Intel "Devil's Canyon" on June 2nd - Any Takers?

[coolpurplefan]

I'm still waiting to see if the Asrock Fatal1ty H87 Performance will need a BIOS update to use the i5-4690. Otherwise, I may need to buy the i5-4670 and I wonder if it will be available by the time I have the money to buy it. (lol, I made a funny decision to buy the mobo before buying the RAM and CPU.)

 

[repwolf]

I think we are out in the cold on H97 O/C, hopefully there will be budget Z97 from the usually mfgs. See link below:

Unless Z87 boards are updated for Pentium K.

http://www.tweaktown.com/image.php?image=http://imagescdn.tweaktown.com/news/3/6/36630_2_intel_finalized_specifications_for_9_series_chipset_full.jpg

After getting burned on the price premium of DDR3 for X58; I have little desire to go X99.

And the year to year and a half it takes for DDR4 to match speeds (if the DDR to DDR2 transition holds true this time also), new mainstream stuff will be out that may make the X99 upgrade kinda meh (Broadwell or Skylake?).

Who knows, maybe we will have some competition in the next year that gives us an alternative to the X99 platform; that would make things interesting.

Intel said Devil's Canyon will require the 9 series chipset but the Pentium Anniversary will work with both 8 and 9 series. Will motherboard manufacturers have to update their bios to work with these new Pentiums?

Yikes! Hope not. I just bought a MSI Z8Z board for 25% off assuming it would work with the unlocked Pentiums.

 

[ehume]

I'm waiting to see if Devil's Canyon is soldered. If so, I'm going for it. I already have an upgrade in my sights for the kid -- she uses Photoshop, which will thrive on multi-core -- Haswell-E. But the Canyon is for me, if it is soldered. I want to OC again and my Haswell bottles itself up on AVX2, no matter what heatsink is attached.

 

[VirtualLarry]

I'm waiting to see if Devil's Canyon is soldered. If so, I'm going for it. I already have an upgrade in my sights for the kid -- she uses Photoshop, which will thrive on multi-core -- Haswell-E. But the Canyon is for me, if it is soldered. I want to OC again and my Haswell bottles itself up on AVX2, no matter what heatsink is attached.

You think it's going to be soldered? Curious why, and why you would actually want that. Think it will clock better if it's soldered?

 

[ViRGE]

You think it's going to be soldered? Curious why, and why you would actually want that. Think it will clock better if it's soldered?

I think he means the interface material between the die and the IHS, not soldering the chip down on to the mobo.

Based on SNB vs. IVB, a soldered IHS should offer better temperatures. Though it may not significantly improver overclocking.

 

[Insomniator]

Wow - I just checked my gmail and I bought my microcenter i2500k combo in march of 2011

I definitely have the upgrade itch but I still haven't seen anything where a sandy at 4.4 lags behind a whole lot. Maybe I'll jump if this hits 5ghz easily + the ipc advantage + less power + Microcenter has it cheap... but even then I can almost guarentee I wouldn't notice any difference

Edit: January 2011! March was when they replaced the boards for that bug lol...

 

[fleshconsumed]

Why? Aside from Z97 why would anyone buy lightly overclocked 4770K? Especially since Broadwell-K is so close?

 

[NTMBK]

Why? Aside from Z97 why would anyone buy lightly overclocked 4770K? Especially since Broadwell-K is so close?

Intel is positioning Devil's Canyon as the overclocker's dream CPU. What does that tell you about their expectations for Broadwell clock speeds...?

 

[biostud]

There's a good chance that the first broadwell will be mobile/embedded only, and desktop will come later. Also smaller nodes no longer necessarily means higher frequencies.

 

[blackened23]

There's a good chance that the first broadwell will be mobile/embedded only, and desktop will come later. Also smaller nodes no longer necessarily means higher frequencies.

This is not the case. It was initially planned this way, but intel scrapped those plans and their latest roadmaps do include Broadwell desktop SKUs. So BGA only isn't going to happen.

I think intel thought about doing that, but decided against it. Which is good.

 

[biostud]

This is not the case. It was initially planned this way, but intel scrapped those plans and their latest roadmaps do include Broadwell desktop SKUs. So BGA only isn't going to happen.

I think intel thought about doing that, but decided against it. Which is good.

Ok, but do they launch desktop/mobile versions at the same time?

 

[B-Riz]

Pure speculation on my part, but, based on past Intel refresh releases, the Devil's Canyon *needs* the Z97 due to electrical changes on the CPU, even though it is still physically socket 1150.

I think they made electrical changes and the TIM changes for O/C results.

 

[OBLAMA2009]

i dont know what devils canyon is but id be happy to upgrade if theyd give me a performance reason to do so.....
they seriously need to do something to make the desktop space exciting again

 

[blackened23]

The answer to this question:

Maybe? I'd like to see actual reviews when it hits on June 2nd. Should be interesting if it does have better temperatures than Haswell (original) when over-volted. I don't think temps were the main issue with Haswell OC'ing though. It had more to do with extreme variance in terms of voltages to overclocked clockspeeds. Temps weren't the big issue though. They really weren't. You can just use an AIO and take care of that fairly easily. The bigger problem was the variance with 4770k - I mean, with IVY you could, generally speaking, hit 4.6ghz rather RELIABLY if you used 1.275V or 1.3V with proper cooling. Same with SB. Using 1.5V would get you realiable OC'ed clockspeeds (within 200-300mhz, usually).
Yes, there are exceptions, but Haswell was less reliable in this respect. You can use 1.275V on Haswell and get anywhere from 4.3ghz to 4.7ghz depending. That really wasn't the case with SB or IVY, even though ivy had higher OC'ed temps.

Now silicon lottery still applies of course, but SB and IVY seemed to hit certain clockspeeds much more reliably at set voltage levels. Granted, with Ivy, you *needed* outstanding cooling moreso than with SB. But if you used 1.3V, you could generally get 4.6-4.8ghz. With Haswell it truly was a crapshoot.

Not sure if that situation is fixed, but I sure hope so. I don't care about the temperature.s That can be fixed pretty easily within reason. But the voltage > clockspeed variance; if that's better on DC then I could see myself getting one.

 

[Pheesh]

4 ghz stock i7-4790k, I'll take it! It's not just a TIM change, there's allegedly other changes to the process/package/materials to help with higher frequencies.

Featuring an improved design that incorporates updated packaging materials, improved TIM (Thermal Interface) and processors that are specifically re-engineered for enhanced performance and overclocking.

Read more: http://wccftech.com/intel-devil-s-canyon-launching-june-2014/#ixzz2zjEmJyGf

 

[B-Riz]

4 ghz stock i7-4790k, I'll take it! It's not just a TIM change, there's allegedly other changes to the process/package/materials to help with higher frequencies.

Quote:
Featuring an improved design that incorporates updated packaging materials, improved TIM (Thermal Interface) and processors that are specifically re-engineered for enhanced performance and overclocking.

Read more: http://wccftech.com/intel-devil-s-ca...#ixzz2zjEmJyGf

This feels like Intel is admitting the Haswell release was meh, a slap in the face to the enthusiast fans who don't care if thing are incremental, as long as they can O/C on it better than the last gen.

 

[Insomniator]

This feels like Intel is admitting the Haswell release was meh, a slap in the face to the enthusiast fans who don't care if thing are incremental, as long as they can O/C on it better than the last gen.

I don't really see any reason for Intel to give a crap about overclocking enthusiasts. What is the breakdown, 99.999% sales through dell/hp etc and .001% through newegg selling to people on this forum?

 

[AtenRa]

I don't really see any reason for Intel to give a crap about overclocking enthusiasts. What is the breakdown, 99.999% sales through dell/hp etc and .001% through newegg selling to people on this forum?

I believe most of the High-End (Core i5/7 and K series) sales comes from retail/e-tail than OEMs.

 

[B-Riz]

4 ghz stock i7-4790k, I'll take it! It's not just a TIM change, there's allegedly other changes to the process/package/materials to help with higher frequencies.

I don't really see any reason for Intel to give a crap about overclocking enthusiasts. What is the breakdown, 99.999% sales through dell/hp etc and .001% through newegg selling to people on this forum?

Ugh, I hate to do this due to cliche-ness: BUT;

The above is like saying "I don't see why GM gives a crap about Corvette enthusiasts (or why they bother designing and building it) when they sell volume Cruze / Malibu / Impala in fleet sales." or something to that effect.

People that buy every release because it is new is very important to your business, the repeat customer who will sing your praises or decry your wares at the smallest slight does have an impact, whether most of us believe it or not.

 

[tential]

Ugh, I hate to do this due to cliche-ness: BUT;

The above is like saying "I don't see why GM gives a crap about Corvette enthusiasts (or why they bother designing and building it) when they sell volume Cruze / Malibu / Impala in fleet sales." or something to that effect.

People that buy every release because it is new is very important to your business, the repeat customer who will sing your praises or decry your wares at the smallest slight does have an impact, whether most of us believe it or not.

No this isn't like that at all.

This is like GM saying "I don't give a crap about Corvette Enthusiasts when there are tons of CASUAL Corvette buyers out there." Tons of people buy Corvette's. This would be like GM saying they don't give a crap about a small subset of Corvette buyers who are hyper critical about things.

Forum users are a SMALL subset of enthusiast processors sold. Intel isn't worried about making sure these types of enthusiasts are happy because these types of enthusiasts are hard to please in the first place, and these types of enthusiasts will CONTINUE to purchase Intel products no matter how critical they are of them because it's the BEST OPTION AVAILABLE.

And sorry, but an unhappy enthusiast on a forum isn't going to say much. Even if MANY review sites said "Haswell Desktop Meh." How many people STILL WENT OUT AND BOUGHT IT? You can meh all you want about Haswell, and Devil's Canyon if it turns out to be nothing special. The truth is, you only have one option if you want the best processor and it's intel. If intel did a 20% IPC increase next year, there would no doubt still be enthusiasts on forums saying "I want more." Intel knows that hyper enthusiasts on forums will never be satisfied and will always want more. Catering your products to that extremely small subset of people is the most insane thing you can do as a company. Intel's in the market of being a highly relevant multibillion dollar corporation. Not catering to a small subset of forum enthusiasts to the point where they realize that they're going out of business. Just ask a company like Nintendo what happens when your product only appeals to a small subset of people and isn't what the mass market wants.

They cater to what the PEOPLE want. That means what your mom cares about, your sister cares about, your gf may care about. They aren't really too worried about the fact that you think Haswell underdelivered on OC performance. Wasn't like you were going to then go out and gimp your system with a FX-9590

 

[Bubbleawsome]

I might go for the unlocked pentium. I wish they would do an unlocked i3, but a pentium would do because moneys.

 

[rtsurfer]

No this isn't like that at all.

This is like GM saying "I don't give a crap about Corvette Enthusiasts when there are tons of CASUAL Corvette buyers out there." Tons of people buy Corvette's. This would be like GM saying they don't give a crap about a small subset of Corvette buyers who are hyper critical about things.

Forum users are a SMALL subset of enthusiast processors sold. Intel isn't worried about making sure these types of enthusiasts are happy because these types of enthusiasts are hard to please in the first place, and these types of enthusiasts will CONTINUE to purchase Intel products no matter how critical they are of them because it's the BEST OPTION AVAILABLE.

And sorry, but an unhappy enthusiast on a forum isn't going to say much. Even if MANY review sites said "Haswell Desktop Meh." How many people STILL WENT OUT AND BOUGHT IT? You can meh all you want about Haswell, and Devil's Canyon if it turns out to be nothing special. The truth is, you only have one option if you want the best processor and it's intel. If intel did a 20% IPC increase next year, there would no doubt still be enthusiasts on forums saying "I want more." Intel knows that hyper enthusiasts on forums will never be satisfied and will always want more. Catering your products to that extremely small subset of people is the most insane thing you can do as a company. Intel's in the market of being a highly relevant multibillion dollar corporation. Not catering to a small subset of forum enthusiasts to the point where they realize that they're going out of business. Just ask a company like Nintendo what happens when your product only appeals to a small subset of people and isn't what the mass market wants.

They cater to what the PEOPLE want. That means what your mom cares about, your sister cares about, your gf may care about. They aren't really too worried about the fact that you think Haswell underdelivered on OC performance. Wasn't like you were going to then go out and gimp your system with a FX-9590

I don't really see any reason for Intel to give a crap about overclocking enthusiasts. What is the breakdown, 99.999% sales through dell/hp etc and .001% through newegg selling to people on this forum?

How many forum users would there have to be to make a substantial part of Intel's income.?

If over clocking enthusiasts were such a small niche then custom PC assemblers such as Digital Storm, Origin Pc, Maingear, etc wouldn't exist.

There shouldn't be any closed loop AIOs or Cpu Waterblocks made.
Because going by your math.
The companies wouldn't sell enough of those products to make back their production costs/ R&D etc.

Also if enthusiast are such a small portion then I don't think that Intel needed to launch the Xtreme Ocers warranty.

Forum users are a significant (read: not ultimate but in no ways SMALL) part of intel's revenue. They have to care about them.X79-X99 exist in part due to Ocing enthusiasts and the other half being for video encoders/ photoshops pro, etc. Most of whom also OC their CPU.

There are entire line of products that exist just for OCers, you cannot call that small.

 

[B-Riz]

No this isn't like that at all.

...

They cater to what the PEOPLE want. That means what your mom cares about, your sister cares about, your gf may care about. They aren't really too worried about the fact that you think Haswell underdelivered on OC performance. Wasn't like you were going to then go out and gimp your system with a FX-9590

That escalated quickly.

The point of the matter is that Intel is releasing a halo product for a minority of customers.

A vocal (enthusiastic) minority that some think does not matter to a company as large as Intel.

So, if these repeat customers do not matter, why release something like Devil's Canyon and Pentium K?

 

[Insomniator]

How many forum users would there have to be to make a substantial part of Intel's income.?

If over clocking enthusiasts were such a small niche then custom PC assemblers such as Digital Storm, Origin Pc, Maingear, etc wouldn't exist.

There shouldn't be any closed loop AIOs or Cpu Waterblocks made.
Because going by your math.
The companies wouldn't sell enough of those products to make back their production costs/ R&D etc.

Also if enthusiast are such a small portion then I don't think that Intel needed to launch the Xtreme Ocers warranty.

Forum users are a significant (read: not ultimate but in no ways SMALL) part of intel's revenue. They have to care about them.X79-X99 exist in part due to Ocing enthusiasts and the other half being for video encoders/ photoshops pro, etc. Most of whom also OC their CPU.

There are entire line of products that exist just for OCers, you cannot call that small.

I've thought the same about all of the products you mentioned + discrete video cards and PC gaming in general. I dunno, I have only my own experiences... but I didn't know anybody in high school or college that built their own systems like me... and I still haven't really seen anybody at my two IT jobs that is so interested in PC hardware. Maybe we are all quiet about our interests... I have tons of friends on xbox live and about 4 on STEAM.

I would imagine most of the K chips are sold by ibuypower and other gaming vendors... not to individuals walking into microcenter.

 

[schmuckley]

I already know which one i want
maybe 2