Discussion Intel current and future Lakes & Rapids thread

[ondma]

Because they want to price it like 5900X?

5900x usually is the best binned, will have the highest single core performance. 5800x is generally equal or slightly slower than 5900x in gaming.

 

[ondma]

I find this very disappointing, 14nm rocket lake can't even beat 10 core skylake, let alone compete with Zen3

Intel Core i9-11900K qualification sample compared with Core i9-10900K at 5.2 GHz @ https://videocardz.com/newz/intel-c...ample-compared-with-core-i9-10900k-at-5-2-ghz

The testing platform features ASUS ROG STRIX RTX 3090, Z490 motherboard, and memory clocked at 3600 MHz (CL16). Both processors have been overclocked to 5.2 GHz and are cooled down by an industrial CPU chiller. The preview has been shared by Bibibili creator 二斤啦啦啦啦.

CPU-Z
In CPU-Z the Core i9-11900K scores 693 points which are around 11% faster than 10900K, however. In the multi-threaded test, the CPU scores 6723 points which means that Comet Lake-S CPU is still 13% faster. This is of course due to the fact that the 10th Gen Core CPU offers more threads (20) than the 11th Gen Core (16).
View attachment 37630

View attachment 37631

Cinebench
The CPU has been tested in all three popular versions of Cinbench. It looks that the 11th Gen Core processor has a clear advantage in the single-threaded benchmark while falling to compete with the current flagship in the multi-threaded benchmark.

	Cinebench R15	Cinebench R20	Cinebench R23
Core i9-11900K	250 / 2356	610 / 5672	1582 / 13864
Core i9-10900K	223 / 2655	526 / 6374	1388 / 16535

View attachment 37632View attachment 37633View attachment 37634

3DMark

Combined Scores	Fire Strike	Fire Strike Extreme	Time Spy	Time Spy Extreme
Core i9-11900K	31294	19303	11339	8289
Core i9-10900K	30225	19421	11406	8525

Wow, 10 cores are faster than 8 in multi threaded benchmarks. Who would ever have thought that.
You do realize, I hope, that RL would have to have 25% higher IPC to equal CL in multi threaded benchmarks.

 

[Hulk]

Wow, 10 cores are faster than 8 in multi threaded benchmarks. Who would ever have thought that.
You do realize, I hope, that RL would have to have 25% higher IPC to equal CL in multi threaded benchmarks.

If that is true then CL 10 core and RL 8 core should have the same multithreaded performance right?

 

[ondma]

If that is true then CL 10 core and RL 8 core should have the same multithreaded performance right?

No, I said RL would have to have 25% better IPC to reach CL multithreaded performance, which obviously it does not, and which no one expected.

 

[Abwx]

Looking at those scores @ 5.2Ghz that OCed Rocketlake part cannot match 5800X @ stock in those benchmarks (both ST or MT). It is clear that Zen3 has noticeable IPC advantage that +500Mhz clock cannot compensate.

IPC delta in CB R15/R20 is 15/10% in ST and 26/22% in MT.

Zen 3 actual frequencies :

AMD Ryzen 5950X, 5900X, 5800X & 5600X im Test: Analysen zu IPC, Takt und Latenzen

AMD Ryzen 5000 im Test: Analysen zu IPC, Takt und Latenzen / AMD vergleicht die IPC jetzt anders / IPC-Zuwachs im Testparcours

www.computerbase.de

ST and MT scores :

AMD Ryzen 5950X, 5900X, 5800X & 5600X im Test: Benchmarks in Anwendungen

AMD Ryzen 5000 im Test: Benchmarks in Anwendungen / Multi-Core-Szenarien / Single-Core-Szenarien

www.computerbase.de

Overall Intel would be still a generation behind if it wasnt their significantly higher frequencies, albeit at the expense of efficency.

 

[Asterox]

Because they want people to believe that it require 12 Zen 3 cores to match 8 RKL cores, otherwise they would had used a 5800X as comparison since they could had displayed better numbers..

Intel wishes, there will be not a single independent CPU review 8/16 Zen 3 vs 8/16 Rocket Lake.Who needs that comparison, and again "if anyone mentions blue power consumption they will be shot"

 

[JoeRambo]

I know for sure, noone in my country will be comparing them with 16C 5950X cause they are simply not available here. The rest are trickling in now, months after launch. 5600X is about as rare as RTX3080

 

[blckgrffn]

I just wish Intel had come to their sense some months/years sooner and that 10th Gen Desktop parts would have be RKL from the jump.

The thing is we need Intel's fab capacity on 14nm through at least 2021, imo, and it would be nice to get the best parts possible on that node. There seems to be little reason - beyond hubris and planning - that Intel could not have done this a year sooner. They had to know even if 7nm was going to be the savior it still might be that they wouldn't have the ability to build out capacity that quickly.

10C was a neat trick but ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

[Zucker2k]

Tigerlake-U x Rocketlake-S Annotated die shots...

 

[uzzi38]

Wow, 10 cores are faster than 8 in multi threaded benchmarks. Who would ever have thought that.
You do realize, I hope, that RL would have to have 25% higher IPC to equal CL in multi threaded benchmarks.

More importantly from that video - the gaming results were decidedly lacklustre. Leading Comet Lake by a handful (
And that's with DDR4-3600 memory so the 1:2 style thing the memory controller can do doesn't apply here. Like FCLK that is automatically enabled when mem frequency surpasses 3600MHz RAM.

Personally - and I'm more than happy to discuss this - but from what I've seen of Rocket Lake I'm actually a little disappointed. 2-8% lead over Zen 3 (Intel's official numbers) in games where multiple games where Comet Lake already outperformed Zen 3 isn't enough of a selling point IMO, and the performance in the video just backs up those performance numbers.

At the end of the day, pricing and availability of both RKL and Zen 3 in March is what'll make or break Rocket Lake rather than performance IMO.

 

[Hulk]

No, I said RL would have to have 25% better IPC to reach CL multithreaded performance, which obviously it does not, and which no one expected.

Sorry I read that too fast. Yes that makes perfect sense. 19% won't quite cut it.

 

[COAk]

Tigerlake-U x Rocketlake-S Annotated die shots...

View attachment 37657

They could have had a seperate die for the igpu, then use that spare space for two more cores and maybe a bit more pcie lanes/ddr4 channels. I wonder why they did not do that...

 

[Hulk]

They could have had a seperate die for the igpu, then use that spare space for two more cores and maybe a bit more pcie lanes/ddr4 channels. I wonder why they did not do that...

It could be that a huge percentage of their sales are Best Buy, Dell, HP, Lenovo and the like and the people they sell to don't really need more than 4 cores (for the most part) let alone 8. We are a pretty small subset of the computing landscape here on this forum. We know better and know how to use the compute!

 

[coercitiv]

At the end of the day, pricing and availability of both RKL and Zen 3 in March is what'll make or break Rocket Lake rather than performance IMO.

One more factor to consider: stock clocks drop from i9 to i7 to i6. I expect clocks won't drop as severely as they do on TGL, but anything more than 5% might turn things around for both 5800X and 5600X, at least as far as stock configs go.

Based on what we know so far we can safely assume RKL i9 will be the new gaming king, but other than that situation is very fluid. Zen 3 availability isn't nearly as bad as some of our fellow posters from US are tempted to think based on local availability, and we still have 3-4 months to go before RKL shows up in stores.

 

[uzzi38]

One more factor to consider: stock clocks drop from i9 to i7 to i6. I expect clocks won't drop as severely as they do on TGL, but anything more than 5% might turn things around for both 5800X and 5600X, at least as far as stock configs go.

Based on what we know so far we can safely assume RKL i9 will be the new gaming king, but other than that situation is very fluid. Zen 3 availability isn't nearly as bad as some of our fellow posters from US are tempted to think based on local availability, and we still have 3-4 months to go before RKL shows up in stores.

Yep, that's another reason why both Intel and AMD's pricing matters.

If AMD drops the price of the 5800X such that it's closer to the 11700K's price, and the 11900K is left to compete with the 5900X, then only the latter will likely have a 1T advantage at all. Rumoured boost clock for the 11700K is 5GHz flat, and that 5% reduction to 1T perf is really enough to change the story altogether

 

[shady28]

Yep, that's another reason why both Intel and AMD's pricing matters.

If AMD drops the price of the 5800X such that it's closer to the 11700K's price, and the 11900K is left to compete with the 5900X, then only the latter will likely have a 1T advantage at all. Rumoured boost clock for the 11700K is 5GHz flat, and that 5% reduction to 1T perf is really enough to change the story altogether

Nah, you can get +/- 5% just by choosing a different motherboard. When you get that close, it doesn't matter to any normal person and other components can shift the winner / loser. I would say anything within 5% is effectively the same, in this case on gaming (11900K vs 5900X).

I get the impression Intel did 11900K vs 5900X comparison because that is the price point they want for 11900K, $550. I would be more interested in the 11700K vs 5800X @$450.

But in the real world, I think the main questions will be one of availability (most important) and price.

>5% difference, same GPU, CPU and RAM, different motherboard - and this is with an old GPU :

 

[Kocicak]

Is it common to display a name of your competitor with a picture of death symbol close to it? In the press video Intel showed this for 12 seconds.

I mean, arent they afraid to curse themselves or something???

 

[coercitiv]

Is it common to display a name of your competitor with a picture of death symbol close to it? In the press video Intel showed this for 12 seconds.

Is it common for normal people to put skulls on the heads of marketing people from companies they dislike?

What Intel did is pathetic and they deserve being laughed at, but this is not the thread to do it and that modified picture is definitely not the proper message.

 

[Hougy]

Press Center - TSMC to Kick off Mass Production of Intel CPUs in 2H21 as Intel Shifts its CPU Manufacturing Strategies, Says TrendForce | TrendForce - Market research, price trend of DRAM, NAND Flash, LEDs, TFT-LCD and green energy, PV

Intel has outsourced the production of about 15-20% of its non-CPU chips, with most of the wafer starts for these products assigned to TSMC and UMC, according to TrendForce’s latest investigations. While the company is planning to kick off mass production of Core i3 CPUs at TSMC’s 5nm node in...

www.trendforce.com

This is huge if true. I'm happy Intel is doing it.

Does it mean we will see CPUs from TSMC before Intel 7nm?

 

[Gideon]

Press Center - TSMC to Kick off Mass Production of Intel CPUs in 2H21 as Intel Shifts its CPU Manufacturing Strategies, Says TrendForce | TrendForce - Market research, price trend of DRAM, NAND Flash, LEDs, TFT-LCD and green energy, PV

Intel has outsourced the production of about 15-20% of its non-CPU chips, with most of the wafer starts for these products assigned to TSMC and UMC, according to TrendForce’s latest investigations. While the company is planning to kick off mass production of Core i3 CPUs at TSMC’s 5nm node in...

www.trendforce.com

This is huge if true. I'm happy Intel is doing it.

Does it mean we will see CPUs from TSMC before Intel 7nm?

What an awful click-bait article headline:
headline: "TSMC to Kick off Mass Production of Intel CPUs in 2H21 ..."
content:

Intel has outsourced the production of about 15-20% of its non-CPU chips ...

 

[Kocicak]

Is it common for normal people to put skulls on the heads of marketing people from companies they dislike?

What Intel did is pathetic and they deserve being laughed at, but this is not the thread to do it and that modified picture is definitely not the proper message.

I actually dislike such symbols of death and deplore current culture, where death, destruction and violence seem to be a norm, especially in all types of media (including computer games).

On the other hand, if you call, you may get a reply.

Dislaying a message, conveying that AMD=death and Intel=headlines for 12 seconds in a video is such a ridiculous thing, that I do not consider my response inappropriate.

They even could have displayed the AMD notebook on a barrel of poison with AMD logo on it, and dress the presenter in blue, add wings and a halo. Angelic Intel against poisonous AMD. Would that be more ridiculous than what they did? It would be pretty comparable IMO.

 

[shady28]

I actually dislike such symbols of death and deplore current culture, where death, destruction and violence seem to be a norm, especially in all types of media (including computer games).

On the other hand, if you call, you may get a reply.

Dislaying a message, conveying that AMD=death and Intel=headlines for 12 seconds in a video is such a ridiculous thing, that I do not consider my response inappropriate.

They even could have displayed the AMD notebook on a barrel of poison with AMD logo on it, and dress the presenter in blue, add wings and a halo. Angelic Intel against poisonous AMD. Would that be more ridiculous than what they did? It would be pretty comparable IMO.

Lets be real. The mask is something you did. The skull and crossbones are representing a virus attack, and she states that it is normally transparent to a user - they get no such warning. She is illustrating how vPro protects the user. VPro is a real advantage if say, your company handles credit card and personal customer information. Many companies require this type of protection.

Anyone who wants to see the real video can go here and fast forward to 7:05.

The virus pops up on the AMD laptop :



On the Intel system, vPro / CET stops the attack :

CES 2021: Intel News Conference – Gregory Bryant: Do More with the Power of Computing

 

[uzzi38]

Lets be real. The mask is something you did. The skull and crossbones are representing a virus attack, and she states that it is normally transparent to a user - they get no such warning. She is illustrating how vPro protects the user. VPro is a real advantage if say, your company handles credit card and personal customer information. Many companies require this type of protection.

Anyone who wants to see the real video can go here and fast forward to 7:05.

The virus pops up on the AMD laptop :

View attachment 37755

On the Intel system, vPro / CET stops the attack :

View attachment 37756

CES 2021: Intel News Conference – Gregory Bryant: Do More with the Power of Computing

AMD have a vPro alternative as a part of Ryzen Pro. Did Intel even mention it or was it totally glossed over?

 

[dmens]

AMD have a vPro alternative as a part of Ryzen Pro. Did Intel even mention it or was it totally glossed over?

Intel also glossed over the fact that their AMT is absolutely riddled with security holes and bugs.

 

[uzzi38]

Also, these guys did another test on RKL-S now that they have PCIe 4.0 working:

(88) 11代酷睿11900K游戏性能提前测试 网游被5600X吊打 单机不如十代i9 只能价格战 - YouTube