• Guest, The rules for the P & N subforum have been updated to prohibit "ad hominem" or personal attacks against other posters. See the full details in the post "Politics and News Rules & Guidelines."

Discussion Intel current and future Lakes & Rapids thread

Page 33 - Seeking answers? Join the AnandTech community: where nearly half-a-million members share solutions and discuss the latest tech.

Bouowmx

Golden Member
Nov 13, 2016
1,095
485
146
implying that a 8-core Coffee Lake does not exist or makes naming more convoluted: Core i7 + another suffix. Might be the revealed "B", but then there is no "BK".
 
  • Like
Reactions: Dayman1225

DrMrLordX

Lifer
Apr 27, 2000
16,887
5,845
136
We don't know when the 9xxx CPUs will be out, either. So who knows what they are at this point?

With 10nm being problematic and 10nm+ being MIA thus far, it's um hard to know for sure.
 

Cloudfire777

Golden Member
Mar 24, 2013
1,787
95
91
This is just absurd.

Its like watching Intel imploding with all these new products and refreshes when they finally got competition from AMD on the CPU side.

The worst about it all is that people are perfectly ok with being milked, just because its Intel.
 

jpiniero

Diamond Member
Oct 1, 2010
8,878
1,628
126
With mad speculation people seem to think 9000 series = Coffee lake refresh (which is fine since details are non existent) but @FanlessTech claim otherwise :
Given how badly the yields are it seems extremely unlikely at this point. I think FT is getting confused because there will be some Icelake released next year but I imagine only a quad core U/Y... and Intel might have to cut the EUs down.
 

CHADBOGA

Platinum Member
Mar 31, 2009
2,032
645
136
This is just absurd.

Its like watching Intel imploding with all these new products and refreshes when they finally got competition from AMD on the CPU side.

The worst about it all is that people are perfectly ok with being milked, just because its Intel.
Could you expand upon what you mean by "people being milked" and who is okay with it?
 

Cloudfire777

Golden Member
Mar 24, 2013
1,787
95
91
Could you expand upon what you mean by "people being milked" and who is okay with it?
Skylake
Caby Lake
Coffee Lake
Cannon Lake

All within 3 years....and the performance increase from Skylake to Cannon Lake will be pretty MEH all things considered.

Thats called milking and its sad to see very little calling Intel out.
 

Dayman1225

Golden Member
Aug 14, 2017
1,007
591
106
Given how badly the yields are it seems extremely unlikely at this point. I think FT is getting confused because there will be some Icelake released next year but I imagine only a quad core U/Y... and Intel might have to cut the EUs down.
Highly doubt they'e getting confused, willing to bet they know quite a bit more than you.
 

ViRGE

Elite Member, Moderator Emeritus
Oct 9, 1999
31,519
165
106
Skylake
Caby Lake
Coffee Lake
Cannon Lake

All within 3 years....and the performance increase from Skylake to Cannon Lake will be pretty MEH all things considered.

Thats called milking and its sad to see very little calling Intel out.
Can it really be called getting milked when no one is buying Coffee Lake to replace Skylake?
 

IndyColtsFan

Lifer
Sep 22, 2007
33,509
566
126
Skylake
Caby Lake
Coffee Lake
Cannon Lake

All within 3 years....and the performance increase from Skylake to Cannon Lake will be pretty MEH all things considered.

Thats called milking and its sad to see very little calling Intel out.
Milked? They still have the fastest CPUs available despite making relatively small increases in performance per generation over the past 7 years. They have made large gains in performance/watt as well.

Many have also called Intel out about the apparent performance stagnation we’ve seen over the last 7 years, but what do you expect? The facts are:

1) They are having issues with 10nm.
2) The PC market has been and continues to shrink.
3) They have had little competition until Ryzen.
4) Despite 1-3, they still have a clear performance lead.

You can make the argument that perhaps they should’ve moved 6 and 8 core CPUs into the mainstream before now and I’d probably agree, though they have had reasonably-priced 6 core options available for years. Remember the 5820k? Heck, you can get the 7820X for $444 right now at Frys.
 
Last edited:

Hayateazekura

Junior Member
Sep 25, 2017
17
14
41
Can it really be called getting milked when no one is buying Coffee Lake to replace Skylake?
No one is buying coffeelake? I am sorry but you are flat out biased for saying that. Even with limited stock the CPU is creeping in on top 5 cpus. The minute it goes on sale it sales out everywhere.
 
  • Like
Reactions: pcp7 and Dayman1225

Dayman1225

Golden Member
Aug 14, 2017
1,007
591
106
No one is buying coffeelake? I am sorry but you are flat out biased for saying that. Even with limited stock the CPU is creeping in on top 5 cpus. The minute it goes on sale it sales out everywhere.
To say it isn't selling is ridiculous...

According to a friend of mine who works at OCUK(A relatively big UK Tech retailer) the 8700k was selling 400 units a month excluding binned chips, same as the 7700k, 40 in 40 out kinda deal.

Of course you probably won't believe me because I am a random person on the internet, but still :)
 

USER8000

Golden Member
Jun 23, 2012
1,517
745
136
To say it isn't selling is ridiculous...

According to a friend of mine who works at OCUK(A relatively big UK Tech retailer) the 8700k was selling 400 units a month excluding binned chips, same as the 7700k, 40 in 40 out kinda deal.

Of course you probably won't believe me because I am a random person on the internet, but still :)
OcUK was one of the few retailers who actually had stock in the UK,so its not surprising.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Dayman1225

Cloudfire777

Golden Member
Mar 24, 2013
1,787
95
91
Can it really be called getting milked when no one is buying Coffee Lake to replace Skylake?
Well lets not rules out that there are quite a few enthusiasts out there that that replaced their 6700K to a 8600K. 200MHz boost was all they got and the reason was a higher TDP.

My point is that all these rapid launches ever since Skylake came out is what I considered milking. They used to do New architecture - New node shrink - New architecture etc etc. But they had their CPUs on 14nm ever since Broadwell in 2014. 2018 is when we finally get a new node, 10nm, something that used to happen every 2nd year in the past.

Intel have lost a lot of their momentum, and instead try to make up for it with refreshes but with higher clocks. Even their IPC gains over arch jumps are stupidly low. Thats what I call milking

Nvidia and AMD does the same with GPUs. Rebrands but with higher clocks. But atleast they usually have atleast some new products in the same release cycle that is a new architecture
 

IndyColtsFan

Lifer
Sep 22, 2007
33,509
566
126
Well lets not rules out that there are quite a few enthusiasts out there that that replaced their 6700K to a 8600K. 200MHz boost was all they got and the reason was a higher TDP.
They also got 2 more cores.

My point is that all these rapid launches ever since Skylake came out is what I considered milking. They used to do New architecture - New node shrink - New architecture etc etc. But they had their CPUs on 14nm ever since Broadwell in 2014. 2018 is when we finally get a new node, 10nm, something that used to happen every 2nd year in the past.
They’re having technical issues with 10 nm. Do you expect Intel to throw up its hands and release NOTHING and just keep selling the 6700k and other Skylake CPUs for 3 years?

Intel have lost a lot of their momentum, and instead try to make up for it with refreshes but with higher clocks. Even their IPC gains over arch jumps are stupidly low. Thats what I call milking

Nvidia and AMD does the same with GPUs. Rebrands but with higher clocks. But atleast they usually have atleast some new products in the same release cycle that is a new architecture
Intel knows the PC market is shrinking. Intel knows there are a lot of Sandy and Ivy holdouts. Believe me, they want those users upgrading. At this stage, adding performance isn’t super easy - all the low-hanging fruit has been picked.
 
  • Like
Reactions: pcp7

IndyColtsFan

Lifer
Sep 22, 2007
33,509
566
126
No one is buying coffeelake? I am sorry but you are flat out biased for saying that. Even with limited stock the CPU is creeping in on top 5 cpus. The minute it goes on sale it sales out everywhere.
You guys need to carefully reread Virge’s post. He is NOT saying Coffee Lake isn’t selling. He is saying that Skylake users aren’t buying them. I don’t know how true that particular point is, but obviously Coffee Lake is selling very well since they’re still relatively hard to get. I was lucky to get my 8700k about 3 weeks ago.
 
  • Like
Reactions: ViRGE

Cloudfire777

Golden Member
Mar 24, 2013
1,787
95
91
They also got 2 more cores.



They’re having technical issues with 10 nm. Do you expect Intel to throw up its hands and release NOTHING and just keep selling the 6700k and other Skylake CPUs for 3 years?



Intel knows the PC market is shrinking. Intel knows there are a lot of Sandy and Ivy holdouts. Believe me, they want those users upgrading. At this stage, adding performance isn’t super easy - all the low-hanging fruit has been picked.
Intel introduced more cores for the mid-high range only because AMD forced them to. But anyhow, doesnt matter if «10nm is difficult for Intel». The point here is that the further down the rabbit hole they go the more difficult node shrinks will become for them.
What then? New products with slight clock changes every 6 months just to get enough revenue to keep the train rolling? The writing is already on the wall: They are pushing out products so often now because they know layoffs will come now that AMD is eating up their huge market share, and most importantly, Intel need to inject a TON OF MONEY to spend on R&D on their foundry that manufacture their CPUs, AMD had a disadvantage with relying on GlobalFoundries in the past, but what happens when Intels revenue tanks and new process and nodes becomes a bigger challenge than in the past?

Lets just say that Intels top position in the market will get tougher to defend in the future if AMD plays their cards right
 

PeterScott

Platinum Member
Jul 7, 2017
2,605
1,540
106
You guys need to carefully reread Virge’s post. He is NOT saying Coffee Lake isn’t selling. He is saying that Skylake users aren’t buying them. I don’t know how true that particular point is, but obviously Coffee Lake is selling very well since they’re still relatively hard to get. I was lucky to get my 8700k about 3 weeks ago.
Demand is so high that Intel is ramping up production at a second location in China.

The noise about Intels crumbling is ridiculously premature.
 
  • Like
Reactions: pcp7

Cloudfire777

Golden Member
Mar 24, 2013
1,787
95
91
Demand is so high that Intel is ramping up production at a second location in China.

The noise about Intels crumbling is ridiculously premature.
I think you are misreading that news.

Coffee Lake availability have been poor for a long time now, and if you think its because the demand for Coffee Lake is bigger now that Ryzen is here to compete vs almost no competition from AMD earlier, you need to rethink.

Intel is struggling with production, not demand.
 
  • Like
Reactions: pcp7

Cloudfire777

Golden Member
Mar 24, 2013
1,787
95
91
Intel's not struggling with anything 14 nm. The early Coffee Lake was just a paper launch... but they need the second production line to handle the full lineup.
Still no evidence that the demand for their products is bigger than before.
 

Cloudfire777

Golden Member
Mar 24, 2013
1,787
95
91
I think it is a bit odd that they didn't bring more production online earlier.
Intel premature launching products way ahead of schedule because they feel threatened by AMD :sweat:
The thing here is that Intel have everything to lose while AMD have everything to gain
 

IndyColtsFan

Lifer
Sep 22, 2007
33,509
566
126
Intel introduced more cores for the mid-high range only because AMD forced them to. But anyhow, doesnt matter if «10nm is difficult for Intel». The point here is that the further down the rabbit hole they go the more difficult node shrinks will become for them.
What then? New products with slight clock changes every 6 months just to get enough revenue to keep the train rolling? The writing is already on the wall: They are pushing out products so often now because they know layoffs will come now that AMD is eating up their huge market share, and most importantly, Intel need to inject a TON OF MONEY to spend on R&D on their foundry that manufacture their CPUs, AMD had a disadvantage with relying on GlobalFoundries in the past, but what happens when Intels revenue tanks and new process and nodes becomes a bigger challenge than in the past?

Lets just say that Intels top position in the market will get tougher to defend in the future if AMD plays their cards right
AMD couldn’t gain and hold a foothold against Intel when they had a substantial performance lead. And while you’re complaining about Intel just releasing clock speed increases or being “forced by AMD” to up the core count (not true*, by the way), Intel still has the performance lead, is still setting quarterly records, and is still in control of the PC market. Ryzen has been on the market for nearly a year and while it is a fine platform (I own 2), Intel is still raking in cash hand over fist.

*Intel had 8 core Cannonlake on the roadmaps years ago, before anything was known about Ryzen. Had 10 nm worked out, we’d have that and not CFL right now.
 
  • Like
Reactions: pcp7

VirtualLarry

No Lifer
Aug 25, 2001
50,487
6,063
126
Intel knows the PC market is shrinking.
Just a real-world comment on HOW MUCH the PC market is shrinking, especially at the lower-end - Walmart had a $499.99 Gaming PC from HP in their Black Friday ad. i5-7400, 8GB RAM, 1TB HDD, and a GTX 1060 3GB card. Including Windows 10, I would be hard-pressed to build a custom rig up to that caliber, and be able to deliver it to a customer for $500. (I couldn't, not without going used on parts.)

And yet, at past 6PM on Friday, Walmart's web site was finally showing in-store stock, and nearly every local WM around here still had them in stock. (Remember, BF started Thurs at 6PM. So, 24hours later, and they still had stock of these desktop PCs.)

To say desktop PCs aren't really selling anymore (even budget gaming rigs!) is probably an understatement of the year.

Yes, there is still sales at the "enthusiast level", but these lower/mid-range PCs, and OEM PCs in general, aren't selling much to consumers anymore.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Drazick

ASK THE COMMUNITY