Discussion Intel current and future Lakes & Rapids thread

[Abwx]

This looks promising and I would like the coming reviews to take a look at it.

That s not that impressive, if you take a theorical 16 cores RKL at 14nm it would have 60% better MT perf at same power than a 8C RKL and barely 1/4 of the power at same MT perf.

Now shrink the thing to 10nm like ADL and you get the picture between what they have and what they could have got.

 

[naukkis]

It looks good when compared to a 14nm part that was pushed to it's limits.

Yes, and btw it's now only +50% instead of previously talked 100%......

 

[nicalandia]

That s not that impressive, if you take a theorical 16 cores RKL at 14nm it would have 60% better MT perf at same power than a 8C RKL and barely 1/4 of the power at same MT perf.

Now shrink the thing to 10nm like ADL and you get the picture between what they have and what they could have got.

and it looks worst if you do that with a Tigerlake instead of the 14nm backport

 

[naukkis]

and it looks worst if you do that with a Tigerlake instead of the 14nm backport

Seems like Golden Cove-cores burn power like nothing before.

 

[AtenRa]

Well, im only looking at it from a product point of view.

Having the same perf at 1/4 the consumption at the same MSRP its nice , no matter the technical aspects.

 

[DrMrLordX]

they used unpatched Windows 11 build, so Ryzen was underperforming

Nice to finally figure out why MS might have released Win11 a few weeks earlier than they could roll out a patch for Ryzen performance.

Doesn't AMD consider PBO overclocking? No guarantee that all cores can hit the top frequencies, etc.

Yes.

 

[naukkis]

Well, im only looking at it from a product point of view.

Having the same perf at 1/4 the consumption at the same MSRP its nice , no matter the technical aspects.

But you can have it from the other manufacturer for even less. Alderlake MT performance and efficiency seems nothing to write about despite being hybrid arch.

 

[JoeRambo]

But you can have it from the other manufacturer for even less. Alderlake MT performance and efficiency seems nothing to write about despite being hybrid arch.

One has to wonder if that mystical vendor is not AMD, widely panned at launch of ZEN3 for skipping "budget" SKUs and pricing 5600x / 5800x at rather nasty prices? Competition has arrived and AMD will have to adjust, everyone wins, simple as that.
While obviuosly Intel has pushed top SKUs way too far to match 5950x in MT performance tests noone cares about, there are plenty of great value SKUs down the line. I mean if 12600x is just 250$, 12400 will rock as long as Intel is allowing memory tuning on non Z, getting 6 big cores @4ghz will spell game over for overpriced AMD CPUs.

 

[Zucker2k]

Is DDR4 3200MHz 14-14-14-34 JEDEC standard?
November 4th can't get here fast enough.

 

[eek2121]

Seems like Golden Cove-cores burn power like nothing before.

Well yes, I think we knew that.

That being said, it does look like Intel has improved the process somewhat.

 

[RTX]

Is 4GHz GC enough to match 4.4/4.5 GHz Zen3 performance?

 

[nicalandia]

Is 4GHz GC enough to match 4.4/4.5 GHz Zen3 performance?

No, they barely match it at 5 Ghz in gaming(they were testing a Win11 version that is known to gimp 15% off on the 5950X)

 

[jpiniero]

Interesting, the 8+8 die is only 206 mm2. That's barely bigger than Tiger Lake H.

 

[Arkaign]

No, they barely match it at 5 Ghz in gaming(they were testing a Win11 version that is known to gimp 15% off on the 5950X)

To be fair, we have no idea. All the leaks can look great, average, or terrible, but people should wait for Gamers Nexus, Anandtech, Hardware Unboxed etc for practical results. Hell it's less than two weeks away.

Saying it's amazing or terrible currently could easily end up r\confidentlyincorrect

 

[nicalandia]

To be fair, we have no idea.

We know for sure that Windows 11 pre-patch was reducing Zen3 performance by 15%, they tested with pre-patch Windows 11 build.

 

[Markfw]

To be fair, we have no idea. All the leaks can look great, average, or terrible, but people should wait for Gamers Nexus, Anandtech, Hardware Unboxed etc for practical results. Hell it's less than two weeks away.

Saying it's amazing or terrible currently could easily end up r\confidentlyincorrect

By Intels own admission, it uses a lot of power, and barely beats the 5950x with a hosed buggy OS and 100 watts more power (and heat) and they recommend water cooling. Those are not in question. Thats not good news.

But the final decision should be made after Nov 4th, I grant you that.

 

[scannall]

To be fair, we have no idea. All the leaks can look great, average, or terrible, but people should wait for Gamers Nexus, Anandtech, Hardware Unboxed etc for practical results. Hell it's less than two weeks away.

Saying it's amazing or terrible currently could easily end up r\confidentlyincorrect

Lots of Hype-Trains or Hype-Titanics running around with these leaks. It's amusing, but meaningless really. We'll have hard numbers in the very near future. Though I gotta say if the 241 watt PL1 holds up, it's a non-starter for a lot of people.

 

[Arkaign]

By Intels own admission, it uses a lot of power, and barely beats the 5950x with a hosed buggy OS and 100 watts more power (and heat) and they recommend water cooling. Those are not in question. Thats not good news.

But the final decision should be made after Nov 4th, I grant you that.

That's why I'm a bit ehh on the top tier. To be fair I also thought the 10900k and 11900k were idiotic units as well. They cost a lot more and offered very little over their i7 counterparts, while also being heat monsters under all core loads.

The 12400 through 12700 range intrigues me though. We have had an absolute dearth of great $200-$250 range options for ages now. AMD bringing out a 5600 non X to meet it at $199 would be sweet.

CPUs often remind me a lot of people arguing over cars lol. Some people are like "well this super special version is way better than brand X super special version", when 90% of people are going to be comparing what they can get that fits a tighter budget.

To be clear I'm not saying you're a part of that, but the level of attention on the 12900K is slightly amusing to me, from people either very excited or very dismissive, but it's probably the least relevant piece of the entire lineup in terms of potential market, volume, or revenue.

 

[Markfw]

That's why I'm a bit ehh on the top tier. To be fair I also thought the 10900k and 11900k were idiotic units as well. They cost a lot more and offered very little over their i7 counterparts, while also being heat monsters under all core loads.

The 12400 through 12700 range intrigues me though. We have had an absolute dearth of great $200-$250 range options for ages now. AMD bringing out a 5600 non X to meet it at $199 would be sweet.

CPUs often remind me a lot of people arguing over cars lol. Some people are like "well this super special version is way better than brand X super special version", when 90% of people are going to be comparing what they can get that fits a tighter budget.

To be clear I'm not saying you're a part of that, but the level of attention on the 12900K is slightly amusing to me, from people either very excited or very dismissive, but it's probably the least relevant piece of the entire lineup in terms of potential market, volume, or revenue.

I realize I am in the minority (a big minority), but I honestly wanted a 16 core/24 thread or better that was efficient. My 142 watt 5950x's are killing it in DC, and my EPYC's do geat, but the cheap ones have dried up, so now I want cheap and lots of threads. BTW, I run mine 24/7/365@100% load, so efficiency is a must.

 

[moinmoin]

CPUs often remind me a lot of people arguing over cars lol. Some people are like "well this super special version is way better than brand X super special version", when 90% of people are going to be comparing what they can get that fits a tighter budget.

Apt comparison.

Though thankfully with CPUs it's not as bad as with GPUs where both the pricing and total wattage of the parts went through an extreme shift of what's considered "normal". I guess that development was possible mainly due the huge remainder of people relying on abundantly available iGPUs instead.

 

[nicalandia]

I realize I am in the minority (a big minority), but I honestly wanted a 16 core/24 thread or better that was efficient. My 142 watt 5950x's are killing it in DC, and my EPYC's do geat, but the cheap ones have dried up, so now I want cheap and lots of threads. BTW, I run mine 24/7/365@100% load, so efficiency is a must.

Have you ever asked yourself why the Xeons will lack any E Cores? and Why the desktop parts do?

 

[Hulk]

The additional info Intel provided today has me amped up for Alder Lake. Not because it's going to crush Zen 3 and not because it's going to get crushed by Zen 3, but because we finally have a viable option from Intel to compete with Zen 3. Depending on the usage scenario and budget both will end up being good choices.

As much as I'm looking forward to Alder I must admit Zen 3 is still proving to be a robust microarchitecture. If I had to make a bet I'd say across the board Golden Cove will only end up being about 7% better than Zen 3. With it's clockspeed advantage that may grow to 10 to 15% but of course that will come at the expense of heat and power.

 

[nicalandia]

I wonder what is the SMT boost on this Golden Cove Cores. They are Very Wide and should extract more from HT/SMT than Skylake based processors. Anyone with SMT info on Rocket Lake? is it the usual 19-24% boost on good threaded apps? Amd wide core allows it to extract 30% on SMT, would be cool to see if they have achieved parity with that fat core

 

[Hulk]

I wonder what is the SMT boost on this Golden Cove Cores. They are Very Wide and should extract more from HT/SMT than Skylake based processors. Anyone with SMT info on Rocket Lake? is it the usual 19-24% boost on good threaded apps? Amd wide core allows it to extract 30% on SMT, would be cool to see if they have achieved parity with that fat core

Based on leaked benches I think SMT up to 30% is possible with Golden Cove.

 

[nicalandia]

Based on leaked benches I think SMT up to 30% is possible with Golden Cove.

But that's counting the E cores as threads as well?