Discussion Intel Meteor, Arrow, Lunar & Panther Lakes + WCL Discussion Threads

[Tigerick]

Wildcat Lake (WCL) Specs

Intel Wildcat Lake (WCL) is upcoming mobile SoC replacing Raptor Lake-U. WCL consists of 2 tiles: compute tile and PCD tile. It is true single die consists of CPU, GPU and NPU that is fabbed by 18-A process. Last time I checked, PCD tile is fabbed by TSMC N6 process. They are connected through UCIe, not D2D; a first from Intel. Expecting launching in Q1 2026.

		Intel Raptor Lake U	Intel Wildcat Lake 15W?	Intel Lunar Lake		Intel Panther Lake 4+4+4
Launch Date		Q1-2024	Q2-2026	Q3-2024		Q1-2026
Model		Intel 150U	Intel Core 7	Core Ultra 7 268V		Core Ultra 7 365
Dies		2	2	2		3
Node		Intel 7 + ?	Intel 18-A + TSMC N6	TSMC N3B + N6		Intel 18-A + Intel 3 + TSMC N6
CPU		2 P-core + 8 E-cores	2 P-core + 4 LP E-cores	4 P-core + 4 LP E-cores		4 P-core + 4 LP E-cores
Threads		12	6	8		8
Max Clock		5.4 GHz	?	5 GHz		4.8 GHz
L3 Cache		12 MB		12 MB		12 MB
TDP		15 - 55 W	15 W ?	17 - 37 W		25 - 55 W
Memory		128-bit LPDDR5-5200	64-bit LPDDR5	128-bit LPDDR5x-8533		128-bit LPDDR5x-7467
Size		96 GB		32 GB		128 GB
Bandwidth				136 GB/s
GPU		Intel Graphics	Intel Graphics	Arc 140V		Intel Graphics
RT		No	No	YES		YES
EU / Xe		96 EU	2 Xe	8 Xe		4 Xe
Max Clock		1.3 GHz	?	2 GHz		2.5 GHz
NPU		GNA 3.0	18 TOPS	48 TOPS		49 TOPS

As Hot Chips 34 starting this week, Intel will unveil technical information of upcoming Meteor Lake (MTL) and Arrow Lake (ARL), new generation platform after Raptor Lake. Both MTL and ARL represent new direction which Intel will move to multiple chiplets and combine as one SoC platform.

MTL also represents new compute tile that based on Intel 4 process which is based on EUV lithography, a first from Intel. Intel expects to ship MTL mobile SoC in 2023.

ARL will come after MTL so Intel should be shipping it in 2024, that is what Intel roadmap is telling us. ARL compute tile will be manufactured by Intel 20A process, a first from Intel to use GAA transistors called RibbonFET.

 

[regen1]

If somehow they got 450mm wafers working, they would have gotten a long term benefit.

If the move to 450mm wafers would've materialized in a big way it could've been very beneficial overall. The then TSMC leadership also played its part for it to not happen.

 

[Hulk]

There's a native rendering slide.

https://videocardz.com/newz/intel-says-arc-b390-graphics-are-73-faster-than-amd-radeon-890m-special-version-for-handheld-confirmed

I'm comparing with Notebookcheck results. It's fairly comparable. There are both results that are higher than NBC's results and lower than results. The absolute frames speaks for itself especially against Lunarlake. They were overall right about Lunarlake were they not?

Also, regarding the 4050 comparison. The 45W 4050 is 60-80% faster than the 25W Lunarlake(Thinkpad Gen 6) in average. Of course there are varying results depending on systems as well, since laptops are enormously sophisticated with varying power management and thermals. I get 20-25 fps on E33 with 1440p Med on a GTX 1080 for comparison.

The 25W Pantherlake should be competitive with 35W 4050 and 45W should be competitive with 45W. They said 60W but I'm looking at the conservative side. 25W and 45W doesn't seem like a huge difference(1.77 vs 1.5x which is only about 15%) except obviously on CPU bound titles where it needs more power for CPU to push frames. I'm actually surprised it can keep up in FPS titles like Valorant.

The challenge in Notebook comparisons are the following:
-In CPU bound titles and performance, the iGPUs are at a disadvantage, because the CPU can't flex fully. A system with same GPU but with higher end CPU will do better in that case. A 13th Gen HX with 35W GPU will be faster than 12th Gen H with 45W GPU.
-Thermal and power throttling, in both CPU and GPU
-Varying driver versions
-Sometimes, it just doesn't perform as well. Like you can see few % differences in desktop cards.
-Custom power management settings by the manufacturer. Look at the Intel Lunarlake guide about setting PL2 at least 1W higher than PL1.

Regarding these slides they all rely on the strength of the new igpu and don't say anything about head-to-head CPU performance.
I have a laptop with a 4050 and if they can equal that performance with an igpu then that is something to brag about. Unfortunately for Intel, for some of us like myself, the nVidia advantage is not only gaming with the 4050, apps like PureRaw, Topaz Photo AI, and other AI assisted software that rely on the GPU and Cuda.

It looks good for Intel, but not as rosy as they would like us to believe. Do we have any hard data on performance vs. the HX370 where the gpu's aren't engaged?

 

[511]

All great new for Intel. Better efficiency than HX370 + better performance + iGPU on par with a 4050 is amazing. No doubt!

I will be Cheer Captain as soon as all of this is confirmed by reviewers and actual consumers!

NBC does the best review in that regard

 

[511]

The B390 with L2 is 53-54mm2, the M5 GPU with L2 is ~35-36mm2. The B390 is almost 50% larger. So PPA could be improved.

That being said Intel has gotten a major win and with AMD releasing RDNA 3.5 again, its an easy win for Intel.

Where is the M5 die shot I doubt it would be this small.

Well AMD canned the RDNA4.5 roadmap that would've dealt with it.
It is a nice niche, won't last forever but congrats Intel for finding a free opening.

Well it will last for a year plus they need to work on CPU their Int performance is lacking big time at least the are fixing the ISA Mess next gen.

 

[itsmydamnation]

If the move to 450mm wafers would've materialized in a big way it could've been very beneficial overall. The then TSMC leadership also played its part for it to not happen.

nice link.

i think 450mm wafer is over stated now, the problem is EUV scaner power. so bigger wafer just means more time per step.

 

[fastandfurious6]

IMO, the GPU is impressive because AMD is behind in IP and node

Node yes, IP no: AMD Halo is far superior and won't be replaced anytime by Intel

mobile rtx4050 (similar PTL) is very weak gpu.
mobile rtx4070 (similar Halo) is quite strong.


The problem is AMD intentionally made STX to fill the mid/high gap and kept Halo strictly on super-VIP-premium prices

and STX is a failed product so PTL will take the cake just for this year


also Intel with PTL is attempting marketing boost for 18A

advertises 18A on live as "the most advanced silicon manufacturing process in the world"

PTL has 18A parts + the better GPU which makes it its only usecase, handheld gaming

 

[poke01]

mobile rtx4050 (similar PTL) is very weak gpu.
mobile rtx4070 (similar Halo) is quite strong

Yeah that’s cause halos GPU is massive.

 

[511]

And the competitor is supposed to be the M5 Pro... not the M5 due costs.

I don't think the cost for the CPU will reach M5 Prp it's not a monolithic CPU unlike M5 Pro on N3P

 

[511]

Node yes, IP no: AMD Halo is far superior and won't be replaced anytime by Intel

mobile rtx4050 (similar PTL) is very weak gpu.
mobile rtx4070 (similar Halo) is quite strong.

AMD has worse software support Intel iGPU also works in Creator application like blender/davinci and many other apps lmao PTL GPU is better than Strix point

The problem is AMD intentionally made STX to fill the mid/high gap and kept Halo strictly on super-VIP-premium prices

It will cause issue cause PTL will be widely available and is cheaper than Stric Halo like significant

and STX is a failed product so PTL will take the cake just for this year

also Intel with PTL is attempting marketing boost for 18A

advertises 18A on live as "the most advanced silicon manufacturing process in the world"

PTL has 18A parts + the better GPU which makes it its only usecase, handheld gaming

You know that real volume is cheap parts

 

[Hulk]

If 18A is performing so swimmingly can we expect Intel to start taking those lucrative Blackwell B200 and Rubin contracts? Or even for 5000 series parts in general? Does this mean Intel 18A can be a cutting edge foundry?

What I'm getting at is that this would be good both for Intel and for (us) consumers if AI hardware had more supply to satiate demand. While this might help with GPU's I think it's more Samsung that is fabbing HBM, which more profitable than DDR5, and thus causing shortages?

 

[511]

If 18A is performing so swimmingly can we expect Intel to start taking those lucrative Blackwell B200 and Rubin contracts? Or even for 5000 series parts in general? Does this mean Intel 18A can be a cutting edge foundry

It might be possible with 18AP not 18A cause it's the proper PDK(PDK are a tool that you use to lay out the design). If Intel wins anything this year the design Will come out 28-29.

What I'm getting at is that this would be good both for Intel and for (us) consumers if AI hardware had more supply to satiate demand. While this might help with GPU's I think it's more Samsung that is fabbing HBM, which more profitable than DDR5, and thus causing shortages?

Yeah Memory is more profitable to Samsung right now

 

[poke01]

I don't think the cost for the CPU will reach M5 Prp it's not a monolithic CPU unlike M5 Pro on N3P

Supposedly M5 pro is chiplet based.

You know that real volume is cheap parts

The real winner is the Ultra 5 with 10 Xe core. The Ultra X9 SKU will be likely for $1800-$1999 laptops.

 

[511]

Supposedly M5 pro is chiplet based.

The real winner is the Ultra 5 with 10 Xe core. The Ultra X9 SKU will be likely for $1800-$1999 laptops.

You are getting 32GB/1TB/X7 with B390 at $1299 it's just better than buying X9

Intel Core Ultra X7 358H + 32GB RAM Laptop Around ~$1300 USD - Phoronix

www.phoronix.com

 

[poke01]

You are getting 32GB/1TB/X7 with B390 at $1299 it's just better than buying X9

Intel Core Ultra X7 358H + 32GB RAM Laptop Around ~$1300 USD - Phoronix

www.phoronix.com

The display is FHD+ at 60hz and 8533MHz memory but other than that looks good on paper.

 

[DavidC1]

The display is FHD+ at 60hz and 8533MHz memory but other than that looks good on paper.

The memory will barely make a difference in Intel iGPUs.

FHD is a positive for me. OLED is a intentional upgrade forcing dealbreaker. It will be up to Toshiba to make FHD IPS panels for a great battery life thing and light again when you aren't gaming.

 

[poke01]

FHD is a positive for me. OLED is an intentional upgrade forcing dealbreaker.

HD and FHD+ displays are poor for productivity and creative tasks after getting used to 1440p+ displays.
But they are great for low end gaming.

OLED has improved this year with LTPO displays and tandem OLED. We would obviously have to see how that impacts battery life when compared to previous models.

 

[511]

OLED still has the negative of affecting battery life depending on what you do soo also PTL Independent testing

SOTR - 2880*1800 50FPS Native
CP2077 - same res XeSS Balanced no FG - 48 FPS
F12025 - Same Res - Native - Australia - 53 FPS
Battery vs Non Battery same
59-60W System Power

 

[511]

more benchmark

Benchmarked: Intel's Core Ultra 3 laptop graphics challenge RTX GPUs

We had a chance to go hands-on with a prototype Lenovo Core Ultra 3 notebook at CES 2026 and put the Panther Lake laptop through early gaming tests.

www.pcworld.com

 

[DZero]

HD and FHD+ displays are poor for productivity and creative tasks after getting used to 1440p+ displays.
But they are great for low end gaming.

OLED has improved this year with LTPO displays and tandem OLED. We would obviously have to see how that impacts battery life when compared to previous models.

I don't need graphics, there are no revolution after the PS3 and then the Switch 2. I need more games that has a own soul, not the same game with different skin. And for me Full HD is a good evolution.

A true revolution might be 8K in a distant future.

 

[DZero]

The display is FHD+ at 60hz and 8533MHz memory but other than that looks good on paper.

I can connect with a bigger 1440p 120 Hz screen, but for me that screen is OK as long the consumption is OK.

 

[mvprod123]

Intel claims a 1.5x improvement in GPU performance in Blender. The estimated score is 1180.

 

[Hulk]

As I've written previously I upgraded from a Skylake based Surface Laptop 2 to an Asus ProArtPX14, HX370/4050 this past summer.

The increase in CPU and GPU was transformative. Battery life is not astounding but good enough for me to get out and work for a few hours without needing to plug in. This laptop has an OLED display as well, so all of the energy draining features.

I'm really curious to see how Panther Lake does head-to-head against this set up.

 

[Joe NYC]

As I've written previously I upgraded from a Skylake based Surface Laptop 2 to an Asus ProArtPX14, HX370/4050 this past summer.

The increase in CPU and GPU was transformative. Battery life is not astounding but good enough for me to get out and work for a few hours without needing to plug in. This laptop has an OLED display as well, so all of the energy draining features.

I'm really curious to see how Panther Lake does head-to-head against this set up.

Panther Lake is going to do quite well against your CPU that was released 1.5 years ago and now is a process node behind the leading edge. It's just a progression of technology, and the notebook space is competitive. Notebook segment is Intel's best (most competitive) segment.

One of the reasons Intel is improving its competitiveness (vs. its own Lunar Lake) is by just throwing more die resources at the problem, the other part is just increased refinement. Both in CPU and GPU, and also by maintaining good cadence of releases.

AMD, instead of keeping up, decided to mail it in with Gorgon Point. So, it's Intel's Day in the Sun until AMD gets around to the next REAL product cycle.

 

[511]

AMD, instead of keeping up, decided to mail it in with Gorgon Point. So, it's Intel's Day in the Sun until AMD gets around to the next REAL product cycle.

AMD is recycling RDNA 3.5 for the next gen anyway for the iGPU

 

[Joe NYC]

AMD is recycling RDNA 3.5 for the next gen anyway for the iGPU

Which would be ok(ish) if the product is released on time, mid 2026, and then, if it is followed up with Medusa 1.5, with RDNA5 and LPDDR6 a year+ later.

That would be a signal that AMD is taking the notebook market seriously, and the 40% market share goal from the client market has some real plan behind it.