Discussion Intel Meteor, Arrow, Lunar & Panther Lakes + WCL Discussion Threads

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Tigerick

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Wildcat Lake (WCL) Preliminary Specs

Intel Wildcat Lake (WCL) is upcoming mobile SoC replacing ADL-N. WCL consists of 2 tiles: compute tile and PCD tile. It is true single die consists of CPU, GPU and NPU that is fabbed by 18-A process. Last time I checked, PCD tile is fabbed by TSMC N6 process. They are connected through UCIe, not D2D; a first from Intel. Expecting launching in Q2/Computex 2026. In case people don't remember AlderLake-N, I have created a table below to compare the detail specs of ADL-N and WCL. Just for fun, I am throwing LNL and upcoming Mediatek D9500 SoC.

Intel Alder Lake - NIntel Wildcat LakeIntel Lunar LakeMediatek D9500
Launch DateQ1-2023Q2-2026 ?Q3-2024Q3-2025
ModelIntel N300?Core Ultra 7 268VDimensity 9500 5G
Dies2221
NodeIntel 7 + ?Intel 18-A + TSMC N6TSMC N3B + N6TSMC N3P
CPU8 E-cores2 P-core + 4 LP E-cores4 P-core + 4 LP E-coresC1 1+3+4
Threads8688
Max Clock3.8 GHz?5 GHz
L3 Cache6 MB?12 MB
TDP7 WFanless ?17 WFanless
Memory64-bit LPDDR5-480064-bit LPDDR5-6800 ?128-bit LPDDR5X-853364-bit LPDDR5X-10667
Size16 GB?32 GB24 GB ?
Bandwidth~ 55 GB/s136 GB/s85.6 GB/s
GPUUHD GraphicsArc 140VG1 Ultra
EU / Xe32 EU2 Xe8 Xe12
Max Clock1.25 GHz2 GHz
NPUNA18 TOPS48 TOPS100 TOPS ?






PPT1.jpg
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As Hot Chips 34 starting this week, Intel will unveil technical information of upcoming Meteor Lake (MTL) and Arrow Lake (ARL), new generation platform after Raptor Lake. Both MTL and ARL represent new direction which Intel will move to multiple chiplets and combine as one SoC platform.

MTL also represents new compute tile that based on Intel 4 process which is based on EUV lithography, a first from Intel. Intel expects to ship MTL mobile SoC in 2023.

ARL will come after MTL so Intel should be shipping it in 2024, that is what Intel roadmap is telling us. ARL compute tile will be manufactured by Intel 20A process, a first from Intel to use GAA transistors called RibbonFET.



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DavidC1

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LightningZ71 said:
Strix Point's iGPU begs to differ about being memory bandwidth limited. Despite being twice as large as Kraken's iGPU, it is FAR from being twice as fast.
Click to expand...
I stand corrected.

However, except for the eDRAM-less Iris parts way back ago, Intel iGPUs were never limited as AMD GPUs were, unless you are putting single channel memory. Plus, Pantherlake is a new architecture and if @511 is right, it shares the LLC with the CPU. 50% extra is not a huge issue in any terms. PTL also supports faster memory too, no?

@511 Who said Panther Cove has clustered decode?
 
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DrMrLordX

DrMrLordX

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jpiniero said:
More like Ayyy Eyeeee
Click to expand...
That's exactly what kept Strix Halo alive. Kinda makes me wonder if or when we'll see some kind of Intel miniPCs sold with 64GB and 128GB configs. Would be an interesting dumping ground for some Nova Lake variant. Maybe.
 
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511

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DavidC1 said:
@511 Who said Panther Cove has clustered decode?
Click to expand...

Trust Me Bro /jk
Sources and if you look at it they are sharing L2 Cache similar to E core team and cluster decoding cause 8 Wide Core like LNC is too Area heavy and 10 Wide would be nuts so Cluster Decoding like E cores
 
coercitiv

coercitiv

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So are we getting a token/paper launch for Panther Lake at the end of the year? I know availability is set for 2026, but I would expect Intel to pretend their assurances about Panther Lake being a 2025 product were real.

I just want the tech talk, they can launch it whenever :p
 
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511

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coercitiv said:
So are we getting a token/paper launch for Panther Lake at the end of the year? I know availability is set for 2026, but I would expect Intel to pretend their assurances about Panther Lake being a 2025 product were real.

I just want the tech talk, they can launch it whenever :p
Click to expand...
Same I wanna see the iGPU Arch and the PnP comparison of Cougar Cove vs LNC and Skymont vs Darkmont.
 
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igor_kavinski

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Yeah, they really should release tech slides way ahead of the launch to generate "excitement".

And they can share only the IPC improvement. Final clocks for both CPU core and memory don't need to be mentioned. I don't see what's the big deal about sitting on the tech information so long unless they are afraid to give their competitor time to prepare an effective response. If that's true, Intel being afraid of AMD is something Intel shouldn't even be hinting. It's a bad look for them.
 
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RTX2080

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coercitiv said:
So are we getting a token/paper launch for Panther Lake at the end of the year? I know availability is set for 2026, but I would expect Intel to pretend their assurances about Panther Lake being a 2025 product were real.

I just want the tech talk, they can launch it whenever :p
Click to expand...

According to leaker Golden Pig Upgrade, Pantherlake early enablement program(EEP) is postponed to 2026 and very likely the availability for consumers would be 1Q later. So possible paper launch might be during CES.
 
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igor_kavinski

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@511

I just had a genius idea on how to use up the available Arrow Lake desktop CPUs that no one wants.

Intel should introduce the briefcase form factor. It looks JUST like a briefcase. Inside there is a mini-ITX mobo and desktop CPU and a removable battery pack plus a removable display giving users the flexibility to replace the bog standard display with miniLED or OLED or AMOLED if they like. Plus, small compartments for SATA SSDs and NVMe SSDs that you simply plug in vertically. The keyboard and touchpad should also be replaceable for people who want something more expensive. A thin and sturdy tray should come out from the right or left side that can support a mouse pad.

Here's the really genius part. The bottom of the briefcase has the CPU and mobo but the back side of the display has the GPU. Thus it is thermally isolated from the CPU and it will be able to consume up to 250W if needed and that heat will be transferred away from the user.

Without AC power, the CPU will run at 1 GHz or lower and the GPU can also be similarly either downclocked or only the iGPU is available in battery mode. Plug in a power cable and suddenly the whole machine comes alive!

How's that???? File a patent now and name me as your partner. Let's become billionaires! :p
 
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DavidC1

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511 said:
Trust Me Bro /jk
Sources and if you look at it they are sharing L2 Cache similar to E core team and cluster decoding cause 8 Wide Core like LNC is too Area heavy and 10 Wide would be nuts so Cluster Decoding like E cores
Click to expand...
Fatter decoders exist even though significant amount of code can't really do high ILP because it helps during peaks when it can actually reach that high. And it requires a major redesign which is not too realistic in 2027 for something that'll be replaced soon.
 
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DavidC1

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igor_kavinski said:
Yeah, they really should release tech slides way ahead of the launch to generate "excitement".

And they can share only the IPC improvement. Final clocks for both CPU core and memory don't need to be mentioned. I don't see what's the big deal about sitting on the tech information so long unless they are afraid to give their competitor time to prepare an effective response. If that's true, Intel being afraid of AMD is something Intel shouldn't even be hinting. It's a bad look for them.
Click to expand...
0% for P and 3-4% for E?

I'm interested in whether they did improve efficiency for the E cores like that Intel reddit guy claims and what the Celestial architecture brings.
 
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511

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Josh128 said:
New MLID "Leak" Panther Lake is being nicknamed "Pathetic Lake" by board partners testing it.

Click to expand...
It's MLID he has vendetta against Intel I don't believe anything he says. Only take his core count leak seriously nothing else.

MLID:
If he hypes a Intel product it's bad or is getting cancelled.(Royal Cove/Arrow Lake)
If he doesn't or says negative thing regarding it it's gonna be fine.
 
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Josh128

Josh128

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igor_kavinski said:
Yeah, they really should release tech slides way ahead of the launch to generate "excitement".

And they can share only the IPC improvement. Final clocks for both CPU core and memory don't need to be mentioned. I don't see what's the big deal about sitting on the tech information so long unless they are afraid to give their competitor time to prepare an effective response. If that's true, Intel being afraid of AMD is something Intel shouldn't even be hinting. It's a bad look for them.
Click to expand...
The Osborne effect.
 
dullard

dullard

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May 21, 2001
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igor_kavinski said:
Yeah, they really should release tech slides way ahead of the launch to generate "excitement".

And they can share only the IPC improvement. Final clocks for both CPU core and memory don't need to be mentioned. I don't see what's the big deal about sitting on the tech information so long unless they are afraid to give their competitor time to prepare an effective response. If that's true, Intel being afraid of AMD is something Intel shouldn't even be hinting. It's a bad look for them.
Click to expand...
They have released quite a few slides.

The issue with sharing an IPC improvement is that it is subject to change. As BIOSes are developed, microcode is written, errata are addressed, temperatures are optimized, stability is improved, etc, the final IPC changes slightly. The change is not mind-blowing. Usually it is a percent or two here or there. Sometimes worse, sometimes better. But if one chip is close in performance to another chip, then these last minute tweaks can certainly move one chip from a slight lead to a slight loss. That would lead the whole internet into an uproar that they were "promised" one thing and got another.
 
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