Discussion Intel current and future Lakes & Rapids thread

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shady28

Platinum Member
Apr 11, 2004
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Something I noticed today, maybe because of the unofficial/official release date announcements for Zen 4 and RPL, but I think DDR5 is starting to sell out.

I've been going back on forth on getting ADL on sale or waiting for RPL, doing builds and so on online for fun and reading memory reviews and so on, and just noticed a sudden reduction in the available selection of DDR5 kits.

Prices are still good on what's there, for now, but not quite as good as last week... Just anecdotal.
 

nicalandia

Diamond Member
Jan 10, 2019
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Something I noticed today, maybe because of the unofficial/official release date announcements for Zen 4 and RPL, but I think DDR5 is starting to sell out.
Good News is that with Raptor Lake you can still use DDR4... If you don't mind having less FPS on games.
 

nicalandia

Diamond Member
Jan 10, 2019
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So from Igor's Lab

"The problems and errors are collected under NDA in internal documents ("so-called NDA sights") and currently amount to almost 500 (!) entries, with the trend continuing to rise. [...] This started with A0 and A1, then proceeded via B0, C0, C1, C2, D0, E0, E2, E3 and E4 until currently stepping E5! The market launch was planned about 1.5 years ago and the plan was recently updated again".

YuuKi_AnS is currently sampling QS E3 samples.. He has yet to get it's hands on E5 samples with the least amount of bugs.


1659652257082.png
 
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Markfw

Moderator Emeritus, Elite Member
May 16, 2002
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So from Igor's Lab

"The problems and errors are collected under NDA in internal documents ("so-called NDA sights") and currently amount to almost 500 (!) entries, with the trend continuing to rise. [...] This started with A0 and A1, then proceeded via B0, C0, C1, C2, D0, E0, E2, E3 and E4 until currently stepping E5! The market launch was planned about 1.5 years ago and the plan was recently updated again".

YuuKi_AnS is currently sampling QS E3 samples.. He has yet to get it's hands on E5 samples with the least amount of bugs.
I assume you are talking about Sapphire Rapids Xeon chips ?
 
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shady28

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Hmm, this actually doesn't sounds like nearly as big a deal with Sapphire Rapids as some folks are making it out to be.

"
Matt Ramsay -- Cowen and Company -- Analyst
...
You guys just mentioned some reserves we need to take for Sapphire, and the time lines have been pushed out. So I guess the questions are, one, Pat, can you give us a more specific timing on where things are with Sapphire Rapids, not just early units, but actual volume production? And secondly, this push out, how does this impact the time lines for Emerald and Granite? Do you see those pushing out sort of congruent with the push out here? Or are those time lines going to be held and maybe the platforms be a little bit different? I'm just curious on the road map. Thank you.
Pat Gelsinger -- Chief Executive Officer
Yeah. And giving a bit more detail on Sapphire, we're already ramping a number of SKUs of Sapphire Rapids already. They began ramping last quarter. So we have a number of those ramping.
The particular issue that we highlighted wasn't affecting those SKUs, so those continue to ramp. So we did another tape out, which I'll say, for the larger volume SKUs, and those will be volume shipping in the second half of the year.
So you'll see us ramping those and launching those. So we're fully on track for that, and we feel like we're over all of the issues that we've had in bringing that product to marketplace.
So we feel very comfortable with that. We're then working very closely -- emerald goes into the Sapphire platform. So we're working very closely with our customers on the timing there. The product is looking very healthy.
So we're nicely on track. So that will be a '23 product. And then Granite and Sierra Forest is the '24 product. And just to remind everybody, this is a major new platform.
"

I'm going to speculate here that this delay does not have much to do with the defects. 500 actually doesn't sound like a lot to me having seen large software projects begin with thousands.

I think people perhaps assumed the leaks about intel not lowering prices before release this fall due to OEMs having too much inventory was about Raptor Lake. I'd bet it was really about Cascade Lake. From what I can tell the channel is chock full of those 14nm processors in bread and butter servers. And that stuff ain't cheap. Probably the same story we're seeing in retail like Walmart and Target, OEMs over-ordered back in 2020 and 2021 and then things changed and they have a glut.

So, delay of 'lower end' Sapphire Rapids SKUs for 'errata' may just be to do something useful while the OEMs clear out old inventory.

On the high end, HPC realm, that's not in a glut from what I can see, and I bet that is what they are starting to supply. It's all Ice Lake-SP and EPYC. Things like the HP SuperDome and Dell PowerEdge XE, or Cisco UCS for VM clusters.
 
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Markfw

Moderator Emeritus, Elite Member
May 16, 2002
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Hmm, this actually doesn't sounds like nearly as big a deal with Sapphire Rapids as some folks are making it out to be.

...snip....
OK< they are already 1.5 years late, and will be even later for some skews. That does not sound like a big problem ? And AMD is selling server chips as fast as they can make them ? And the Q2 number prove that ? Thats not a big deal ?????
 

nicalandia

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Jan 10, 2019
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Hmm, this actually doesn't sounds like nearly as big a deal with Sapphire Rapids as some folks are making it out to be.

"
Matt Ramsay -- Cowen and Company -- Analyst
Don't take Intel at their word. Sapphire Rapids has been delayed beyond hope, We should have had a One vs One Sapphire Rapids vs Milan back on 2021
 
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Markfw

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May 16, 2002
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Don't take Intel at their word. Sapphire Rapids has been delayed beyond hope, We should have had a One vs One Sapphire Rapids vs Milan back on 2021
Exactly. I have been so lied to by Intel over the past several years and I no longer believe anything they tell me.

AMD on the other hand has been right on for the last few years (since ~2017) and they have some credibility.
 

pakotlar

Senior member
Aug 22, 2003
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Not so good news for Meteor Lake:
They fired most of their Senior Validation Engineers many years ago and put a Non-Rehire clause on them.

But now....

Intel has quietly revoked the no-rehire rule and says it will welcome back workers who can fill its many job openings.
god what were they thinking…
 

shady28

Platinum Member
Apr 11, 2004
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They fired most of their Senior Validation Engineers many years ago and put a Non-Rehire clause on them.

But now....

Intel has quietly revoked the no-rehire rule and says it will welcome back workers who can fill its many job openings.

Wow, that kinda pisses me off.

I knew they laid people off but that's kinda normal in corporate America. But that no rehire thing... For any who aren't aware, in high functioning positions where companies want to ask questions of your former employer, they can't ask questions about very many things at all, and former employers don't answer very many things - for liability reasons. In fact, usually there is just one question they can answer - is this person eligible for rehire? That is a possible career killer. That was a really -redacted- thing to do.

As you're already aware, profanity is not allowed in the tech forums.

Daveybrat
AT Moderator
 
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Markfw

Moderator Emeritus, Elite Member
May 16, 2002
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Wow, that kinda pisses me off.

I knew they laid people off but that's kinda normal in corporate America. But that no rehire thing... For any who aren't aware, in high functioning positions where companies want to ask questions of your former employer, they can't ask questions about very many things at all, and former employers don't answer very many things - for liability reasons. In fact, usually there is just one question they can answer - is this person eligible for rehire? That is a possible career killer. That was a really --redacted--thing to do.
Thats just one of the reasons that I dislike Intel.
 
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poke01

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Mar 8, 2022
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Thats just one of the reasons that I dislike Intel.
I like both AMD and Nvidia - they both excel at their fields.
Nvidia has been the king of GFX and now AI for a long time and for good reason their IP is 99.99% excellent.
AMD is dominating servers and CPU are great. GPU is improving and great for keeping Nvidia at bay with prices ;)

Intel though, CPUs - meh, GPU - horrible, Server - sad. What is Intel good at? Their designs are inefficient and they have no goal.
 
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poke01

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Mar 8, 2022
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It was specifically the server pre-Si validation team that got laid off, iirc. Which is why their client chips haven't been delayed nearly as badly.
and you wonder why they are in this mess now....

Intel is lost until least until Lunar Lake. Their Lunar Lake better be on top in pref/w and MAINLY not delayed they like said otherwise Intel will become
a budget option for most people. Intel will lose its ultra premium appeal its once had and is slowing loosing it status as a proper datacentre chip maker.
 
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Doug S

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If you reach 'E5' stepping you should just throw in the towel and concentrate your resources, such as they are, on whatever comes next.
 
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coercitiv

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Jan 24, 2014
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Not sure if this posted here as well, so here it is with a slight risk of redundancy:

TrendForce's Intel Meteor Lake report seems to have caught the company's attention. Intel's PR firm sent out an unsolicited note this afternoon reiterating that Meteor Lake will be delivered in 2023, and manufacturing remains on schedule
 

DrMrLordX

Lifer
Apr 27, 2000
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What if the delay is a result of TSMC in this particular instance?

Pretty sure we had an article or two in the advanced foundry/fab thread relating the opposite scenario. Might only be rumour status but, Intel keeps delaying Meteor Lake. Whatever wafers Intel is taking for the iGPUs will need to be delivered later.

If you reach 'E5' stepping you should just throw in the towel and concentrate your resources, such as they are, on whatever comes next.

. . . Emerald Rapids.