Intel Chips With “Vega Inside” Coming Soon?

[PeterScott]

Yep, and it will have rubbish cooling. It was not able to cool Iris Pro's from Haswell Gen, and they throttled as hell.

Not to mention the insanely high prices. I expect this will be $200-$300 more than a Skull Canyon NUC was on Intro.

 

[ksec]

Upon reading the slide, I think it is clear this isn't really an Apple requested product at all.

Not only is this a EMIB showcase, but also about Intel Vs Nvidia. This Kaby-Lake G is striking Nvidia where it hurts most, Gaming Market, Especially Notebook Gaming market which is the segment that is growing and slowing the PC shipment decline.

Why? The Gaming Market profits are being used to fund HPC and AI R&D, market which Intel is desperately trying to win.

It will be interesting to see how Intel price this, and how AMD will price their upcoming APU.

 

[Ajay]

I don't see how this product makes sense for AMD, unless their APU has even better performance. Unless, MCM (for the HBM) just can't match EMIB right now.

 

[Olikan]

There was a leak some time ago of a "server apu" with 28CU Vega...

Maybe 4 CU where disabled for yelds?

 

[PeterScott]

I don't see how this product makes sense for AMD, unless their APU has even better performance. Unless, MCM (for the HBM) just can't match EMIB right now.

Maybe AMD wanted to use EMIB instead of SI packaging, but there was nothing in it for Intel, so perhaps this is throwing Intel a PR bone, in return for a AMD only EMIB design to follow.

 

[Bouowmx]

NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1060 laptops start at ~1000 USD; should be the target price point of Intel Core i7-8709G.

AMD may have played themselves if Intel Core i5-8305G is priced low enough, and AMD Raven Ridge is in one handful of laptops that start around 750 USD.

 

[Charlie22911]

Linus just uploaded a video on the new Hades Canyon NUCs with this part, one of which is 100w TDP.

Wow.

https://youtu.be/rOTKgvPUXN8

Edit:
Uses a vapor chamber cooler
~$799 for 65w
~$999 for 100w unlocked

 

[IntelUser2000]

The 7700HQ comparison laptop uses single channel memory. Notebookcheck 7700HQ + GTX 1060 Max-Q uses dual channel memory.

That explains why notebookcheck results are higher. The Vega M GH is however, within 5% of the GTX 1060 Max-Q.

With 75WHr battery they are claiming it'll reach 8 hours battery life with a 4K panel. Which is pretty nice.

They are saying the HBM2 memory uses 1.3W while equivalent GDDR5 comparison would use 10.9W.

 

[beginner99]

NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1060 laptops start at ~1000 USD; should be the target price point of Intel Core i7-8709G.

AMD may have played themselves if Intel Core i5-8305G is priced low enough, and AMD Raven Ridge is in one handful of laptops that start around 750 USD.

price is one thing but also size and weight. RR are 15-25w parts or something like that while kaby-g is 65-100w. They are playing in a completely different league. Just look at the new NUC meaning it's size (pretty big for a NUC) due to the required cooling. bigger, heavier laptops always offer better performance/$ but usually are only semi-mobile and their battery life sucks.

 

[PeterScott]

price is one thing but also size and weight. RR are 15-25w parts or something like that while kaby-g is 65-100w. They are playing in a completely different league. Just look at the new NUC meaning it's size (pretty big for a NUC) due to the required cooling. bigger, heavier laptops always offer better performance/$ but usually are only semi-mobile and their battery life sucks.

Pricing will be in a different league as well. Intel Naked CPU will probably still cost more than Raven Ridge. Add Radeon chip and HBM memory, then bigger battery, power supply and beefed up cooling. These will be at minimum $200 more than a Raven Ridge laptop. I expect if bigger delta than that.

 

[TheELF]

AMD may have played themselves if Intel Core i5-8305G is priced low enough, and AMD Raven Ridge is in one handful of laptops that start around 750 USD.

The more radeons AMD sells the more radeons AMD sells...
It's a no brainer for AMD it can only mean more sales for them.
RR would be a low volume sale anyway no matter how good it is.

 

[LTC8K6]

Because the patch doesn't have that much of a performance hit for consumer workloads.

That's probably true, but why not just wait, unless you have a really old system. New Intel chips will be here this year, most likely.

Why risk buying a vulnerable chip now?

Unless I had a really old system that needed to be replaced very soon, I would await developments.

I would not invest in any vulnerable chips.

 

[IntelUser2000]

HP Spectre X360 15 now has an option for Core i7 with Radeon Vega M GL. The laptop starts at $1369.99, however that's with the Geforce MX 150 and Core i7 8550U. The $1449.99 version is the starting price for Kabylake-G. $80 premium that gets you 2x graphics and essentially full power Core H chip is quite nice.

13.5 hours of battery for MX150 version, 12 hours for KBL-G. 17mm thickness.

Dell is also going to release a Kabylake-G laptop. XPS 15, and uses the 65W GL part with cTDPdown at 45W.

https://www.notebookcheck.net/The-HP-Spectre-x360-15-2018-is-here-with-both-Kaby-Lake-R-and-Kaby-Lake-G-SKUs.269626.0.html

 

[csbin]

Radeon ReLive
Radeon WattMan
Radeon Chill
Radeon FreeSync

https://www.pcper.com/image/view/88557?return=node/69007

 

[Yakk]

Linus just uploaded a video on the new Hades Canyon NUCs with this part, one of which is 100w TDP.

Wow.

https://youtu.be/rOTKgvPUXN8

Edit:
Uses a vapor chamber cooler
~$799 for 65w
~$999 for 100w unlocked

Nice little machine. It's what the Mac Mini should be also, instead of an old derelict thingy. The price tag would seem to fit.

 

[PeterScott]

Nice little machine. It's what the Mac Mini should be also, instead of an old derelict thingy. The price tag would seem to fit.

The NUC starts at $800 for the low power, 20 CU version, and that doesn't include any RAM, Storage or OS.

So $1000 is about the minimum entry price for the slow version of a functional PC, for the Windows PC version.

That would put the Mac Mini version at $1200+.

Price tag doesn't really fit the Mini profile.

 

[Dayman1225]

Interesting thing I noticed on Intel's Press Release for these chips, they will be going into a gaming cloud solution:

In addition to the Intel NUC and new Dell and HP devices, this new 8th Gen Intel Core processor will enable a gaming cloud solution brought on by Artesyn and Gamestream

 

[PeterScott]

Maybe AMD wanted to use EMIB instead of SI packaging, but there was nothing in it for Intel, so perhaps this is throwing Intel a PR bone, in return for a AMD only EMIB design to follow.

And to follow means today.

It is really looking like my theory is holding up. I suspect Vega Mobile is using EMIB. It is touting 1.7mm Z-Height, the same as Intel is for Kaby-G. Lower Z-Height is supposed to be an advantage of EMIB over SI.

Vega M and Kaby G look like the same product without and with the Intel CPU tacked on. AMD wanted Vega M on EMIB and Intel said, whats in it for us.

https://wccftech.com/amd-new-vega-discrete-gpu-for-mobility-with-hbm2-memory/

 

[Dayman1225]

And to follow means today.

It is really looking like my theory is holding up. I suspect Vega Mobile is using EMIB. It is touting 1.7mm Z-Height, the same as Intel is for Kaby-G. Lower Z-Height is supposed to be an advantage of EMIB over SI.

Vega M and Kaby G look like the same product without and with the Intel CPU tacked on. AMD wanted Vega M on EMIB and Intel said, whats in it for us.

https://wccftech.com/amd-new-vega-discrete-gpu-for-mobility-with-hbm2-memory/

Ian Cutress has confirmed that it is indeed an Interposer and not EMIB

It is an interposer. We were told it is an interposer. It's an iterative design where they can embed it better in the substrate to get z-height benefits. We were told this at AMD Tech Day.

It my interview with Lisa, she said they were able to embed the interposer further into the substrate than before. This is ultimately an interesting story, I wished they talked about it more

 

[PeterScott]

There goes that theory.

I still think the Intel product looks like an oddly tacked on solution.

Pretty much all the benefit comes from the GPU/HBM combo, which AMD is selling that can pair up with any CPU using PCIe, which is all the Intel solution uses anyway.

Now that I look closer, the AMD dGPU looks bigger than the one Intel is using.

Smooth and Sneaky AMD.

Ryzen Mobile plus bigger Vega M, should put AMD designs out front of the Intel one.

 

[Dayman1225]

Dell has refresed the XPS 15 2 in 1 laptop with a Kaby Lake G SKU

https://www.anandtech.com/show/12252/dell-at-ces-2018-updates-xps-15-2in1-intel-kaby-lakeg-cpu-with-radeon-rx-vega-m-graphics?

 

[LTC8K6]

179gb/s for HBM2?

https://ark.intel.com/products/130411/Intel-Core-i7-8705G-Processor-with-Radeon-RX-Vega-M-GL-graphics-8M-Cache-up-to-4_10-GHz

 

[Dayman1225]

179gb/s for HBM2?

https://ark.intel.com/products/130411/Intel-Core-i7-8705G-Processor-with-Radeon-RX-Vega-M-GL-graphics-8M-Cache-up-to-4_10-GHz

Downclocked for Segmentation/Power I assume. Even the highest model only has 202gb/s (could be fore HBM2 yield?) ~ Though both are plenty for 20/24CU designs.

 

[IntelUser2000]

179gb/s for HBM2?

https://ark.intel.com/products/130411/Intel-Core-i7-8705G-Processor-with-Radeon-RX-Vega-M-GL-graphics-8M-Cache-up-to-4_10-GHz

A single stack is capable of 256GB/s for the maximum 2GHz clocked one. However, due to yield issues none reach that.

The highest clock is reached by Vega 64 at 1.9GHz. It's a super pricey part so they can afford it.

The Vega M GH uses a 1.6GHz one and GL uses 1.4GHz. The Titan V runs it at 1.7GHz and datacenter oriented GV100 runs it at 1.75GHz.

 

[sirmo]

I don't see how this product makes sense for AMD, unless their APU has even better performance. Unless, MCM (for the HBM) just can't match EMIB right now.

You underestimate the hold Intel has on OEMs with its rebates and other programs. This lets AMD sell its GPUs where it couldn't otherwise sell them. And at the same time given Intel's influence over OEMs it locks Nvidia out of these premium laptops going forward.

It's a win win for AMD. They get to increase their marketshare of GPUs vs. Nvidia and they get paid for the effort.

Sure it competes with AMD's own APU efforts in this segment, but AMD has zero marketshare there currently, and it would take a long time to ramp up. It also would not be easy against Intel and Nvidia. AMD can concentrate on other markets they are ramping up. In my opinion this is a really shewed move by AMD.