Discussion Intel Meteor, Arrow, Lunar & Panther Lakes + WCL Discussion Threads

[Tigerick]

Wildcat Lake (WCL) Preliminary Specs

Intel Wildcat Lake (WCL) is upcoming mobile SoC replacing ADL-N. WCL consists of 2 tiles: compute tile and PCD tile. It is true single die consists of CPU, GPU and NPU that is fabbed by 18-A process. Last time I checked, PCD tile is fabbed by TSMC N6 process. They are connected through UCIe, not D2D; a first from Intel. Expecting launching in Q2/Computex 2026. In case people don't remember AlderLake-N, I have created a table below to compare the detail specs of ADL-N and WCL. Just for fun, I am throwing LNL and upcoming Mediatek D9500 SoC.

		Intel Alder Lake - N	Intel Wildcat Lake	Intel Lunar Lake		Mediatek D9500
Launch Date		Q1-2023	Q2-2026 ?	Q3-2024		Q3-2025
Model		Intel N300	?	Core Ultra 7 268V		Dimensity 9500 5G
Dies		2	2	2		1
Node		Intel 7 + ?	Intel 18-A + TSMC N6	TSMC N3B + N6		TSMC N3P
CPU		8 E-cores	2 P-core + 4 LP E-cores	4 P-core + 4 LP E-cores		C1 1+3+4
Threads		8	6	8		8
Max Clock		3.8 GHz	?	5 GHz
L3 Cache		6 MB	?	12 MB
TDP		7 W	Fanless ?	17 W		Fanless
Memory		64-bit LPDDR5-4800	64-bit LPDDR5-6800 ?	128-bit LPDDR5X-8533		64-bit LPDDR5X-10667
Size		16 GB	?	32 GB		24 GB ?
Bandwidth			~ 55 GB/s	136 GB/s		85.6 GB/s
GPU		UHD Graphics		Arc 140V		G1 Ultra
EU / Xe		32 EU	2 Xe	8 Xe		12
Max Clock		1.25 GHz		2 GHz
NPU		NA	18 TOPS	48 TOPS		100 TOPS ?

As Hot Chips 34 starting this week, Intel will unveil technical information of upcoming Meteor Lake (MTL) and Arrow Lake (ARL), new generation platform after Raptor Lake. Both MTL and ARL represent new direction which Intel will move to multiple chiplets and combine as one SoC platform.

MTL also represents new compute tile that based on Intel 4 process which is based on EUV lithography, a first from Intel. Intel expects to ship MTL mobile SoC in 2023.

ARL will come after MTL so Intel should be shipping it in 2024, that is what Intel roadmap is telling us. ARL compute tile will be manufactured by Intel 20A process, a first from Intel to use GAA transistors called RibbonFET.

 

[SiliconFly]

.

 

[9949asd]

Didnt know 43% is almost double.

BTW, measured at wall: 14" LNL; 16" Strix

Oh? 28w VS 51w, can I call it almost double?

 

[Joe NYC]

I understand, and don't argue. But why is it so important is my question ? In todays world you have 110/220 everywhere, in the car in an airplane, everywhere that a businessman would need it.

You are forgetting the use case where the user is climbing Mount Kilimanjaro, has perfect WIFI reception and while fighting off mosquitos, decides to binge watch not one season (8 hours), not two seasons (16 hours) but full three seasons (24 hours) of a Netflix show.

Also, the screen is set so dim you can't see anything when the sun comes out over the Kilimanjaro, so one of the 3 seasons is audio only.

That's how the notebook bros buy laptops. But in reality, the notebook bros never spend more than 1 hour of their day away from the power outlet.

 

[Joe NYC]

Because it's generally just a qualify of life improvement. Let's say I hop on the train to a different city for a business trip (Acela between NYC and DC is common for me) and I'm working on the train.

Acela has power outlets

And then I get there, and take the laptop into their office and work.

Is your client a hot dog stand with no power outlet?

And then I'm back in the hotel room on the laptop.

Is that in one hotel in the entire United States of America that does not have a power outlet? Which one is it?

And then the next day I'm at their office for a little working, and then back on the train home.

And at no point in that trip would I need to charge.

Like I said in another post, you were never more than 1 hour without access to power outlet...

 

[511]

More like 50%. Intel claim of 1.5 performance per watt improvement is falling a bit short. It’s actually about 60%. It’s a massive generational jump.

They are not lying at least lol it ranges from 60-100% ppw easily

 

[TESKATLIPOKA]

Cinebench is not indicative of real usage but it is indicative of throughput in MT,

I know that Cinebench is indicative of thoughtput in nT, that's why I use It every time.

if it s weak in CB it wil lbe weak as well in 7 Zip and whatever use 8 cores, reviews are done with clean OS that are not crippled by hundreds of low priority threads, that s the avantage of a lot of cores and SMT, all the background tasks impacts on responsiveness are neutered.

It can't be weak in anything using 8 cores, because It has 8 cores, It's only missing SMT.
It will be weaker in those apps which use more than 8 cores(threads), but how many people wanting to buy an ultraportable really use that many thread?
And we are going back to my original question, which you continuously refuse to answer.

I know Win11 is sh*t, but LNL will not be crippled by hundreds of low priority threads as you want us to believe.
How do I know that? I just checked Process Lasso, which is showing <=10% usage of my 7840HS, while I type this reply and listen to music.
BTW, I have 6-10 threads parked, so I am pretty certain LNL will not be crippled.

 

[TESKATLIPOKA]

No?

Yes?

 

[Joe NYC]

View attachment 108311

No more free hall pass for Turin. Looks like it’s gonna be a tough fight after all.

Anyon else found it peculiar that all of the Granite Rapids "reviews" seem to be
- sponsored
- using ridiculous 2P configuration, where any normal use case for 128 core CPU in single socket
- using non-standard MRDIMM memory that is not available for sale anywhere

 

[gdansk]

Anyon else found it peculiar that all of the Granite Rapids "reviews" seem to be
- sponsored
- using ridiculous 2P configuration, where any normal use case for 128 core CPU in single socket
- using non-standard MRDIMM memory that is not available for sale anywhere

As I understand these are previews so there were strings attached for access.

 

[Joe NYC]

As I understand these are previews so there were strings attached for access.

Yes, that is what my impression is as well.

Maybe not as bad as the "previews" of Sapphire Rapids, where the only thing the "previewers" were allowed to test was performance using the accelerators.

One thing is clear, that Granite Rapids is going to significantly narrow the gap vs. AMD (compared to Sapphire Rapids and Emerald Rapids), but we will have to wait for some real world testing, with no strings attached.

 

[gdansk]

with no strings attached

I don't think AMD is going to hand out early access to Turin without requirements either. It's a lame game but they're both playing it.

 

[MoistOintment]

Acela has power outlets

Because it's generally just a qualify of life improvement

Perhaps if you're used to carrying around a laptop charger with you everywhere you go and then plugging it in on a train, plane, cafe, in every board room or random cubicle you sit in, or into the server rack itself when you're in the DC, you may not know just how much more pleasant of an experience it is not have to do that or worry about it or even carry a charger with you at all.

I do opt for a thin and light after all, and not a desktop replacement. Carrying a charger that weighs half as much as the laptop itself and having to plug in every time I move locations is really just not as convenient as ignoring that step all together - a convenience that is actually in high market demand despite what people in tech forum bubbles think.

 

[TESKATLIPOKA]

usage it s no better than a 7540U wich is found in sub 700€ laptops, albeit with a much lower grade equipement.

7540U is not a sub 700€ laptop but sub 800€ at cheapest and It's used even in 1500€ business laptops.
And once more LNL is more powerful than 7540U at the same thread count.

 

[TESKATLIPOKA]

Do you understand what is ultra thin notebook?

Of course he understands. It's used for 24/7 rendering and such.

 

[Joe NYC]

I don't think AMD is going to hand out early access to Turin without requirements either. It's a lame game but they're both playing it.

Only 2 weeks left before Turin announcement. We will see if AMD sends out some CPUs for people (Like Patrick Kennedy of ServeTheHome) to just plug into one of their Genoa based servers in their labs...

I think Phoronix typically just gets access to one of the servers in the cloud, to test...

 

[TESKATLIPOKA]

LNL is very good for light gaming. And another very important point is, Hyper-Threading is completely useless when it comes to gaming.

This is not true. With 4C8T CPU SMT(HT) actually helped performance, but of course If you have 8C/16 cores and the game can use only 8 threads then SMT(HT) is completely useless the same way as owning a 16C/32T CPU is useless in that case.

 

[luro]

Turing is not gonna get that much of an performance uplift this gen. It's Zen 5% after all. GNR is not under any major threat anymore.

This going to age like milk

 

[jpiniero]

GNRs must not be much expensive than SPR based on RCP though RCP is totally wrong many times but if this is true why buy Sapphire They are DOA 🤣

RCP is completely fake.

I think the question is how much Intel can produce. Might not get much in the way of discounts if Intel can't produce much.

 

[511]

Anyon else found it peculiar that all of the Granite Rapids "reviews" seem to be
- sponsored
- using ridiculous 2P configuration, where any normal use case for 128 core CPU in single socket
- using non-standard MRDIMM memory that is not available for sale anywhere

2P is not uncommon if it were 4/8 like intel used to have than it would have
STH and hardwareluxx used 6400 MCR is a feature if amd doens't have one none of the were sponsored tbf everything have been sent to phoronix/STH they have sent on EMR launch as well
They are co developed by Intel and Micron by same with optane no one is going to complain if it's non standard if it fits in the same dimm slots lol
when it came out a customer looks at the workload if MCR Suits him better he will buy if not he has standard Ram
Here is 96C 6400Mt/s review

Intels Comeback: Zweimal Xeon 6972P mit 96 Kernen und 12x DDR5-6400 im Test - Hardwareluxx

Intels Comeback: Zweimal Xeon 6972P mit 96 Kernen und 12x DDR5-6400 im Test.

www.hardwareluxx.de

 

[511]

RCP is completely fake.

I think the question is how much Intel can produce. Might not get much in the way of discounts if Intel can't produce much.

I know that is why i said it is wrong lol but anyway two product with same Fake RCP seems promising for the cost to make these feels like the cost difference to make them vs SPR is not that huge

 

[SiliconFly]

.

 

[TESKATLIPOKA]

Battery life is important still. Otherwise might as well ship laptops with no batteries and people gain power from outlets is what your implying?

He is clearly not implying that and I agree with him. LNL having longer battery life is a good thing, but I also don't think It's that necessary. 8-10 hours of web surfing is sufficient.

What about the cases where power outlets aren’t available? Efficiency is a big win and it allows for cooler longer lasting batteries too.

And how many are there? This reasoning is very similar to what @Abwx does. Both of you use some corner case to claim one product is the best and other a flop.

 

[gdansk]

More like Scotch actually!

This is exactly like when many were making ridiculous claims saying Zen 5 is going to have massive performance ST uplift like 30% and ARL is gonna DOA.

Let me put it this way. Granite Ridge, with a mere 5% gaming performance uplift, no core count increase, and TDP cuts across the board is looking close to ARL. Perhaps needing an X3D; just like the generation before.
Turin will increase cores (+33% and +50%) unlike Granite Ridge and increase TDP unlike Granite Ridge. Moreover Zen 5 offers more than a 5% performance uplift in server workloads and SPECint unlike games.
It's not a comparable situation.

 

[Josh128]

Oh? 28w VS 51w, can I call it almost double?View attachment 108323

No you cant, when the same chip at 33W matches the 28W perf of the 288V and increasing the 33W to 51W only nets you 5 fps. Im sure you could burn the 288V up in Cinebench nt, but the score increase vs power curve will look like the Strix fps vs power curve shown here.

 

[TESKATLIPOKA]

Because it's generally just a qualify of life improvement. Let's say I hop on the train to a different city for a business trip (Acela between NYC and DC is common for me) and I'm working on the train.

And then I get there, and take the laptop into their office and work.

And then I'm back in the hotel room on the laptop.

And then the next day I'm at their office for a little working, and then back on the train home.

And at no point in that trip would I need to charge. *That* is a quality of life improvement. Confident all day battery means a student can take their laptop with them all day and leave the charger back in their dorm/house. It means you go to pick up your laptop that you haven't touched in a week, and it still has basically the same charge (limited data on sleep drain, but some comments from reviewers in the comment section mention it's massively improved).

What about just having enough battery life to finish the work day with over 50% charge instead of having just enough charge that you're ending the day in battery save mode?

If this doesn't appeal to you and you'd rather just sacrifice this battery for more nT, you're absolutely free to do so. It's not for you. But I don't have any use case for that nT on the go.

That fact that another commenter is saying they'd rather LNL/Strix cut iGPU for more cores is *wild* because that literally already exists. Go buy an HX series part.

8 hours of standard use battery is not *confident* all day battery, because you may in fact stress the CPU more than usual or have brightness on the screen higher than normal, and now you fall short of your needed amount of charge.

Please tell me why is It a problem to put a small charger in your bag or connect your laptop to a charger If needed after 8 hours instead of 10?
You can easily stress LNL so It won't last 2 hours, so you will need that charger.
So what are we even talking about?
It really looks like people love to go to extremes, just to make their chosen product the best.

I will say It directly, Strix is a good product, LNL is also a good product. You won't really go wrong with either of them.