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Intel Chips With “Vega Inside” Coming Soon?

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Timorous

Senior member
Oct 27, 2008
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You should know that Intel recently slashed the funding for the Intel Inside program.
It is not just about rebates though.

Do you think OEMs would risk selling a high end Ryzen APU with this GPU attached? Most of their buyers go Intel + Nvidia in this segment so how many wins do you think AMD would get if they even offered such a design?

I don't really see any downsides for AMD. They get to increase mind share with the Radeon branding, they will get more sales in a segment that they have struggled in, they make it more difficult for Nvidia, they get their foot in the door with OEMs which might lead to an all AMD APU being more likely to actually get design wins. Maybe the low end KL G will compete with the high end Ryzen APU but they are different power envelopes and will probably be in different form factor laptops so I am not so sure I see that much overlap.

The bottom line here though is that AMD will get more sales than they would have without the deal which can only really benefit them.
 

Charlie22911

Senior member
Mar 19, 2005
609
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I’m my experience of folks asking for PC purchase advise, the majority don’t know what’s inside; intel or AMD doesn’t matter to them. They just want X PC to do Y task and they want a HP, Dell, Apple for the task.
It’s like cars, most folks think it’s made by the manufacturer. They don’t know that companies like Bosch, Brembo, Hella, etc make a lot of the components.
 

PeterScott

Platinum Member
Jul 7, 2017
2,605
1,540
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It is not just about rebates though.

Do you think OEMs would risk selling a high end Ryzen APU with this GPU attached? Most of their buyers go Intel + Nvidia in this segment so how many wins do you think AMD would get if they even offered such a design?

I don't really see any downsides for AMD. They get to increase mind share with the Radeon branding, they will get more sales in a segment that they have struggled in, they make it more difficult for Nvidia, they get their foot in the door with OEMs which might lead to an all AMD APU being more likely to actually get design wins. Maybe the low end KL G will compete with the high end Ryzen APU but they are different power envelopes and will probably be in different form factor laptops so I am not so sure I see that much overlap.

The bottom line here though is that AMD will get more sales than they would have without the deal which can only really benefit them.
I see it as a win for AMD as well.

I am still now sure what Intel gets out of it.
 

raghu78

Diamond Member
Aug 23, 2012
4,093
1,474
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I see it as a win for AMD as well.

I am still now sure what Intel gets out of it.
Intel is probably building this for Apple and their main goal here is to reduce Nvidia's dominance. Nvidia is using Geforce revenue to fund their HPC efforts. So anything which can affect Nvidia's GPU business is good for Intel. AMD is not a threat in DL/ML/AI atleast(though in x86 server CPUs they are)where Nvidia is the No.1 dominant provider of GPUs and seeing explosive growth.
 

PeterScott

Platinum Member
Jul 7, 2017
2,605
1,540
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Intel is probably building this for Apple and their main goal here is to reduce Nvidia's dominance. Nvidia is using Geforce revenue to fund their HPC efforts. So anything which can affect Nvidia's GPU business is good for Intel. AMD is not a threat in DL/ML/AI atleast(though in x86 server CPUs they are)where Nvidia is the No.1 dominant provider of GPUs and seeing explosive growth.
Apple is 100% Intel CPU, and 100% AMD GPU, this changes nothing. NVidia isn't in that picture.

Especially since Apple can just hook up any Intel CPU to a Vega Mobile and have effectively the same thing with more flexability.




Really, tacking on the Intel CPU to Vega Mobile does almost nothing. All the befit is from the HBM and Vega Mobile.

As a buyer I would rather use Vega Mobile, as you can then pair it with Any CPU. So you could build a SFF system with a 6 core CPU and Vega Mobile.
 

ZipSpeed

Golden Member
Aug 13, 2007
1,299
160
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I’m my experience of folks asking for PC purchase advise, the majority don’t know what’s inside; intel or AMD doesn’t matter to them. They just want X PC to do Y task and they want a HP, Dell, Apple for the task.
It’s like cars, most folks think it’s made by the manufacturer. They don’t know that companies like Bosch, Brembo, Hella, etc make a lot of the components.
This. My sister recently bought a laptop during the holiday season, and the first thing she asked me was "is it fast?". She doesn't know what an Intel, AMD, or Nvidia is, and will never care as long as it turns on.
 
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ksec

Senior member
Mar 5, 2010
420
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I am going to assume the Dynamic Tuning really allows extra 10% efficiency ( No idea how this and EMIB all relate to each other), and the HBM saves a little more Watts/Hr compared to GDDR5.

All these efficiency improvement are then cancelled out with only supporting DDR4 and not LPDDR3.

In turns this allow the Macbook Pro to support up to 64GB of Memory.

The pricing is interesting, while the Intel NUC is expensive, the Dell and HP machine are not.

Another point to worth think about is AMD already confirmed the 7nm Vega. And Intel 10nm CPU is shipping. By this time next year we may see Whatever Lake -G that doubles in performance.
 

PeterScott

Platinum Member
Jul 7, 2017
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Another point to worth think about is AMD already confirmed the 7nm Vega. And Intel 10nm CPU is shipping. By this time next year we may see Whatever Lake -G that doubles in performance.
Not a realistic scenario. Generational process jumps give about 30% performance boost in recent times.
 
Mar 11, 2004
20,846
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That board looks loaded for a NUC. Maybe a new Mac Mini or going in the standard iMac?

I see it as a win for AMD as well.

I am still now sure what Intel gets out of it.
Intel gets a head start on this type of packaging, and stays in good graces of Apple. Also lets them start to maneuver in to AMD's semi-custom field, where they can work with customers to slot other chips (don't have to be Intel ones, but Intel is definitely moving towards offering that too). Intel will obviously be looking at slotting their own dedicated GPU design in there when it becomes available, but that could be years, so in the interim, they start to develop the platform.

Apple is 100% Intel CPU, and 100% AMD GPU, this changes nothing. NVidia isn't in that picture.

Especially since Apple can just hook up any Intel CPU to a Vega Mobile and have effectively the same thing with more flexability.

removed image


Really, tacking on the Intel CPU to Vega Mobile does almost nothing. All the befit is from the HBM and Vega Mobile.

As a buyer I would rather use Vega Mobile, as you can then pair it with Any CPU. So you could build a SFF system with a 6 core CPU and Vega Mobile.
I agree, but I also think that's part of it. Intel views working with AMD as helping to keep NVidia out. Plus, it helps them stay in good with Apple, which could mean Apple sticking with Intel CPUs and not trying to go AMD there. I think Intel's next move for that is integrating their modem.

That's true, except in products that are extremely constrained (Mac Mini, lower end iMacs, maybe Macbook non-pro where they can boost the GPU without increasing the packaging excessively). Granted, I think that's not a good proposition, as I think using a dGPU spaced away from the CPU would help with thermals (and offer more performance), and aside from laptops they're not that constrained, but then Apple is probably banking on progress bringing more performance in that packaging later.

Right, but you're just thinking short term. This is clearly the start of an overall change to what packaging Intel is going to offer. Its low risk because they don't really care if the product fails or succeeds as its more about development of the EMIB.

I agree, but Apple is focused on svelte packaging and design, and they likely assume that future chips will offer more in that packaging.

This. My sister recently bought a laptop during the holiday season, and the first thing she asked me was "is it fast?". She doesn't know what an Intel, AMD, or Nvidia is, and will never care as long as it turns on.
I'd say its about evenly split. I know plenty that are that way (they're the ones that are like I want a new computer, can you help me find one, and then they tell you they want certain features and don't ask about brands or anything; I like those as you can get them the best system for their money/value and they're happy unless there's some clear issue like its defective). But then I know people that are aware, but only know Intel and possibly Nvidia (although I know someone that loves Lenovo but thinks Dell and HP are garbage, trying to convince them that all companies make some good products and some bad ones is a lesson in pointless frustration).
 

ksec

Senior member
Mar 5, 2010
420
116
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Intel released a photo of the Kaby Lake G NUC PCB, with an Apple Keyboard beside it, a sign of things to come?

You are able to preorder the NUC here
Where did you get that photo ?

Dear God, please dont tell me they are releasing a new redesign super thin iMac base on that........
 

HurleyBird

Platinum Member
Apr 22, 2003
2,269
700
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iMacs have ports on the back of enclosure, not on the bottom or top, so chances are that isn't what this board is destined for.
 

jpiniero

Diamond Member
Oct 1, 2010
8,845
1,615
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There may very well be a Mini with Kaby-G coming but that board isn't it. It's Apple, there would be a lot less ports.
 

coercitiv

Diamond Member
Jan 24, 2014
4,157
5,048
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I know it is the board Hades Canyon, I was referring to hint of Intel posting a Kaby-G along with an Apple Desktop product.
Then why take the hint literally? Just because they decide to hint towards using KBL-G in Apple products doesn't mean that particular board is going inside a new Mac.
 

StinkyPinky

Diamond Member
Jul 6, 2002
6,538
456
126
I think perhaps Intel is trying to discretely say that they have something for a new mac mini, not that it will be precisely that board. Clearly the apple keyboard is there for a reason. It didn't just randomly fall into photoshop.

Also the mac mini is a desktop device so it will have more ports. It should have similar port selection to an imac.
 
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IntelUser2000

Elite Member
Oct 14, 2003
7,250
1,839
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So, Intel has LGA Xeons coming, named Xeon E or Entry that has the -G naming. So it uses Radeon graphics like Kabylake-G.

Not only that, its 6 cores, meaning Coffeelake.
 

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