Discussion Intel current and future Lakes & Rapids thread

[coercitiv]

Somebody messed up on this launch. Intel's statement regarding early sale of RKL-S inventory:

We take our embargo agreements seriously. We are aware of a retailer selling unreleased products and are following up as appropriate.

We cannot comment on particular actions taken by retailers. We have ongoing discussions with partners which are confidential as part of our policy. We take our embargo agreements seriously and are following up as appropriate.

The sales embargo for 11th Gen Desktop processors (Rocket Lake S) is March 30, 2021 at 6 a.m. PT / 9 a.m. ET.

 

[Dave2150]

Fine. It's just my opinion that most people can "get by" with an 8 core processor. You think that's an unreasonable statement I get it. I won't mention it further. I could back up my statement but I didn't think it that outlandish to require evidence.

If you think most people need 12 or 16 or 32 cores then that is your opinion. We shall agree to disagree.

I 100% agree with this. The use case for > 8 cores on the desktop is for the extreme minority, who'd likely be far better served virtualizing a compute resource on an appropriate, business class infrastructure.

 

[IEC]

I'm disappointed. For a tech forum there is a distinct lack of imagination and desire for pushing the boundaries of what is possible.

With AR, full self-driving, and various other technologies previously considered only science fiction on the cusp of becoming reality, a bean counter approach to chip development will relegate that vendor to obsolescence sooner than they realize. The pace of technological improvements will only accelerate, and anyone caught on the lagging edge will be washed away by the waves of change coming over the next decade.

But for the folks with little imagination: Because of advanced power management and the usefulness of Big.little cores, there will *commonly* be more than 8 cores on an upcoming consumer platform by 2022, but they will be split into performance and efficiency cores.

I will neither confirm nor deny that they might also outperform everything currently on the market. And no, I'm not talking about Alder Lake.

 

[Asterox]

Somebody messed up on this launch. Intel's statement regarding early sale of RKL-S inventory:

Well, by defoult RocketLake is messed up no doubt.

CPU backport, it always is a desperate move or when you have no other choice.Who wants a power hungry 5ghz+CPU gaming king faster up to 5%.

 

[Panino Manino]

edit: wrong thread

So, there are really new processors out there? Those early benchmarks were really accurate and RKL isn't much better than Zen 3?

 

[IEC]

edit: wrong thread

So, there are really new processors out there? Those early benchmarks were really accurate and RKL isn't much better than Zen 3?

Yes, some 11700K CPUs got sold early in Germany.

In the case of the 11700K, it is not better than the 5800X, ST or MT. Whether 11900K is better in gaming remains to be seen, but it's likely to be within margin of error on average and likely with some *ahem* configuration anomalies you'll only notice if you check the footnotes of slides... you can bet marketing will trumpet even a 3% win, though, given that single/lightly-threaded games/apps will be the use case for buying a power-hungry 14nm+++++ chip. If you need MT performance it's not going to be the ticket.

Given the big ST, 4-thread, and MT clockspeed differences between the 11700K and the 11900K, I expect the latter is a binned part that will be available in low quantities and will probably still sell out given the voracious appetite for gaming PCs right now.

 

[Hulk]

Given the big ST, 4-thread, and MT clockspeed differences between the 11700K and the 11900K, I expect the latter is a binned part that will be available in low quantities and will probably still sell out given the voracious appetite for gaming PCs right now.

Were the ST, 4t, nt speeds for the 11700K and 11900K posted in the specs on the Mindfactory site? I see they are pulled down and somehow missed this. Can somebody post those specs? I am very interested to see them!

 

[IEC]

Were the ST, 4t, nt speeds for the 11700K and 11900K posted in the specs on the Mindfactory site? I see they are pulled down and somehow missed this. Can somebody post those specs? I am very interested to see them!

Take with a grain of salt since no 11900K(F) has been seen in the wild yet, but supposedly 5.3GHz TVB 1T / 5.1GHz 4T turbo / 4.8GHz all-core boost.

 

[Hulk]

Found this on videocardz.com and put it in a table for what it's worth.

If this is correct I find it interesting that the base clock for 11700K is 100MHz higher than for the 11900K. Higher leakage parts for the 11900K? Struggling for that last 100MHz?

Rocket Lake - videocardz.com	11700	11700k	11900	11900k	11700T	11900T
Thermal Velocity Boost 1 core	No	No	5.2	5.3	No	No
Thermal Velocity Boost 3.0	Yes	Yes	Yes	Yes	Yes	Yes
Intel TBMT3 Frequency	4.9	5	5.1	5.2	4.6	4.9
1 turbo	4.9	5	5.2	5.3	4.6	4.9
2 turbo	4.9	5	5.2	5.3	4.6	4.9
4 turbo	4.7	4.9	5	5.1	4.3	4.6
6 turbo	4.6	4.7	4.8	4.9	4	4.1
8 turbo	4.4	4.6	4.7	4.8	3.6	3.7
TDP	65	125	65	125	35	35
TDP Down	N/A	95	N/A	N/A	25	25
Base Clock	2.5	3.6	2.5	3.5	1.4	1.5

 

[dullard]

If this is correct I find it interesting that the base clock for 11700K is 100MHz higher than for the 11900K. Higher leakage parts for the 11900K? Struggling for that last 100MHz?

Thanks for the table, it is helpful. My computer died last week in the power outage and I'm looking for a new one. Normally I wouldn't wait, but with AMD chips hard to find and Intel launch just around the corner, I'm eagerly trying to figure out whether to get the scrap that I can get now or wait a month.

The 100 MHz base speed drop is curious. The i9 has to provide something that the i7 doesn't have. A miniscule bump up in turbo doesn't justify the price difference. People have been hinting at something else, but what it is stumps me. I'm not hopeful for a surprise new feature. Since the power has to go somewhere, that power that would have gone to the base clock usually goes with more cores or more uncore features. More cores is very unlikely. But, would it be a slightly better version of something? Faster iGPU? Better memory speed support? Better hyperthreading? What? If I had my dream, it would be Intel using the iGPU for something so it doesn't just sit idle.

 

[naukkis]

Since the power has to go somewhere, that power that would have gone to the base clock usually goes with more cores or more uncore features. More cores is very unlikely. But, would it be a slightly better version of something? Faster iGPU? Better memory speed support? Better hyperthreading? What? If I had my dream, it would be Intel using the iGPU for something so it doesn't just sit idle.

Or in case that manufacturer is really desperate, it might be just extra leaky chips being able to clock sky high with extreme power use....

 

[coercitiv]

This is nothing new. Rememeber base clocks are not reached under CPU stress, but CPU + iGPU stress.

TDP 125W
10900K base clock - 3.7Ghz
10700K base clock - 3.8Ghz

cTDP 95W
10900K base clock - 3.3Ghz
10700K base clock - 3.5Ghz

 

[naukkis]

10900K = 10 cores, 10700K = 8 cores. 11900K &11700K = both 8 cores, so base clock difference is coming from something else.

 

[coercitiv]

10900K = 10 cores, 10700K = 8 cores. 11900K &11700K = both 8 cores, so base clock difference is coming from something else.

I was looking at the increasing frequency delta as TDP goes down.

 

[lobz]

I would argue that most of that millions of office workers could "get by" with a paper, pencil and calculator.

I take it you have never worked in an office in your life, or if you did, it was a government office.

 

[lobz]

I'm disappointed. For a tech forum there is a distinct lack of imagination and desire for pushing the boundaries of what is possible.

With AR, full self-driving, and various other technologies previously considered only science fiction on the cusp of becoming reality, a bean counter approach to chip development will relegate that vendor to obsolescence sooner than they realize. The pace of technological improvements will only accelerate, and anyone caught on the lagging edge will be washed away by the waves of change coming over the next decade.

But for the folks with little imagination: Because of advanced power management and the usefulness of Big.little cores, there will *commonly* be more than 8 cores on an upcoming consumer platform by 2022, but they will be split into performance and efficiency cores.

I will neither confirm nor deny that they might also outperform everything currently on the market. And no, I'm not talking about Alder Lake.

It could even be 15 times as fast as my current PC, if it's locked into having to use Mac OS. Not worth it. When they change the way they handle their user base, maybe.

 

[Mopetar]

I take it you have never worked in an office in your life, or if you did, it was a government office.

Are you kidding? Government office workers don't even need paper and pencil since they rarely do any work.

Frankly, that's probably for the best.

 

[Elfear]

I take it you have never worked in an office in your life, or if you did, it was a government office.

Are you kidding? Government office workers don't even need paper and pencil since they rarely do any work.

Frankly, that's probably for the best.

I think neither of you guys have worked in a govt office before. I've worked both sides of the fence and most of the govt employees I've worked with are hard workers. Most of the time it is impossible to get everything done in a 40-hr work week. And no, it's not because we use paper and pencils...

*Hmm, let's see. I just got a bunch of laptops for our office with a "Lakes" processor so kind of on topic?

 

[Mopetar]

To quote Foghorn Leghorn, "That's a joke, son!"

 

[Hulk]

I'm starting to wonder if one of the competitors to the 11700k is going to be the 10850k? RKL will have a definite single core advantage but it'll be much closer for multicore, perhaps with 10850k winning for some MT workloads. Pricing between the two may be very close as well.

 

[cortexa99]

Looks messy, MSI just revise statement of the newest Z490-S01 bios.
before:

- Update ME 14.1
- Support Re-size BAR function to enhance GPU performance including the Nvidia GeForce RTX 3000 series and others.
- BIOS updated to be compatible with 11th Gen Intel Processors
- Improved compatibility of PCIe-based devices.

after:

- Update ME 14.1
- Support Re-size BAR function to enhance GPU performance including the Nvidia GeForce RTX 3000 series and others.
- Improved compatibility of PCIe-based devices.

Might be a confirmation of some low-end Z490 lost a chance to support Rocketlake, even some engineers being puzzled by this.

for people who don't know what's happening:

Likely not all Z490 motherboard will support Rocket Lake-S processors

Admittedly, this is getting a little confusing, isn't it? Earlier this week you have been able to read here that Intel will not support H410 and B460 motherboards for their eleventh-generation desk...

www.guru3d.com

 

[Dave2150]

Looks messy, MSI just revise statement of the newest Z490-S01 bios.
before:

after:


Might be a confirmation of some low-end Z490 lost a chance to support Rocketlake, even some engineers being puzzled by this.

for people who don't know what's happening:

Likely not all Z490 motherboard will support Rocket Lake-S processors

Admittedly, this is getting a little confusing, isn't it? Earlier this week you have been able to read here that Intel will not support H410 and B460 motherboards for their eleventh-generation desk...

www.guru3d.com

I imagine most who planned to buy RKL will be coming from older platforms. Doubt there'll be many 10th gen users, on the cheapest z490 motherboards, who'll want to upgrade that soon.

 

[dullard]

I imagine most who planned to buy RKL will be coming from older platforms. Doubt there'll be many 10th gen users, on the cheapest z490 motherboards, who'll want to upgrade that soon.

There must be some niche that this matters to:
(A) They have so much money they they feel the need to upgrade to every one of the latest CPUs.
(B) They have so little money that selling their motherboard and buying a new one is a problem.

 

[Hulk]

There must be some niche that this matters to:
(A) They have so much money they they feel the need to upgrade to every one of the latest CPUs.
(B) They have so little money that selling their motherboard and buying a new one is a problem.

(C) They had a project that required an immediate upgrade and went with Comet Lake with the intent to upgrade to Rocket.

 

[JoeRambo]

(C) They had a project that required an immediate upgrade and went with Comet Lake with the intent to upgrade to Rocket.

And when faced with 100% guaranteed loss of money implied in such upgrade, they have chosen to cheapen out and bought the most basic of Z490 motherboards there is out there. The guys who do such upgrades are enthusiasts and one can bet that they did their research properly.
Not only they will have Z490 that supports RKL, but most likely that mb will also properly support PCIE4 (again result of their research ) and have awesome power delivery components that were already required by 10th gen.