidC1

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Dec 29, 2023
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Josh128 said:
New MLID "Leak" Panther Lake is being nicknamed "Pathetic Lake" by board partners testing it.
Click to expand...
Nothing Processing Unit being bad is not really a big deal. Everything else is troubling considering how close they are to launch.
 
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MoistOintment

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Jul 31, 2024
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igor_kavinski said:
Yeah, they really should release tech slides way ahead of the launch to generate "excitement".

And they can share only the IPC improvement. Final clocks for both CPU core and memory don't need to be mentioned. I don't see what's the big deal about sitting on the tech information so long unless they are afraid to give their competitor time to prepare an effective response. If that's true, Intel being afraid of AMD is something Intel shouldn't even be hinting. It's a bad look for them.
Click to expand...
PTL isn't exciting except for hardware enthusiasts and investors who get to see 18A in action and compare it to N3B considering how little the core design changes.

It'll be minimal improvements over the current product stack. Probably slightly better gaming in the H series due to fixed SoC
 
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DavidC1

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MoistOintment said:
PTL isn't exciting except for hardware enthusiasts and investors who get to see 18A in action and compare it to N3B considering how little the core design changes.
Click to expand...
Actually, if they can keep Lunarlake efficiency on low-moderate load then it'll actually a boon especially if the lower BoM results in some lower cost laptops.

I want to see a true ultraportable that forgets obsolescence focused tech like OLEDs that also reduces battery life. 1080p IPS please! You have manufacturers like NEC in Japan that does this but for the most part LNL's advantages are absolutely killed by 1440p OLED displays. The advantages in battery life for LNL over both AMD and Meteorlake is greater than 30%.
 
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511

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DavidC1 said:
Actually, if they can keep Lunarlake efficiency on low-moderate load then it'll actually a boon especially if the lower BoM results in some lower cost laptops.

I want to see a true ultraportable that forgets obsolescence focused tech like OLEDs that also reduces battery life. 1080p IPS please! You have manufacturers like NEC in Japan that does this but for the most part LNL's advantages are absolutely killed by 1440p OLED displays. The advantages in battery life for LNL over both AMD and Meteorlake is greater than 30%.
Click to expand...
agreed a reason Apple haven't switched to OLED on Mac. Tech tuber will always say Great OLED display but won't say It will kill battery quicker.
 
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DavidC1

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511 said:
agreed a reason Apple haven't switched to OLED on Mac Tech tuber will always say Great OLED display but won't say It will kill battery quicker.
Click to expand...
I'm more bothered about having a finite lifespan. It's like SSDs, but worse. Same with electric cars. SSDs at least last long enough on average use. Electric cars turns your fuel tank be the bottleneck in obsolescence and have trash resale value, and OLEDs will eventually have significant burn in so in average use it'll likely die.
 
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Magio

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DavidC1 said:
I'm more bothered about having a finite lifespan. It's like SSDs, but worse. Same with electric cars. SSDs at least last long enough on average use. Electric cars turns your fuel tank be the bottleneck in obsolescence and have trash resale value, and OLEDs will eventually have significant burn in so in average use it'll likely die.
Click to expand...
And OLED's flaws are way less suited to laptop use than to smartphone use. Way more static pixels for much longer periods (and the "pixel shift" OEM stuff is more gimmicky than anything).

I love how OLED screens look, but I'd prefer if we started getting more MiniLED laptop screens, it gets you to like 95% of OLED contrast and image quality without the drawbacks.
 
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511

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Magio said:
And OLED's flaws are way less suited to laptop use than to smartphone use. Way more static pixels for much longer periods (and the "pixel shift" OEM stuff is more gimmicky than anything).

I love how OLED screens look, but I'd prefer if we started getting more MiniLED laptop screens, it gets you to like 95% of OLED contrast and image quality without the drawbacks.
Click to expand...
Mini LED with Anti reflective coating for me hate glossy display
 
Josh128

Josh128

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OLED burn in is overstated. I still have 4 2013 & 2014 model Samsung plasmas in my house, most of them get daily use, and they all still have stunning pictures. The advantages of OLED over LCD are 100% worth it over any disadvantages.
 
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511

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But on Large Screen they are a power hog and if some website is not using darkmode with full brightens it consumes mor epower than SoC xDd depending on the scenario.
 
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DavidC1

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Josh128 said:
OLED burn in is overstated. I still have 4 2013 & 2014 model Samsung plasmas in my house, most of them get daily use, and they all still have stunning pictures. The advantages of OLED over LCD are 100% worth it over any disadvantages.
Click to expand...
Yea... no. I still have the NEC monitor that I bought it used off Craigslist and used it for few years after that. It came out in 2006. It should last if you need it too. Also, Plasma is not OLED.

I hate the whole move to stream-everything, subscription-based, replace every 1 year or 2, proprietary, difficult to repair mentality. Look at videos by Louis Rossman and see how greedy and borderline evil those companies are in a quest to extract every cent from you and just because they can. The trend has been in household appliances like refrigerators, dishwashers for years now. Difficult to repair, expensive, garbage that doesn't even last 10 years. The whole quest is basically to extract every bit of control away from you in the worst kind of dystopian sci-fi all combined together.

It's one thing in the electronics that can be often replaced by 10 cent capacitor or something to fail. It's another when the screen itself is the issue. They should go ALL open source and upgradeable like Framework. Once the company is successful enough, sell all the proprietary parts at a *reasonable* price, give freely all schematics.
 
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Josh128

Josh128

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DavidC1 said:
Yea... no. I still have the NEC monitor that I bought it used off Craigslist and used it for few years after that. It came out in 2006. It should last if you need it too. Also, Plasma is not OLED.

I hate the whole move to stream-everything, subscription-based, replace every 1 year or 2, proprietary, difficult to repair mentality. Look at videos by Louis Rossman and see how greedy and borderline evil those companies are in a quest to extract every cent from you and just because they can. The trend has been in household appliances like refrigerators, dishwashers for years now. Difficult to repair, expensive, garbage that doesn't even last 10 years. The whole quest is basically to extract every bit of control away from you in the worst kind of dystopian sci-fi all combined together.

It's one thing in the electronics that can be often replaced by 10 cent capacitor or something to fail. It's another when the screen itself is the issue. They should go ALL open source and upgradeable like Framework. Once the company is successful enough, sell all the proprietary parts at a *reasonable* price, give freely all schematics.
Click to expand...
I still have working Sanyo CRT TVs that I purchased in 1996 and multiple large Trinitrons manufactured from 2003-2005. All still beautiful, all still working. They are also susceptible to burn in. LCD is not some unicorn that never fails. All can fail. My dads 4K Vizio died at only around 6 years old. Screen failure, started with stuck colored pixel rows and progressed to failure.

LCD liquid goo displays suck for contrast and motion. Emissive display tech is superior. Theres nothing to debate. Ive repaired 3 of the plasmas in my home, also a 65" LCD whose backlight LEDs turned blue. None of the screens are repairable on any display type, all are replaceable though.
 
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dullard

dullard

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igor_kavinski said:
Just label them as "preliminary" slides.

They can begin such slides with statements like "We are working hard and can't wait to share the final silicon with you but here's what we have so far and hoping to make it even better!".

Any URLs?
Click to expand...
You'll be disappointed. The tech details so far are on 18A, which Panther Lake uses, but not specific details for Panther Lake.

Here is a subset of Intel slides on Panther Lake that I quickly googled (nothing new that hasn't been posted in this thread already):
https://forums.anandtech.com/attachments/ppt1-jpg.97009/
https://www.techpowerup.com/329790/...powering-on-with-es0-silicon-revision#g329790
https://wccftech.com/intel-next-gen...r-acer-swift-16-ai-laptop-16-3k-oled-display/
https://www.guru3d.com/story/intel-18a-process-node-yields-fall-short-for-panther-lake/
https://wccftech.com/intel-panther-lake-with-12-cores-spotted-at-intels-gfx-ci-portal/
https://cdn.mos.cms.futurecdn.net/X24ZUdq6VbiVCowpZoy2y5-970-80.png.webp

The real details are Intel slides on 18A, here is a subset of them:
https://videocardz.com/newz/intel-panther-lake-has-powered-on-and-its-on-track-for-2025-production
https://newsroom.intel.com/intel-foundry/intel-18a-process-technology-simply-explained
https://images.hothardware.com/contentimages/newsitem/67886/content/intel-18a-ppa.png
https://cdn.mos.cms.futurecdn.net/DK9UXwprAWu5vqNntuqSVo.png
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Gpt7ypdaYAQQtCI?format=jpg&name=large
 
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