Discussion Intel Meteor, Arrow, Lunar & Panther Lakes + WCL Discussion Threads

[Tigerick]

Wildcat Lake (WCL) Preliminary Specs

Intel Wildcat Lake (WCL) is upcoming mobile SoC replacing ADL-N. WCL consists of 2 tiles: compute tile and PCD tile. It is true single die consists of CPU, GPU and NPU that is fabbed by 18-A process. Last time I checked, PCD tile is fabbed by TSMC N6 process. They are connected through UCIe, not D2D; a first from Intel. Expecting launching in Q2/Computex 2026. In case people don't remember AlderLake-N, I have created a table below to compare the detail specs of ADL-N and WCL. Just for fun, I am throwing LNL and upcoming Mediatek D9500 SoC.

		Intel Alder Lake - N	Intel Wildcat Lake	Intel Lunar Lake		Mediatek D9500
Launch Date		Q1-2023	Q2-2026 ?	Q3-2024		Q3-2025
Model		Intel N300	?	Core Ultra 7 268V		Dimensity 9500 5G
Dies		2	2	2		1
Node		Intel 7 + ?	Intel 18-A + TSMC N6	TSMC N3B + N6		TSMC N3P
CPU		8 E-cores	2 P-core + 4 LP E-cores	4 P-core + 4 LP E-cores		C1 1+3+4
Threads		8	6	8		8
Max Clock		3.8 GHz	?	5 GHz
L3 Cache		6 MB	?	12 MB
TDP		7 W	Fanless ?	17 W		Fanless
Memory		64-bit LPDDR5-4800	64-bit LPDDR5-6800 ?	128-bit LPDDR5X-8533		64-bit LPDDR5X-10667
Size		16 GB	?	32 GB		24 GB ?
Bandwidth			~ 55 GB/s	136 GB/s		85.6 GB/s
GPU		UHD Graphics		Arc 140V		G1 Ultra
EU / Xe		32 EU	2 Xe	8 Xe		12
Max Clock		1.25 GHz		2 GHz
NPU		NA	18 TOPS	48 TOPS		100 TOPS ?

As Hot Chips 34 starting this week, Intel will unveil technical information of upcoming Meteor Lake (MTL) and Arrow Lake (ARL), new generation platform after Raptor Lake. Both MTL and ARL represent new direction which Intel will move to multiple chiplets and combine as one SoC platform.

MTL also represents new compute tile that based on Intel 4 process which is based on EUV lithography, a first from Intel. Intel expects to ship MTL mobile SoC in 2023.

ARL will come after MTL so Intel should be shipping it in 2024, that is what Intel roadmap is telling us. ARL compute tile will be manufactured by Intel 20A process, a first from Intel to use GAA transistors called RibbonFET.

 

[coercitiv]

Would be nice to see a review of such a laptop.

You already saw one in the graph I posted previously, here's a review:

https://www.notebookcheck.net/Asus-Zenbook-14-UM3402Y-laptop-review-New-Ryzen-7-7730U-name-old-Zen-3-performance.724864.0.html

The CPU would spike to 3.6 GHz and 42 W when initiating Prime95 stress. When core temperature reaches 85 C a few seconds later, however, clock rate and board power draw would fall and stabilize at 3.0 to 3.1 GHz and 30 W, respectively. Turbo Boost potential is therefore short-lived at best which is to be expected from a U-series processor.

42W is a 40% boost over the baseline 30W (a rather high baseline considering the cooling). It's still not as bad as the 160%+ you can see on the Spectre x360 (which has a dual fan setup), but will have a major contribution towards spinning up that single fan in the 14" light chassis. Here's what they say about the fan:

Unfortunately, fan noise is high-pitched and more noticeable when running more demanding loads like games. [...] Fan noise can be even louder at over 52 dB(A) if the CPU is at 100 percent utilization to be louder than most other subnotebooks.

This is why I said the aggressive boosting ruins the user experience. These units compete in being slim and light, which inevitably leads to small heatsinks and narrow fans, which inevitably leads to poor heat capacity and fast RPM fans.

 

[eek2121]

If you have a 45W cpu you can always drop it to 15-35W if you are worried about boosting and thermals and such. I actually did that with my “Cezanne”-based laptop and it gave a nice little boost to battery life.

 

[FlameTail]

How can Lion Cove be signuficantly worse than Zen 5?

If it is, then Intel is gonna be in deep trouble, because they will reuse Lion Cove also for the rumoured Arrow Lake Refresh.

 

[igor_kavinski]

If it is, then Intel is gonna be in deep trouble

They will simply trumpet Lunar Lake.

 

[FlameTail]

They will simply trumpet Lunar Lake.

LNL is also using Lion Cove...

 

[igor_kavinski]

LNL is also using Lion Cove...

At low wattage, maybe it's spectacular but for desktop, it doesn't work?

 

[SiliconFly]

LNL is also using Lion Cove...

ARL, LNL, ARL-R, PNL, Diamond Rapids, etc. They're betting too much on LNC! If it tanks, they're history!

 

[coercitiv]

They're betting too much on LNC!

You want more Raptor Cove?

 

[SiliconFly]

You want more Raptor Cove?

Can't say much until LNC is out...

 

[FlameTail]

You want more Raptor Cove?

Does it come bundled with more of the good stuff MLID/RGT consume?

 

[SiliconFly]

This just in: From Toms Hardware...

"Clearwater Forest is comprised of CPU tiles fabbed on the 18A node which are then bonded together with an Intel 3 base die using 3D Foveros packaging technology. The base die also includes cache. "

Tom's hardware says that next year we're all set to receive Intel's first product with ADM cache (built on Intel 3). ADM cache might be larger than expected considering Intel 3 density.

Also, panther & nova lake may feature the same!

 

[igor_kavinski]

Tom's hardware says that next year we're all set to receive Intel's first product with ADM cache (built on Intel 3). ADM cache might be larger than expected considering Intel 3 density.

Where do they say that?

 

[Saylick]

Im surprised they want to use Intel 3 for the base die when cache already doesnt scale.

 

[Philste]

Im surprised they want to use Intel 3 for the base die when cache already doesnt scale.

Probably because it's the first process to support Foveros Direct. It's the special Intel 3-T Version (T for through silicon wires). It's also Intels last FINFET process so it will probably last an eternity as 3D stacked Cache/IO Tile.

 

[Saylick]

Probably because it's the first process to support Foveros Direct. It's the special Intel 3-T Version (T for through silicon wires). It's also Intels last FINFET process so it will probably last an eternity as 3D stacked Cache/IO Tile.

Totally understand, just seems like a waste of an EUV node to be using it on cache. That is, unless Intel 7 just can't accommodate TSVs, which I would find surprising.

 

[adroc_thurston]

Totally understand, just seems like a waste of an EUV node to be using it on cache

i3 has ok SRAM scaling coming off i7 and is also cheaper to make than i7.
That was expected.

 

[DavidC1]

Im surprised they want to use Intel 3 for the base die when cache already doesnt scale.

The L2 cache of Redwood Cove in Crestmont is slightly smaller despite being 2MB in capacity over 1.25MB of Golden Cove, or a 60% increase in density. That's on Intel 4, not 3 which should be further dense.

"Clearwater Forest is comprised of CPU tiles fabbed on the 18A node which are then bonded together with an Intel 3 base die using 3D Foveros packaging technology. The base die also includes cache. "

18A and Foveros Direct. So a single product will be a demonstration on whether they meet their claims or not.

Also, Clearwater Forest has taped out.

 

[FlameTail]

So does Lunar Lake have any 18A parts?

 

[DavidC1]

So does Lunar Lake have any 18A parts?

Highly unlikely. Lunarlake is this year while earliest 18A is Clearwater Forest probably Q2 at the earliest. That's a big gap. They could port it to 18A but it won't be called Lunarlake.

 

[S'renne]

Btw does Intel has any known products to compete with Strix Halo since they now have the Arc iGPUs or just similar lineup as before?

 

[FlameTail]

So all LNL tiles are on N3B?

 

[Tigerick]

So all LNL tiles are on N3B?

IOD should be on TSMC's N6

 

[Tigerick]

Btw does Intel has any known products to compete with Strix Halo since they now have the Arc iGPUs or just similar lineup as before?

I am expecting upcoming NovaLake - H with LPDDR6 support will include big iGPU like Halo. Panther Lake already has 12XE GPU, thus NVL-H should have 20XE, ie 320EU.....sound familar?

 

[FlameTail]

According to this, 18A is 2024, so 18A-P should be 2025, yes?

 

[SiliconFly]

I am expecting upcoming NovaLake - H with LPDDR6 support will include big iGPU like Halo. Panther Lake already has 12XE GPU, thus NVL-H should have 20XE, ie 320EU.....sound familar?

Arrow Lake - Refresh may sport more Xe cores.