Discussion Intel current and future Lakes & Rapids thread

[lobz]

anyone want to guess what will replace cascade lake x next year? Cooper lake X? Ice lake X?

I have no idea why I am seeing your post after ignoring you on your profile, but at least this was funny. I bet you heard it from your Asian friends.
Ice Lake X
in 2020 DDD

 

[liahos1]

I have no idea why I am seeing your post after ignoring you on your profile, but at least this was funny. I bet you heard it from your Asian friends.
Ice Lake X
in 2020 DDD

can you tell me how i can block you?

 

[lobz]

can you tell me how i can block you?

We have the same problem. Hover your mouse over my name under the red icon with the 'L' and a small pop-up comes up and there is the ignore button at the bottom. I did that days ago sicne you tried to guess where I live, who I live with, what do I drink and eat, how many friends I have etc. for the lack of better arguments in a discussion. Very impressive btw, you guessed nothing right. Sadly I still see your rage here though, but I'll try the ignore one more time.

 

[lobz]

Oh my God it works! I see you posted something and it says: You are ignoring content by this member. Perfect. I hope it works for you too and we don't poison the forum any further with this.

 

[liahos1]

thank you! that is literally the most value add you've added in this thread.

 

[UsandThem]

Oh my God it works! I see you posted something and it says: You are ignoring content by this member. Perfect. I hope it works for you too and we don't poison the forum any further with this.

thank you! that is literally the most value add you've added in this thread.

Are you two finished with derailing this thread?
If it does not stop right now, there will be infractions
given.

Stop quoting and arguing with each other. You
two apparently have each other on ignore, so
let it take affect immediately.

AT Mod Usandthem

 

[liahos1]

thank you for finally stepping in. I've been complaining about thread derailment and harassment for the past two days.

Don't address moderator actions in the thread.
If you want to express your feeling on it,
create a thread in moderator discussions.

AT Mod Usandthem

On another note:

Intel Reportedly Developing Breakthrough Project Athena Thermal Module For Laptops

A new cooling solution being designed by Intel could lead to even thinner laptops.

hothardware.com

"According to DigiTimes, the new thermal design is part of Intel's Project Athena. It's said to combine vapor chambers with graphite sheets to more efficiently whisk away heat. The site says thermal compounds are usually in the compartment between the keyboard and bottom shell, but with Intel's design, this would be replaced by a vapor chamber, which would be attached to a graphite sheet placed behind the screen. "

Do any other laptops other than the surface pro utilize vapor chamber. Maybe this will allow for longer boost clocks without throttling. Combined with better clocks from tigerlake - this should result in better sustained performance?

 

[liahos1]

I don't think there is a replacement next year. Another Skylake based refresh would be pointless.

But don't they update on an annual cadence. Hard to see them stop that? Could get an updated platform plus cooperlake x - same socket for icelake x in 2021?

 

[jpiniero]

But don't they update on an annual cadence. Hard to see them stop that? Could get an updated platform plus cooperlake x - same socket for icelake x in 2021?

There isn't much point, AMD's pretty much killed Intel's HEDT. I could see Xeon W being refreshed with Cooper (Cedar Island) if it still exists and there was OEM interest for some reason instead of Threadripper. Cooper (Whitley) would draw too much to think it could be used as a Workstation.

 

[DrMrLordX]

Do any other laptops other than the surface pro utilize vapor chamber.

Yes:

Gamers now turning to Vapor Chambers for High Performance Thermal Management

Laptops conventionally use 3-4 heat pipes to move heat – the new 2018 Razer Blade states that the use of the vapor chamber design covers more area and aids in the thinner design. So, is a vapor chamber a good alternate solution to heat pipes in a laptop? Advanced Cooling Technologies digs deeper.

blog.1-act.com

Vapor chambers are expensive, so they are only going to be used in boutique products. My phone has a vapor chamber in it, if you can believe it.

But don't they update on an annual cadence. Hard to see them stop that? Could get an updated platform plus cooperlake x - same socket for icelake x in 2021?

There does not appear to be a Cooper Lake-X or IceLake-X anywhere on the horizon. Smart money's on Intel killing the HEDT lineup until 2022 or so.

 

[Carfax83]

What's the chances of Intel releasing a desktop Willow Cove part on 10++nm or 10+++nm in 2020?

It seems Intel is finally making progress on their 10nm ramp up. I would spend the cash to upgrade to Willow Cove for sure if it became available next year, although my 6900k at 4.3ghz is still a beast!

 

[jpiniero]

What's the chances of Intel releasing a desktop Willow Cove part on 10++nm or 10+++nm in 2020?

Zero, although if you are lucky you might get Willow Cove on 14 nm as part of Rocket Lake sometime in 2021.

 

[IntelUser2000]

However, Apple is extraordinarily slow at updating hardware in their products sometimes, so who knows?

Their battery life and performance is top notch, so it takes them time to get it out. Also Apple likes new products to show big gains. They didn't use Arrandale because they didn't think the iGPU was good enough - they waited for Sandy Bridge.

User reviews of laptops often point out immature driver and BIOS. In the process of trying to get first in getting out the hardware, not all the kinks are ironed out.

Watch Lakefield systems. It'll come out later for the similar reason, because when you are talking saving milliwatts, hardware and software customization required takes time.

 

[DrMrLordX]

What's the chances of Intel releasing a desktop Willow Cove part on 10++nm or 10+++nm in 2020?

Unfortunately, Intel seems to have killed any hope for a desktop TigerLake product. Instead you're looking at maybe Alder Lake-S in 2021 with Golden Cove on 10nm++ (or something). Or, as jpiniero articulated. RocketLake-S in 2021 on 14nm.

 

[NostaSeronx]

What's the chances of Intel releasing a desktop Willow Cove part on 10++nm or 10+++nm in 2020?

Tigerlake-S will be on the same platform as Comet Lake-S. TGL-S and TGL-H utilize the same die and will both be on 10nm++ using the standard Willowcove core.

The three WLC cores
Willowcove-X(10nm+++) => Server, High IPC
Willowcove-S => Consumer, Mid IPC
Willowcove-M => Mobility, High Frequency/Mid IPC? (compared to TremontX/Tremont) // Faster than A13X(supposedly, it killed it)

Goldencove-X will be an architectural refresh of Willowcove-X(Goldmont+ from Goldmont/Sunnycove from Skylake). <== 7nm (WLCx = Super(10nm+++), GDCx = Super+(7nm))
Goldencove-S&-M will be a new core. <== 10nm+++

 

[uzzi38]

What's the chances of Intel releasing a desktop Willow Cove part on 10++nm or 10+++nm in 2020?

It seems Intel is finally making progress on their 10nm ramp up. I would spend the cash to upgrade to Willow Cove for sure if it became available next year, although my 6900k at 4.3ghz is still a beast!

Non-zero, but pretty darn close. TGL-S is back on the table now, but timeframe is the issue. There's a small possibility it's very late 2020, but only a small one. I'd say 2021 is more likely.

 

[jpiniero]

Non-zero, but pretty darn close. TGL-S is back on the table now, but timeframe is the issue. There's a small possibility it's very late 2020, but only a small one. I'd say 2021 is more likely.

Rocket is definitely what comes next after Comet and would likely be a year after Comet Lake-S launches. The question is whether it's really Willow Cove or is it still Skylake.

 

[lobz]

Non-zero, but pretty darn close. TGL-S is back on the table now, but timeframe is the issue. There's a small possibility it's very late 2020, but only a small one. I'd say 2021 is more likely.

So you say, there is a small possibility that after they launch Comet Lake in Q1, they will launch TGL-S late 2020, and then after that they launch Rocket Lake?

I'd say there's a small possibility for Tesla launching the first time machine very late 2020 too.

 

[uzzi38]

So you say, there is a small possibility that after they launch Comet Lake in Q1, they will launch TGL-S late 2020, and then after that they launch Rocket Lake?

I'd say there's a small possibility for Tesla launching the first time machine very late 2020 too.

Sort of, though TGL-S and RKL-S would make up the full desktop lineup.

I don't think it's even remotely likely, just not ruling out the possibility.

 

[uzzi38]

Rocket is definitely what comes next after Comet and would likely be a year after Comet Lake-S launches. The question is whether it's really Willow Cove or is it still Skylake.

I've said this from the beginning, Willow Cove Rocket Lake would be the laughing stock of the decade. You don't backport from a node 2.7x as dense without throwing efficiency out the window, and with it, clocks.

Rocket Lake is almost certainly a different core. Probably won't be regular old Skylake. But Willow? Hell no, not a chance.

 

[lobz]

Sort of, though TGL-S and RKL-S would make up the full desktop lineup.

I don't think it's even remotely likely, just not ruling out the possibility.

Ah, OK. I can be persuaded with sensible arguments

 

[lobz]

You don't backport from a node 2.7x as dense without throwing efficiency out the window, and with it, clocks.

Not to mention the burning question: how is that supposed to help with the manufacturing constraints? I don't think 10nm would be THAT big of a chunk of the production, otherwise Rocket Lake wouldn't even exist in the first place.

 

[jpiniero]

I've said this from the beginning, Willow Cove Rocket Lake would be the laughing stock of the decade. You don't backport from a node 2.7x as dense without throwing efficiency out the window, and with it, clocks.

By going to chiplets they should be able to bin very tightly, plus it's 8 cores max. The K is still going to draw a ton I imagine. The Non-K will have a drop in frequency. Since they are going to LGA 1200, I imagine they are going to make it feasible for the chips to draw 200 or more.

I am more interested in seeing how it's going to work in mobile actually.

 

[uzzi38]

By going to chiplets they should be able to bin very tightly, plus it's 8 cores max. The K is still going to draw a ton I imagine. The Non-K will have a drop in frequency. Since they are going to LGA 1200, I imagine they are going to make it feasible for the chips to draw 200 or more.

I am more interested in seeing how it's going to work in mobile actually.

They won't be doing proper chiplets, and you're severely underestimating the power draw.

Backporting WC would neuter clocks. Even beating the 6700K in clocks at stock would be an impressive feat.

 

[jpiniero]

They won't be doing proper chiplets, and you're severely underestimating the power draw.

I don't think they would bother if it was that bad. Remember I am talking about 200 W.