Discussion Intel Meteor, Arrow, Lunar & Panther Lakes + WCL Discussion Threads

[Tigerick]

Wildcat Lake (WCL) Specs

Intel Wildcat Lake (WCL) is upcoming mobile SoC replacing Raptor Lake-U. WCL consists of 2 tiles: compute tile and PCD tile. It is true single die consists of CPU, GPU and NPU that is fabbed by 18-A process. Last time I checked, PCD tile is fabbed by TSMC N6 process. They are connected through UCIe, not D2D; a first from Intel. Expecting launching in Q1 2026.

		Intel Raptor Lake U	Intel Wildcat Lake 15W?	Intel Lunar Lake		Intel Panther Lake 4+0+4
Launch Date		Q1-2024	Q2-2026	Q3-2024		Q1-2026
Model		Intel 150U	Intel Core 7	Core Ultra 7 268V		Core Ultra 7 365
Dies		2	2	2		3
Node		Intel 7 + ?	Intel 18-A + TSMC N6	TSMC N3B + N6		Intel 18-A + Intel 3 + TSMC N6
CPU		2 P-core + 8 E-cores	2 P-core + 4 LP E-cores	4 P-core + 4 LP E-cores		4 P-core + 4 LP E-cores
Threads		12	6	8		8
Max Clock		5.4 GHz	?	5 GHz		4.8 GHz
L3 Cache		12 MB		12 MB		12 MB
TDP		15 - 55 W	15 W ?	17 - 37 W		25 - 55 W
Memory		128-bit LPDDR5-5200	64-bit LPDDR5	128-bit LPDDR5x-8533		128-bit LPDDR5x-7467
Size		96 GB		32 GB		128 GB
Bandwidth				136 GB/s
GPU		Intel Graphics	Intel Graphics	Arc 140V		Intel Graphics
RT		No	No	YES		YES
EU / Xe		96 EU	2 Xe	8 Xe		4 Xe
Max Clock		1.3 GHz	?	2 GHz		2.5 GHz
NPU		GNA 3.0	18 TOPS	48 TOPS		49 TOPS

As Hot Chips 34 starting this week, Intel will unveil technical information of upcoming Meteor Lake (MTL) and Arrow Lake (ARL), new generation platform after Raptor Lake. Both MTL and ARL represent new direction which Intel will move to multiple chiplets and combine as one SoC platform.

MTL also represents new compute tile that based on Intel 4 process which is based on EUV lithography, a first from Intel. Intel expects to ship MTL mobile SoC in 2023.

ARL will come after MTL so Intel should be shipping it in 2024, that is what Intel roadmap is telling us. ARL compute tile will be manufactured by Intel 20A process, a first from Intel to use GAA transistors called RibbonFET.

 

[naukkis]

LionCove at ArrowLake will be different. Intel itself admitted that logic was removed from the LunarLake variant to save space and power consumption. One such thing is that the L1 and L2 communication bandwidth in ArrowLake will be 128B instead of 64B like in LunarLake.
Intel says the 64B's L1 and L2 communication links provide a smaller footprint, which is key for LunarLake. But ArrowLake doesn't need such compromises, where performance comes first.

128B L1-L2 bandwith is needed to allow full AVX512-bandwidth from L2. With only 64B L1-read bandwidth from AVX2 128B L1-L2 bandwidth only offers minor benefits over 64B. So expect 128B L1-L2 to come with AVX512 support and cpu's without with 64B.

 

[TwistedAndy]

Lion Cover targets to be 50% more IPC over Golden Cove. Yeah here we will have an Apple Killer. The 20A saves LNC to be a Power Hungry beast.

Lion Cove is an 8-wide core; Golden Cove is 6-wide. In the ideal scenario, we can see a 30% larger peak throughput. In real apps, it's reasonable to expect a nearly 10-20% improvement in ISO performance.

You probably took 50% from the comparison of peak performance of the Lion Cove and Skymont cores, assuming that Skymont matches the Golden Cove in terms of IPC

Skymont IPC is not far from Lion Cove IPC, the proper Intel Graphs don't lie about it.

Yes, Skymont is also an 8-wide architecture. In some cases, they may show similar performance. Probably, you're referring to this slide:

 

[static shock]

Years of raptor and golden coves was to prepare LNL and ARL lake. AMD have the right chip to combat both, but is still in the labs. I will go with ARL.

AMD is said in the news to adopt TSMC 2N GAA ASAP for future designs. The big IPC update was that Scary fast update that He-Man said. And the graph marks LNC to be Scary Fast too.

 

[deasd]

About supply:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1798649833894609134

Further report, original article from Digitimes is behind paywall

https://twitter.com/x/status/1803792693967118705

 

[AMDK11]

Exactly, but there is discussion that Lion Cove in Arrow Lake will see significant performance gains over Lion Cove in Lunar Lake. I'm rather skeptical but I'd like to understand why other folks may feel that way.

They could remove the HT logic from the core, so they could also remove the ADD, FMA, ROB, etc. transistors specifically for LunarLake.

So that it doesn't turn out that LionCove in LunarLake is the Light variant

 

[AMDK11]

128B L1-L2 bandwith is needed to allow full AVX512-bandwidth from L2. With only 64B L1-read bandwidth from AVX2 128B L1-L2 bandwidth only offers minor benefits over 64B. So expect 128B L1-L2 to come with AVX512 support and cpu's without with 64B.

I don't deny that you may be right.

 

[poke01]

Further report, original article from Digitimes is behind paywall

https://twitter.com/x/status/1803792693967118705

Total fake news. It’s coming in late September with more availability in October and November.

It’s was always planned late Q3/ early Q4. TSMC started the Lunar production this month.

 

[Ghostsonplanets]

Total fake news. It’s coming in late September with more availability in October and November.

It’s was always planned late Q3/ early Q4. TSMC started the Lunar production this month.

Correct. It was always September. Lunar Lake was pulled ahead of schedule to release before Arrow Lake.

 

[trivik12]

I forget who from Intel it was but in one of the interviews during Computex they guaranteed laptops available for purchase in Q3. So we will know in 3 months if that is true or not.

 

[lightisgood]

Total fake news. It’s coming in late September with more availability in October and November.

It’s was always planned late Q3/ early Q4. TSMC started the Lunar production this month.

Yes.
This news can act as supporting evidence.

TSMC Share Price Target Boosted On Back Of AI Smartphone Surprise, Early Intel Launch

The Taiwan Semiconductor Manufacturing Company (TSMC) is seeing positive attention from Wall Street, as Bernstein increases its share price target to $200.

wccftech.com

 

[Hans Gruber]

Years of raptor and golden coves was to prepare LNL and ARL lake. AMD have the right chip to combat both, but is still in the labs. I will go with ARL.

AMD is said in the news to adopt TSMC 2N GAA ASAP for future designs. The big IPC update was that Scary fast update that He-Man said. And the graph marks LNC to be Scary Fast too.

This Intel series may be very interesting. Arrow Lake 20A followed by Panther Lake 18A on the same motherboard. That's the first time in a long time where it may make sense for Intel builders to get an Arrow Lake followed by Panther Lake. TSMC makes really good silicon but they have been stumbling with 3nm. It definitely opens things up for Intel.

 

[Ghostsonplanets]

This Intel series may be very interesting. Arrow Lake 20A followed by Panther Lake 18A on the same motherboard. That's the first time in a long time where it may make sense for Intel builders to get an Arrow Lake followed by Panther Lake. TSMC makes really good silicon but they have been stumbling with 3nm. It definitely opens things up for Intel.

Panther Lake is Mobile only. And it doesn’t use the same mobile platform as ARL.

So laptop makers will need to make motherboard platform adjustments for PTL.

 

[poke01]

Panther Lake is Mobile only. And it doesn’t use the same mobile platform as ARL.

So laptop makers will need to make motherboard platform adjustments for PTL.

PTL will also come to desktop?

 

[Ghostsonplanets]

PTL will also come to desktop?

Desktop gets Arrow Lake Refresh.

 

[poke01]

Desktop gets Arrow Lake Refresh.

Then 2026 for proper next gen for Desktop

 

[lightisgood]

PTL will also come to desktop?

I guess that PTL could lack PTL-S segments, however, be able to arrive on AIO desktop market.

Intel Achieves Panther Lake "Power On" On Crucial 18A Node, Next-Gen Is All About IPC & Panther Lake Supports Several Segments & More Memory Flexibility

Intel has achieved "Power On" with its next-gen Panther Lake CPUs on 18A node & are coming to several segments with IPC improvements.

wccftech.com

> For the next generation, we will take our time to scale it up because we are going to support several segments.

 

[ondma]

Desktop gets Arrow Lake Refresh.

Then 2026 for proper next gen for Desktop

It is actually worse than that. If ARL-R comes out 1 year after ARL, as is usual for Intel refreshes, that means nearly 2027 before a proper next gen for the desktop. This is why I keep repeating that it is imperative that ARL is better than "just ok". If it isn't, Intel is in trouble for at least 2 more years on the desktop.

 

[lightisgood]

This is why I keep repeating that it is imperative that ARL is better than "just ok".

I'm not so pessimistic.
This leak slide imply that ARL-HX (=ARL-S) refresh must have new SoC tile at least.
In addition, we know that thanks to transition to "Sea of Cells", Intel can refresh compute tile, graphics tile and I/O tile very easily.

I think ARL-R should not be equal to RPL-R.
ARL-R should be like RPL (c.f. ADL).
However, because of tile arch, ARL-R should be more innovative (c.f. RPL vs. ADL).

Intel & AMD Laptop CPU Roadmap Leak: Arrow Lake-HX In 2025, Refresh In 2026 With Panther Lake, Fire Range With 16-Cores & X3D In 2025

Intel & AMD CPU roadmap has leaked out, revealing when we can expect Arrow Lake, Panther Lake, Strix, Krackan and Fire Range chips on laptops.

wccftech.com

 

[H433x0n]

It is actually worse than that. If ARL-R comes out 1 year after ARL, as is usual for Intel refreshes, that means nearly 2027 before a proper next gen for the desktop. This is why I keep repeating that it is imperative that ARL is better than "just ok". If it isn't, Intel is in trouble for at least 2 more years on the desktop.

Intel doesn’t sell CPUs in a vacuum. It has to beat or be at parity with competitors to do well.

 

[ondma]

I'm not so pessimistic.
This leak slide imply that ARL-HX (=ARL-S) refresh must have new SoC tile at least.
In addition, we know that thanks to transition to "Sea of Cells", Intel can refresh compute tile, graphics tile and I/O tile very easily.

I think ARL-R should not be equal to RPL-R.
ARL-R should be like RPL (c.f. ADL).
However, because of tile arch, ARL-R should be more innovative (c.f. RPL vs. ADL).

Intel & AMD Laptop CPU Roadmap Leak: Arrow Lake-HX In 2025, Refresh In 2026 With Panther Lake, Fire Range With 16-Cores & X3D In 2025

Intel & AMD CPU roadmap has leaked out, revealing when we can expect Arrow Lake, Panther Lake, Strix, Krackan and Fire Range chips on laptops.

wccftech.com

Yea, I had the same thought--- that ARL-R might be a meaningful improvement since Lion Cove is a new architecture and might have more room for improvement. However, RL wasn't branded as ADL-R, it was given a new name. That is why I am skeptical that anything branded as "refresh" will have significant improvements.

 

[Hans Gruber]

Panther Lake is Mobile only. And it doesn’t use the same mobile platform as ARL.

So laptop makers will need to make motherboard platform adjustments for PTL.

What you are saying is news to me. What will the 18A desktop CPU be called? Panther Lake is what they call it in literature.

 

[TwistedAndy]

It is actually worse than that. If ARL-R comes out 1 year after ARL, as is usual for Intel refreshes, that means nearly 2027 before a proper next gen for the desktop. This is why I keep repeating that it is imperative that ARL is better than "just ok". If it isn't, Intel is in trouble for at least 2 more years on the desktop.

The refreshed versions of ARL-S and ARL-HX will be announced in October 2025 (S) and January 2026 (HX).

Probably, those SKUs will be built on the newer Intel 18A node and deliver more changes than Raptor Lake Refresh.

 

[Henry swagger]

The refreshed versions of ARL-S and ARL-HX will be announced in October 2025 (S) and January 2026 (HX).

Probably, those SKUs will be built on the newer Intel 18A node and deliver more changes than Raptor Lake Refresh.

Plus the 8+32 sku will come

 

[TwistedAndy]

Plus the 8+32 sku will come

From my perspective, Intel will rather introduce SKUs with higher core counts for their Xeon lineup for workstations.

There is no sense in creating additional competition between the desktop and workstation lineups with the 8+32 consumer SKU.

Even the existing 8+16 config looks nice, if we consider that Skymont is close to Golden Cove in terms of IPC.

 

[SiliconFly]

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