Discussion Intel Meteor, Arrow, Lunar & Panther Lakes + WCL Discussion Threads

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Tigerick

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Apr 1, 2022
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Wildcat Lake (WCL) Preliminary Specs

Intel Wildcat Lake (WCL) is upcoming mobile SoC replacing ADL-N. WCL consists of 2 tiles: compute tile and PCD tile. It is true single die consists of CPU, GPU and NPU that is fabbed by 18-A process. Last time I checked, PCD tile is fabbed by TSMC N6 process. They are connected through UCIe, not D2D; a first from Intel. Expecting launching in Q2/Computex 2026. In case people don't remember AlderLake-N, I have created a table below to compare the detail specs of ADL-N and WCL. Just for fun, I am throwing LNL and upcoming Mediatek D9500 SoC.

Intel Alder Lake - NIntel Wildcat LakeIntel Lunar LakeMediatek D9500
Launch DateQ1-2023Q2-2026 ?Q3-2024Q3-2025
ModelIntel N300?Core Ultra 7 268VDimensity 9500 5G
Dies2221
NodeIntel 7 + ?Intel 18-A + TSMC N6TSMC N3B + N6TSMC N3P
CPU8 E-cores2 P-core + 4 LP E-cores4 P-core + 4 LP E-coresC1 1+3+4
Threads8688
Max Clock3.8 GHz?5 GHz
L3 Cache6 MB?12 MB
TDP7 WFanless ?17 WFanless
Memory64-bit LPDDR5-480064-bit LPDDR5-6800 ?128-bit LPDDR5X-853364-bit LPDDR5X-10667
Size16 GB?32 GB24 GB ?
Bandwidth~ 55 GB/s136 GB/s85.6 GB/s
GPUUHD GraphicsArc 140VG1 Ultra
EU / Xe32 EU2 Xe8 Xe12
Max Clock1.25 GHz2 GHz
NPUNA18 TOPS48 TOPS100 TOPS ?






PPT1.jpg
PPT2.jpg
PPT3.jpg



As Hot Chips 34 starting this week, Intel will unveil technical information of upcoming Meteor Lake (MTL) and Arrow Lake (ARL), new generation platform after Raptor Lake. Both MTL and ARL represent new direction which Intel will move to multiple chiplets and combine as one SoC platform.

MTL also represents new compute tile that based on Intel 4 process which is based on EUV lithography, a first from Intel. Intel expects to ship MTL mobile SoC in 2023.

ARL will come after MTL so Intel should be shipping it in 2024, that is what Intel roadmap is telling us. ARL compute tile will be manufactured by Intel 20A process, a first from Intel to use GAA transistors called RibbonFET.



LNL-MX.png
 

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Hitman928

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511 said:
This roadmap is plain wrong MTL Launched Q4 23. ARL Launched Q4 24. LNL was Q3 2024 so how can we expect everything else to be right.
Click to expand...
Could be OEM roadmap which would mean a delay from CPU launch to actual model availability.
 
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511

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Hitman928 said:
Could be OEM roadmap which would mean a delay from CPU launch to actual model availability.
Click to expand...
It would be the lowest Tier OEM tbh if it has to be but I wouldn't put a stock in a roadmap that has past data wrong.
 
dullard

dullard

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May 21, 2001
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Hitman928 said:
Which OEMs had available models at MTL launch?
Click to expand...
1) OEMs don't generally have laptops available at launch. It takes time for them to receive the chips and design thermal systems around them and their particular hot spot locations. Cooling on a thin device takes custom work.

2) OEMS do generally have desktops available at launch. The desktop chips tend to be plug and play, working at least somewhat decently with cooling systems already available.

Guess which category Nova Lake is.
 
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Hitman928

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dullard said:
1) OEMs don't generally have laptops available at launch. It takes time for them to receive the chips and design thermal systems around them and their particular hot spot locations. Cooling on a thin device takes custom work.

2) OEMS do generally have desktops available at launch. The desktop chips tend to be plug and play, working at least somewhat decently with cooling systems already available.

Guess which category Nova Lake is.
Click to expand...

So you’re saying that if it is an OEM roadmap, that the timing of the already launched products shown on the road map would make sense. . .
 
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511

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dullard said:
1) OEMs don't generally have laptops available at launch. It takes time for them to receive the chips and design thermal systems around them and their particular hot spot locations. Cooling on a thin device takes custom work.
Click to expand...
they have 1-2 models to buy at launch the real volumes come after the product is fully ramped up
dullard said:
Guess which category Nova Lake is.
Click to expand...
NVL covers everything Desktop/Mobile
 
N

naukkis

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Jun 5, 2002
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DavidC1 said:
Clearwater Forest clocks slightly higher

59TFlops for 576 cores.

With 64-bit compute, each core can compute 8x Flops per GHz. Let's assume 3GHz.
4x128-bit units x 128/64-bit x 3GHz x 576 cores = 13.8TF

So for the math to make sense, they are using FP16 for "AI". At 3GHz that equals to 55.3TFlops. To reach 59TFlops, it needs to be 3.2GHz, which is 200MHz higher than the peak frequency of Xeon 6780E Sierra Forest. There's potential to reach 3300 in 2P SpecIntRate, which is 2.3x SRF.
Click to expand...

Skymont can do 4 128 bit FMAs per cycle. So you need to double your calculated flops - so maybe it achieve those 59Tflops with fp32 instead of fp16.
 
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dullard

dullard

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Hitman928 said:
So you’re saying that if it is an OEM roadmap, that the timing of the already launched products shown on the road map would make sense. . .
Click to expand...
Having every just about every launch be in Q2 of every year regardless of CPU launch date should give you some clues about the roadmap. Also that should give you clues that it has nothing to do with CPU launch dates.
 
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Hitman928

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dullard said:
Having every just about every launch be in Q2 of every year regardless of CPU launch date should give you some clues about the roadmap. Also that should give you clues that it has nothing to do with CPU launch dates.
Click to expand...

So again, if it’s an OEM roadmap, it would make sense as they do annual refreshes, typically releasing in Q2 timeframe. . .
 
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ashFTW

ashFTW

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Sep 21, 2020
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511 said:
They are only replacing the Compute tiles from Darkmont to Arctic Wolf also the IO tile will be on Intel 4/3 for DMR/RRF.

Clearwater -> IO Die I7(Reused with GNR/SRF) ,Base Die 3T,Compute 18A.
DMR -> IO Die I3/4, Base 3T, Compute(Reuse from Clearwater ?) -18AP
RRF -> IO Die I3/4, Base 3T(Reuse From Clearwater?), Compute - 18AP
Click to expand...
No way DMR uses Clearwate Compute tile. All Rapids are P-core, and Forests are E-core
 
ashFTW

ashFTW

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Sep 21, 2020
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511 said:
I made a typo it should be the base die that is shared
Click to expand...
I’m thinking DMR could use similar tile architecture as CWF. If it’s being upgraded to DDR6, then the base tiles will update. There could also be fabric/LLC upgrades. The compute tiles will likely be bigger, with a more mature 18A, perhaps one per base tile instead of 4 as in CWF. Is PCIe 6 possible? Then IO tiles will change as well.
Come to think of it, since it’s a new platform and will be around for 2-3 years, all tiles will be newly designed but borrowing heavily from the previous generations.
 
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fastandfurious6

fastandfurious6

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I'm reading on the net

"next-gen Darkmont @ Intel A18 will be very similar to Skymont except node and will have perf less or equal to zen5 compact"

Again the same pattern:

- every new Intel node keeps failing on making high-end cores
- focuses only on mid-end efficiency/mobile cores
- P cores = pumping extreme power to reach parity with AMD
 
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511

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fastandfurious6 said:
"next-gen Darkmont @ Intel A18 will be very similar to Skymont except node and will have perf less or equal to zen5 compact"
Click to expand...
it will be less than Zen 5 in AVX-512 or SIMD Heavy Workloads for sure
fastandfurious6 said:
every new Intel node keeps failing on making high-end cores
- focuses only on mid-end efficiency/mobile cores
- P cores = pumping extreme power to reach parity with AMD
Click to expand...
Keep dreaming Fitting 288C in 500W is no small feat AMD Could only do 192C on N3E
 
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