• Guest, The rules for the P & N subforum have been updated to prohibit "ad hominem" or personal attacks against other posters. See the full details in the post "Politics and News Rules & Guidelines."

Discussion Intel current and future Lakes & Rapids thread

Page 419 - Seeking answers? Join the AnandTech community: where nearly half-a-million members share solutions and discuss the latest tech.

Zucker2k

Golden Member
Feb 15, 2006
1,387
727
136
IMO it is absurd to have a single thread for everything Intel while AMD has a thread to every family of products, every generation.

It made more sense to have 1 thread for everything skylake based, but IMO now, when we multiple quite different products we should move on from this thread.
Have we forgotten so soon the brain behind this mega monstrosity of a thread? The irony is right there in your "likes."
 

B-Riz

Golden Member
Feb 15, 2011
1,428
521
136
IMO it is absurd to have a single thread for everything Intel while AMD has a thread to every family of products, every generation.

It made more sense to have 1 thread for everything skylake based, but IMO now, when we multiple quite different products we should move on from this thread.
Imma throw some gas on this fire, I tried to search for an Intel 10 Series / Comet Lake Builders thread, nothing. Would have been nice to have something like we do for Zen to reference as I am debating a 10600K to fiddle with.
 

B-Riz

Golden Member
Feb 15, 2011
1,428
521
136
I think the MindFactory data is interesting and does belong in this thread.

I didn't take it as a dig against Intel/Rocket Lake. It's the sales ramifications, albeit from one source, of Intel's recent engineering/design decisions with the "Lakes."
I was looking yesterday at a 6c/12t 10 or 11 series, and, there are not decent budget boards for sale right now, everything is back ordered.

I refuse to spend more than $150 for a Z590 board, beyond that, I will just get another nice X570.

Maybe that is why sales are low on this stuff; yeah the CPU's are cheap, but the boards are expensive.
 

blckgrffn

Diamond Member
May 1, 2003
7,715
931
126
www.teamjuchems.com
I was looking yesterday at a 6c/12t 10 or 11 series, and, there are not decent budget boards for sale right now, everything is back ordered.

I refuse to spend more than $150 for a Z590 board, beyond that, I will just get another nice X570.

Maybe that is why sales are low on this stuff; yeah the CPU's are cheap, but the boards are expensive.
That’s been my usual experience with Intel. That’s why lately I’ve been all B360/365 boards. Only last fall when there was no Zen 3 to buy did I step up and spend $230+ on a board for a 10850k. Otherwise since overclocking is a nonstarter and I am not buying the beast SKUs the “lesser” boards are fine.
 

Ajay

Diamond Member
Jan 8, 2001
8,459
3,287
136
IMO it is absurd to have a single thread for everything Intel while AMD has a thread to every family of products, every generation.

It made more sense to have 1 thread for everything sky-lake based, but IMO now, when we multiple quite different products we should move on from this thread.
I agree, it's gone far enough. Maybe you could make a thread for Adler Lake and it's follow on 10nm products clearly spelled out in the title (or Intel 10nm Client/Server CPUs, IDK). Then someone can do 7nm Intel thread. I've tried that before, but you have to keep posting good stuff for it to pick up steam - it's hard to beat the momentum of large threads. Best of luck!
 

Hulk

Platinum Member
Oct 9, 1999
2,997
436
126
"Alder Lake and 10nm desktop" would be a good thread title. But I'm a little nostalgic about letting this one go!

Or maybe "Alder Lake and other Intel 10nm Enthusiast Processors." Might be nice to discuss Tiger Lake(s) along with Alder Lake.
 

Exist50

Senior member
Aug 18, 2016
255
297
136
"Alder Lake and 10nm desktop" would be a good thread title. But I'm a little nostalgic about letting this one go!

Or maybe "Alder Lake and other Intel 10nm Enthusiast Processors." Might be nice to discuss Tiger Lake(s) along with Alder Lake.
If nothing else, Raptor Lake should probably fall in the same bucket.
 

Panino Manino

Senior member
Jan 28, 2017
407
490
136
I think the MindFactory data is interesting and does belong in this thread.
Someting interesting I noticed looking those graphs is that MindFactory must LOVE AMD. Look how their sales increased since Zen launched.
AMD having a good product that makes the consumer believes (and they right) that gives them more for less does good for this whole industry.

Is possible that CPU sales will increase even more after Intel solves its problems and start to offer the same in the ways of consumers?
 

repoman27

Member
Dec 17, 2018
65
78
61
I like this thread a lot, but just taking an objective look at it, there are some fairly logical points where it could be divided.

It was originally started to discuss the post Skylake / 10nm processor families that were on Intel's roadmap at the time: Cannon Lake, Ice Lake, Tiger Lake, and Sapphire Rapids. As we eventually learned, these processors included Palm Cove, Sunny Cove, and Willow Cove cores on various attempts at a 10nm manufacturing process: 10, 10+ > 10, and 10++ > 10+ > 10SF. Most of the subsequent 14nm Skylake refreshes were simply added to the existing Skylake thread, although I believe Comet Lake got its own spot. Rocket Lake with its Cypress Cove cores was a bit of a mongrel, being a 14nm backport of Sunny Cove along with Gen12 Xe Graphics, and it sort of made sense to include it here. Emerald Rapids looks like another crack at Willow Cove on 10SF, or essentially Sapphire Rapids Refresh, so it also makes sense to tack it on to this thread.

Alder Lake with Golden Cove and Gracemont cores marks the beginning of the hybrid architecture era for Intel client CPUs. It's not just another refresh, and the code name wasn't even publicly known when this thread was started. Alder Lake, Raptor Lake, and Granite Rapids would make a lot of sense as their own thread seeing as they are all future platforms based on Golden Cove / 10ESF. Likewise for Meteor Lake, Lunar Lake, and Diamond Rapids, which I believe are all Ocean Cove / 7nm.

It does seem like this thread has always been much more roadmap / leak / future product focused, rather than a builder's thread discussing released / available products.
 

Tarkin77

Member
Mar 10, 2018
34
59
61
Igor's Lab shared some details on an ADL-S B0-Stepping ES


correct me if I am wrong, but B0 sounds not "early" ... on the contrary. (RKL retail is B0, isn't it?)

If these clocks (4.6 1-2 core and 4.0 all-core) are near final .... that doesn't look very promising to me.
 

coercitiv

Diamond Member
Jan 24, 2014
4,308
5,514
136
If these clocks (4.6 1-2 core and 4.0 all-core) are near final .... that doesn't look very promising to me.
ES clocks and early benchmark leaks always give you information about the minimum performance to expect, not the final performance. Max boost @ 4.6Ghz is a good place to be considering it can probably squeeze something extra until the end of the year, which means the 4.0 all-core clocks are entirely limited by power consumption.

The only warning this ES gives us is the separated clock domains for big and small cores (and I mean that in the sense of relative difference, not linkage). I think that from now on we can seriously consider the small cores won't clock as high as the big cores, even if neither cores in the ES are working at final max frequency.
 

jpiniero

Diamond Member
Oct 1, 2010
9,197
1,815
126

Videocardz got the Intel Tiger Lake-H slides from the launch. Says embargo is until May 11th.

Also, the 8 core i7 only has turbo boost to 4.6 and all core to 4.2. Guess they have to give a reason to sell the H35.
 

eek2121

Senior member
Aug 2, 2005
884
965
136

Videocardz got the Intel Tiger Lake-H slides from the launch. Says embargo is until May 11th.

Also, the 8 core i7 only has turbo boost to 4.6 and all core to 4.2. Guess they have to give a reason to sell the H35.
The reviews are going to be really interesting. These chips appear to perform just as well as Zen 3. We will see how things play out. If Intel can stick with Zen 3 while not having supply issues (and while not sending prices through the roof) they may have a winner.
 

coercitiv

Diamond Member
Jan 24, 2014
4,308
5,514
136
The reviews are going to be really interesting. These chips appear to perform just as well as Zen 3. We will see how things play out. If Intel can stick with Zen 3 while not having supply issues (and while not sending prices through the roof) they may have a winner.
The really interesting part will be when someone decides to connect a high-end TGL-H laptop to an external GPU enclosure and test performance versus desktop CPUs. That's when we'll find out just how inspired the backporting was for performance reasons...

I'm extremely curious to see inter-core latency for TGL-H. (while being cautiously optimistic)
 

scineram

Member
Nov 1, 2020
122
95
61
Igor's Lab shared some details on an ADL-S B0-Stepping ES


correct me if I am wrong, but B0 sounds not "early" ... on the contrary. (RKL retail is B0, isn't it?)

If these clocks (4.6 1-2 core and 4.0 all-core) are near final .... that doesn't look very promising to me.
If this thing launches this year it better not be early sample.
 

B-Riz

Golden Member
Feb 15, 2011
1,428
521
136
Someting interesting I noticed looking those graphs is that MindFactory must LOVE AMD. Look how their sales increased since Zen launched.
AMD having a good product that makes the consumer believes (and they right) that gives them more for less does good for this whole industry.

Is possible that CPU sales will increase even more after Intel solves its problems and start to offer the same in the ways of consumers?
I think it is a combination of a few things:

AMD has a lot of same socket upgradability, so someone can buy a good enough Zen1 / Zen2 right now and get a Zen3 later.

A lot of cheap new and used boards that are good enough to run most AM4 CPU's.

PCIE4 NVME drives, hey, it's 1 bigger than Intel's PCIE3 capability.

Intel 10 and 11 series are not clear dominators in any price bracket right now; Zen2 and Zen3 are very competitive, and people seem to be buying more on specific use cases (how much gaming / productivity one does) than "Intel still faster" like with Zen1.

New Intel 1200 boards are expensive compared to new AMD AM4 boards

Now that AMD has had a good product out for a few years, people are less scared to try AMD.

This is what a healthy x86 CPU ecosystem looks like, and, we have not had it from the time Core 2 Duo launched until Zen1 launched. That was a long period where people were pretty much forced to pay Intel tax for incremental IPC increases.
 

eek2121

Senior member
Aug 2, 2005
884
965
136
The really interesting part will be when someone decides to connect a high-end TGL-H laptop to an external GPU enclosure and test performance versus desktop CPUs. That's when we'll find out just how inspired the backporting was for performance reasons...

I'm extremely curious to see inter-core latency for TGL-H. (while being cautiously optimistic)
Mobile RTX 3080 should give us an idea of performance. We will also likely see full blown desktop parts in some of the higher end design.

Personally, from either Intel OR AMD I would like to see:

  1. Weight 2-3.5 lbs
  2. 8 cores
  3. 4K screen
  4. Mobile 3060, 3070, 3080 or AMD equivalent.
  5. Full keyboard (backlit)
  6. 15” (better: 16” using thin bezels)
  7. Decent battery life for non-gaming stuff
From there I would pick based on price/performance. Linux compatibility is also a must. Thunderbolt compatibility helps, but is not a must.

That is why Tiger Lake intrigues me. Intel looks like they may be able to help deliver in this area.
 

B-Riz

Golden Member
Feb 15, 2011
1,428
521
136
Mobile RTX 3080 should give us an idea of performance. We will also likely see full blown desktop parts in some of the higher end design.

Personally, from either Intel OR AMD I would like to see:

  1. Weight 2-3.5 lbs
  2. 8 cores
  3. 4K screen
  4. Mobile 3060, 3070, 3080 or AMD equivalent.
  5. Full keyboard (backlit)
  6. 15” (better: 16” using thin bezels)
  7. Decent battery life for non-gaming stuff
From there I would pick based on price/performance. Linux compatibility is also a must. Thunderbolt compatibility helps, but is not a must.

That is why Tiger Lake intrigues me. Intel looks like they may be able to help deliver in this area.
Sounds like you want a MacBook Pro or something, I don't think there is a Windows / Linux laptop that light, maybe the Razer Blade?
 

mikk

Diamond Member
May 15, 2012
3,120
938
136
Igor's Lab shared some details on an ADL-S B0-Stepping ES


correct me if I am wrong, but B0 sounds not "early" ... on the contrary. (RKL retail is B0, isn't it?)

If these clocks (4.6 1-2 core and 4.0 all-core) are near final .... that doesn't look very promising to me.

B0 doesn't say that much, Intel launched Haswell and Skylake in C0. But even if it's final, this model could be a low end 8+8 version. In this document this ES is named Core-1800. There could be 19xx versions. On Tigerlake-H 8C the 800H SKU is the slowest clocked 8C.

11800H max 4.6 Ghz
11900H max 4.9 Ghz
11980HK max 5.0 Ghz
 

coercitiv

Diamond Member
Jan 24, 2014
4,308
5,514
136
Sounds like you want a MacBook Pro or something, I don't think there is a Windows / Linux laptop that light, maybe the Razer Blade?
There isn't any period, the 16" MB Pro is 4.3 lbs and the 15" Razer starts at 4.6 lbs. Only the 13" MB Pro with iGPU is ~ 3 lbs :D
 

uzzi38

Golden Member
Oct 16, 2019
1,522
2,895
106
B0 doesn't say that much, Intel launched Haswell and Skylake in C0. But even if it's final, this model could be a low end 8+8 version. In this document this ES is named Core-1800. There could be 19xx versions. On Tigerlake-H 8C the 800H SKU is the slowest clocked 8C.

11800H max 4.6 Ghz
11900H max 4.9 Ghz
11980HK max 5.0 Ghz
1800 is just because the base clock is 1800MHz. It has nothing to do with SKUs.
 

cortexa99

Member
Jul 2, 2018
161
227
86
If 1800Mhz is the base clock, and 4.6 max, overall it looks a bit worrisome, maybe ES2 still has some distance to QS/retail version. I think the low base clock is mostly due to AVX512.
 

ASK THE COMMUNITY