Discussion Intel Meteor, Arrow, Lunar & Panther Lakes + WCL Discussion Threads

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Tigerick

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Apr 1, 2022
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Wildcat Lake (WCL) Preliminary Specs

Intel Wildcat Lake (WCL) is upcoming mobile SoC replacing ADL-N. WCL consists of 2 tiles: compute tile and PCD tile. It is true single die consists of CPU, GPU and NPU that is fabbed by 18-A process. Last time I checked, PCD tile is fabbed by TSMC N6 process. They are connected through UCIe, not D2D; a first from Intel. Expecting launching in Q2/Computex 2026. In case people don't remember AlderLake-N, I have created a table below to compare the detail specs of ADL-N and WCL. Just for fun, I am throwing LNL and upcoming Mediatek D9500 SoC.

Intel Alder Lake - NIntel Wildcat LakeIntel Lunar LakeMediatek D9500
Launch DateQ1-2023Q2-2026 ?Q3-2024Q3-2025
ModelIntel N300?Core Ultra 7 268VDimensity 9500 5G
Dies2221
NodeIntel 7 + ?Intel 18-A + TSMC N6TSMC N3B + N6TSMC N3P
CPU8 E-cores2 P-core + 4 LP E-cores4 P-core + 4 LP E-coresC1 1+3+4
Threads8688
Max Clock3.8 GHz?5 GHz
L3 Cache6 MB?12 MB
TDP7 WFanless ?17 WFanless
Memory64-bit LPDDR5-480064-bit LPDDR5-6800 ?128-bit LPDDR5X-853364-bit LPDDR5X-10667
Size16 GB?32 GB24 GB ?
Bandwidth~ 55 GB/s136 GB/s85.6 GB/s
GPUUHD GraphicsArc 140VG1 Ultra
EU / Xe32 EU2 Xe8 Xe12
Max Clock1.25 GHz2 GHz
NPUNA18 TOPS48 TOPS100 TOPS ?






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As Hot Chips 34 starting this week, Intel will unveil technical information of upcoming Meteor Lake (MTL) and Arrow Lake (ARL), new generation platform after Raptor Lake. Both MTL and ARL represent new direction which Intel will move to multiple chiplets and combine as one SoC platform.

MTL also represents new compute tile that based on Intel 4 process which is based on EUV lithography, a first from Intel. Intel expects to ship MTL mobile SoC in 2023.

ARL will come after MTL so Intel should be shipping it in 2024, that is what Intel roadmap is telling us. ARL compute tile will be manufactured by Intel 20A process, a first from Intel to use GAA transistors called RibbonFET.



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Last edited:

Hitman928

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Apr 15, 2012
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It was in response to the "Arrow Lake in December" Rumor

So the date for QS to be sent out was week 34 according to an earlier post, but there was never any manufacturing date given for the QS tested. Could be that the schedule was wrong in the previous post or the sample isn’t quite a QS. If they are launching in October, I would think there are QSs already. They need at least 3 months to start a production run and get product to partners which means the QS samples should have already been made.
 
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desrever

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Nov 6, 2021
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Can't wait for the drama if ARL is a complete wash in performance compared to RPL in single core with all the RPL drama still happening.

Maybe Intel can lower their RPL performance with their new microcode so ARL doesn't look so meh. 🤣
 

KompuKare

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Jul 28, 2009
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Even if this QS is representative of final performance, there are still 2 very big unknowns. First is what memory config was used, this can make a significant difference in some benchmarks. The second is power/efficiency. I know it says that it was set to 250W, but we don't know how much it is actually using in CB (my guess would be 250W but we don't know for sure) and how much it uses in idle/ST scenarios.
Since ARL 253W can pull way more, a 250W "set" power is currently largely meaningless.
Actual used power is the thing I am interested in.

RPL went crazy, so hopefully ARL can dial that back a fair bit - hopefully current events help. My worry would be if ARL does not perform like they want, that Intel cranks power back up. I want an end to 300W+ CPUs especially since the last 100W+ can gain as little as 1%.

Can't wait for the drama if ARL is a complete wash in performance compared to RPL in single core with all the RPL drama still happening.

Maybe Intel can lower their RPL performance with their new microcode so ARL doesn't look so meh. 🤣
A wash in performance at 100W or so less power is not a bad thing though IMO. Won't get upgraders but a return to power sanity would be nice.
 

Det0x

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Sep 11, 2014
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15% in multi with all the hype for the 60% improved IPC of the e cores is even more so
Its also important to remember that +15% MT is vs a 13900k capped at 250w
A 13900k @ 250w only scores like 36-37k in Cinenbench R23

Reviewers have been running those 13900k's and 14900k's @ 350+ watts for them to hit the 40+k numbers we have been seeing the last two years
Reality have finally caught up with Intel it seems
 

KompuKare

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Jul 28, 2009
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I very much agree, and i have been telling the guys in this thread that have been hyping ~ +20% ST vs 14900K that they would be wise to lower their expectations :wink:
We will see close to launch, but there is a danger this hype train is about to deflate faster than the one for the other x86 vendor did.
15% in multi with all the hype for the 60% improved IPC of the e cores is even more so
But nobody needs SMT any more (as it hindering the huge ST gains ARL is about to unleash...) so Skymont to the rescue!

I do suspect that if there is any technical merit in dropping SMT (aside from it technically helping to close various speculative execution attacks), then it won't be there ARL but rather a few gens later. But that would only happen IMO if Intel completely drops SMT for servers too which seems risky.
 

controlflow

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Feb 17, 2015
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15% in multi with all the hype for the 60% improved IPC of the e cores is even more so

The ST looks meh but the MT looks pretty reasonable. The ability to get better than RPL MT throughput with 24 instead of 32 threads is a win. Should lead to potentially better gains in mixed workloads which are more than single threaded but not quite stupidly parallel where they saturate all available threads.

If ARL can do all that with much better power efficiency, that makes it a decent improvement overall. Nothing to really write home about though.
 

inf64

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Mar 11, 2011
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With the kinda amazing gains Skymont provides, an overall measly +18% MT cannot even be considered a decent gain. Something isn't adding up. I'm starting to think something's amiss. Is it really a QS? Or is the QS pushed to max properly? What are we missing? @Jaykihn has been wrong too many times. Is he repeating the same mistakes again? Is he even a real engineer?!?
Better be preprepared to be disappointed than to expect a miracle after we have decent leaks like the last one. It basically confirms what igorslab leaked one year ago, almost to the T.
 
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mikk

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May 15, 2012
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We don't know the clock speeds of this QS or whatever it is, what's the point?
 

dullard

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May 21, 2001
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We don't know the clock speeds of this QS or whatever it is, what's the point?
The point is to bash Intel. Regardless of power used, clock speeds, price, availability (or lack thereof), or anything else.

I'm a broken record, so I'll say it again. Arrow Lake is a massive iGPU increase, adding an NPU, and lower power. Dominantly better desktop performance isn't the point of Arrow Lake.
 
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DavidC1

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Dec 29, 2023
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But nobody needs SMT any more (as it hindering the huge ST gains ARL is about to unleash...) so Skymont to the rescue!
It's BECAUSE Skymont has big gains they are able to get 15% MT gains.

In Raptorlake, 1P = 2E in MT remember? So 14900K is 8+8.

8 x 1.3 SMT + 8 = 18.4
8 x 1.15(LNC) + 8 x 1.5 = 21.2, or 15%
15% in multi with all the hype for the 60% improved IPC of the e cores is even more so
The Int gains will be lot less at 30% over Gracemont and Int is basically uarch.