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Discussion Intel current and future Lakes & Rapids thread

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coercitiv

Diamond Member
Jan 24, 2014
4,271
5,418
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Somebody messed up on this launch. Intel's statement regarding early sale of RKL-S inventory:
Intel said:
We take our embargo agreements seriously. We are aware of a retailer selling unreleased products and are following up as appropriate.
Intel said:
We cannot comment on particular actions taken by retailers. We have ongoing discussions with partners which are confidential as part of our policy. We take our embargo agreements seriously and are following up as appropriate.
Intel said:
The sales embargo for 11th Gen Desktop processors (Rocket Lake S) is March 30, 2021 at 6 a.m. PT / 9 a.m. ET.
 

Dave2150

Senior member
Jan 20, 2015
635
174
116
Fine. It's just my opinion that most people can "get by" with an 8 core processor. You think that's an unreasonable statement I get it. I won't mention it further. I could back up my statement but I didn't think it that outlandish to require evidence.

If you think most people need 12 or 16 or 32 cores then that is your opinion. We shall agree to disagree.
I 100% agree with this. The use case for > 8 cores on the desktop is for the extreme minority, who'd likely be far better served virtualizing a compute resource on an appropriate, business class infrastructure.
 

IEC

Elite Member
Super Moderator
Jun 10, 2004
14,005
3,784
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I'm disappointed. For a tech forum there is a distinct lack of imagination and desire for pushing the boundaries of what is possible.

With AR, full self-driving, and various other technologies previously considered only science fiction on the cusp of becoming reality, a bean counter approach to chip development will relegate that vendor to obsolescence sooner than they realize. The pace of technological improvements will only accelerate, and anyone caught on the lagging edge will be washed away by the waves of change coming over the next decade.

But for the folks with little imagination: Because of advanced power management and the usefulness of Big.little cores, there will *commonly* be more than 8 cores on an upcoming consumer platform by 2022, but they will be split into performance and efficiency cores.

I will neither confirm nor deny that they might also outperform everything currently on the market. And no, I'm not talking about Alder Lake.
 

Panino Manino

Senior member
Jan 28, 2017
389
485
136
edit: wrong thread

So, there are really new processors out there? Those early benchmarks were really accurate and RKL isn't much better than Zen 3?
 

IEC

Elite Member
Super Moderator
Jun 10, 2004
14,005
3,784
136
edit: wrong thread

So, there are really new processors out there? Those early benchmarks were really accurate and RKL isn't much better than Zen 3?
Yes, some 11700K CPUs got sold early in Germany.

In the case of the 11700K, it is not better than the 5800X, ST or MT. Whether 11900K is better in gaming remains to be seen, but it's likely to be within margin of error on average and likely with some *ahem* configuration anomalies you'll only notice if you check the footnotes of slides... you can bet marketing will trumpet even a 3% win, though, given that single/lightly-threaded games/apps will be the use case for buying a power-hungry 14nm+++++ chip. If you need MT performance it's not going to be the ticket.

Given the big ST, 4-thread, and MT clockspeed differences between the 11700K and the 11900K, I expect the latter is a binned part that will be available in low quantities and will probably still sell out given the voracious appetite for gaming PCs right now.
 

Hulk

Platinum Member
Oct 9, 1999
2,974
413
126
Given the big ST, 4-thread, and MT clockspeed differences between the 11700K and the 11900K, I expect the latter is a binned part that will be available in low quantities and will probably still sell out given the voracious appetite for gaming PCs right now.
Were the ST, 4t, nt speeds for the 11700K and 11900K posted in the specs on the Mindfactory site? I see they are pulled down and somehow missed this. Can somebody post those specs? I am very interested to see them!
 

IEC

Elite Member
Super Moderator
Jun 10, 2004
14,005
3,784
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Were the ST, 4t, nt speeds for the 11700K and 11900K posted in the specs on the Mindfactory site? I see they are pulled down and somehow missed this. Can somebody post those specs? I am very interested to see them!
Take with a grain of salt since no 11900K(F) has been seen in the wild yet, but supposedly 5.3GHz TVB 1T / 5.1GHz 4T turbo / 4.8GHz all-core boost.
 

Hulk

Platinum Member
Oct 9, 1999
2,974
413
126
Found this on videocardz.com and put it in a table for what it's worth.

If this is correct I find it interesting that the base clock for 11700K is 100MHz higher than for the 11900K. Higher leakage parts for the 11900K? Struggling for that last 100MHz?


Rocket Lake - videocardz.com1170011700k1190011900k11700T11900T
Thermal Velocity Boost 1 coreNoNo5.25.3NoNo
Thermal Velocity Boost 3.0YesYesYesYesYesYes
Intel TBMT3 Frequency4.955.15.24.64.9
1 turbo4.955.25.34.64.9
2 turbo4.955.25.34.64.9
4 turbo4.74.955.14.34.6
6 turbo4.64.74.84.944.1
8 turbo4.44.64.74.83.63.7
TDP65125651253535
TDP DownN/A95N/AN/A2525
Base Clock2.53.62.53.51.41.5
 

dullard

Elite Member
May 21, 2001
22,711
984
126
If this is correct I find it interesting that the base clock for 11700K is 100MHz higher than for the 11900K. Higher leakage parts for the 11900K? Struggling for that last 100MHz?
Thanks for the table, it is helpful. My computer died last week in the power outage and I'm looking for a new one. Normally I wouldn't wait, but with AMD chips hard to find and Intel launch just around the corner, I'm eagerly trying to figure out whether to get the scrap that I can get now or wait a month.

The 100 MHz base speed drop is curious. The i9 has to provide something that the i7 doesn't have. A miniscule bump up in turbo doesn't justify the price difference. People have been hinting at something else, but what it is stumps me. I'm not hopeful for a surprise new feature. Since the power has to go somewhere, that power that would have gone to the base clock usually goes with more cores or more uncore features. More cores is very unlikely. But, would it be a slightly better version of something? Faster iGPU? Better memory speed support? Better hyperthreading? What? If I had my dream, it would be Intel using the iGPU for something so it doesn't just sit idle.
 
Last edited:

naukkis

Senior member
Jun 5, 2002
418
273
136
Since the power has to go somewhere, that power that would have gone to the base clock usually goes with more cores or more uncore features. More cores is very unlikely. But, would it be a slightly better version of something? Faster iGPU? Better memory speed support? Better hyperthreading? What? If I had my dream, it would be Intel using the iGPU for something so it doesn't just sit idle.
Or in case that manufacturer is really desperate, it might be just extra leaky chips being able to clock sky high with extreme power use....
 

coercitiv

Diamond Member
Jan 24, 2014
4,271
5,418
136
This is nothing new. Rememeber base clocks are not reached under CPU stress, but CPU + iGPU stress.

TDP 125W
10900K base clock - 3.7Ghz
10700K base clock - 3.8Ghz

cTDP 95W
10900K base clock - 3.3Ghz
10700K base clock - 3.5Ghz
 
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naukkis

Senior member
Jun 5, 2002
418
273
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10900K = 10 cores, 10700K = 8 cores. 11900K &11700K = both 8 cores, so base clock difference is coming from something else.
 

lobz

Golden Member
Feb 10, 2017
1,621
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I would argue that most of that millions of office workers could "get by" with a paper, pencil and calculator.
I take it you have never worked in an office in your life, or if you did, it was a government office.
 

lobz

Golden Member
Feb 10, 2017
1,621
2,085
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I'm disappointed. For a tech forum there is a distinct lack of imagination and desire for pushing the boundaries of what is possible.

With AR, full self-driving, and various other technologies previously considered only science fiction on the cusp of becoming reality, a bean counter approach to chip development will relegate that vendor to obsolescence sooner than they realize. The pace of technological improvements will only accelerate, and anyone caught on the lagging edge will be washed away by the waves of change coming over the next decade.

But for the folks with little imagination: Because of advanced power management and the usefulness of Big.little cores, there will *commonly* be more than 8 cores on an upcoming consumer platform by 2022, but they will be split into performance and efficiency cores.

I will neither confirm nor deny that they might also outperform everything currently on the market. And no, I'm not talking about Alder Lake.
It could even be 15 times as fast as my current PC, if it's locked into having to use Mac OS. Not worth it. When they change the way they handle their user base, maybe.
 

Elfear

Diamond Member
May 30, 2004
7,033
551
126
I take it you have never worked in an office in your life, or if you did, it was a government office.
Are you kidding? Government office workers don't even need paper and pencil since they rarely do any work.

Frankly, that's probably for the best.
I think neither of you guys have worked in a govt office before. I've worked both sides of the fence and most of the govt employees I've worked with are hard workers. Most of the time it is impossible to get everything done in a 40-hr work week. And no, it's not because we use paper and pencils...

*Hmm, let's see. I just got a bunch of laptops for our office with a "Lakes" processor so kind of on topic? :p
 

Hulk

Platinum Member
Oct 9, 1999
2,974
413
126
I'm starting to wonder if one of the competitors to the 11700k is going to be the 10850k? RKL will have a definite single core advantage but it'll be much closer for multicore, perhaps with 10850k winning for some MT workloads. Pricing between the two may be very close as well.
 

cortexa99

Member
Jul 2, 2018
156
222
86
Looks messy, MSI just revise statement of the newest Z490-S01 bios.
before:
- Update ME 14.1
- Support Re-size BAR function to enhance GPU performance including the Nvidia GeForce RTX 3000 series and others.
- BIOS updated to be compatible with 11th Gen Intel Processors
- Improved compatibility of PCIe-based devices.
after:
- Update ME 14.1
- Support Re-size BAR function to enhance GPU performance including the Nvidia GeForce RTX 3000 series and others.
- Improved compatibility of PCIe-based devices.
Might be a confirmation of some low-end Z490 lost a chance to support Rocketlake, even some engineers being puzzled by this.

for people who don't know what's happening:
 

Dave2150

Senior member
Jan 20, 2015
635
174
116
Looks messy, MSI just revise statement of the newest Z490-S01 bios.
before:

after:


Might be a confirmation of some low-end Z490 lost a chance to support Rocketlake, even some engineers being puzzled by this.

for people who don't know what's happening:
I imagine most who planned to buy RKL will be coming from older platforms. Doubt there'll be many 10th gen users, on the cheapest z490 motherboards, who'll want to upgrade that soon.
 

dullard

Elite Member
May 21, 2001
22,711
984
126
I imagine most who planned to buy RKL will be coming from older platforms. Doubt there'll be many 10th gen users, on the cheapest z490 motherboards, who'll want to upgrade that soon.
There must be some niche that this matters to:
(A) They have so much money they they feel the need to upgrade to every one of the latest CPUs.
(B) They have so little money that selling their motherboard and buying a new one is a problem.
 

Hulk

Platinum Member
Oct 9, 1999
2,974
413
126
There must be some niche that this matters to:
(A) They have so much money they they feel the need to upgrade to every one of the latest CPUs.
(B) They have so little money that selling their motherboard and buying a new one is a problem.
(C) They had a project that required an immediate upgrade and went with Comet Lake with the intent to upgrade to Rocket.
 
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JoeRambo

Golden Member
Jun 13, 2013
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(C) They had a project that required an immediate upgrade and went with Comet Lake with the intent to upgrade to Rocket.
And when faced with 100% guaranteed loss of money implied in such upgrade, they have chosen to cheapen out and bought the most basic of Z490 motherboards there is out there. The guys who do such upgrades are enthusiasts and one can bet that they did their research properly.
Not only they will have Z490 that supports RKL, but most likely that mb will also properly support PCIE4 (again result of their research ) and have awesome power delivery components that were already required by 10th gen.
 
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