Indictments coming...

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Commodus

Commodus

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 2004
9,215
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interchange said:
If all the pressure is being leveraged against Manafort, this may indicate his importance in connecting Trump to the conspiracy.
Click to expand...

Maybe -- there's also the possibility that Mueller and crew want to be absolutely sure the charges stick, and that pardoning him would mean pardoning a lot. Manafort is the kind of person who would gladly pay for the most expensive lawyers on the planet if it meant keeping his luxury lifestyle, and his team will probably use every trick in the book.
 
vi edit

vi edit

Elite Member
Super Moderator
Oct 28, 1999
62,484
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Commodus said:
Maybe -- there's also the possibility that Mueller and crew want to be absolutely sure the charges stick, and that pardoning him would mean pardoning a lot. Manafort is the kind of person who would gladly pay for the most expensive lawyers on the planet if it meant keeping his luxury lifestyle, and his team will probably use every trick in the book.
Click to expand...

By most accounts that luxury lifestyle was an ultra-leveraged one and he was in quite a financial pickle. Eventually he's going to have to start liquidating properties to keep paying for $1000 an hour attorney fees. I would guess that Gates was struggling to keep up on his lawyer bills.
 
E

emperus

Diamond Member
Apr 6, 2012
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Seeing how meticulous Mueller has been. I think he already has the goods on Trump/co and wants to make the case as open and shut as possible, given the potential nature of his charges and the conspiracy theories abounding on the right. Hence the pressure to flip Manafort.
 
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Fanatical Meat

Fanatical Meat

Lifer
Feb 4, 2009
35,862
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vi edit said:
By most accounts that luxury lifestyle was an ultra-leveraged one and he was in quite a financial pickle. Eventually he's going to have to start liquidating properties to keep paying for $1000 an hour attorney fees. I would guess that Gates was struggling to keep up on his lawyer bills.
Click to expand...

I'm still looking for verification. Was the other banker involved have the last name of Cock (maybe Kock)? I heard that name on the radio yesterday and thought what an appropriate name.
 
woolfe9998

woolfe9998

Lifer
Apr 8, 2013
16,242
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emperus said:
Seeing how meticulous Mueller has been. I think he already has the goods on Trump/co and wants to make the case as open and shut as possible, given the potential nature of his charges and the conspiracy theories abounding on the right. Hence the pressure to flip Manafort.
Click to expand...

I'm a bit curious why Manafort hasn't flipped yet, especially now with the new charges. He's facing potentially a large amount of jail time. And he's not the sort to be loyal to anyone but himself. If he's been offered a pardon behind the scenes, then I have to wonder why Flynn wasn't offered the same. Also, Flynn's crimes (lying to the FBI, failing to register as a foreign agent) seem like they are all federal, while most of the charges against Manafort (i.e. fraud, money laundering) could be pursued in state court. So the pardon wouldn't be as much value to Manafort as it would be to Flynn.

Mueller's investigation is kind of a black box to me. It's tough to predict exactly where it's going.
 
vi edit

vi edit

Elite Member
Super Moderator
Oct 28, 1999
62,484
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woolfe9998 said:
I'm a bit curious why Manafort hasn't flipped yet, especially now with the new charges. He's facing potentially a large amount of jail time. And he's not the sort to be loyal to anyone but himself. If he's been offered a pardon behind the scenes, then I have to wonder why Flynn wasn't offered the same. Also, Flynn's crimes (lying to the FBI, failing to register as a foreign agent) seem like they are all federal, while most of the charges against Manafort (i.e. fraud, money laundering) could be pursued in state court. So the pardon wouldn't be as much value to Manafort as it would be to Flynn.

Mueller's investigation is kind of a black box to me. It's tough to predict exactly where it's going.
Click to expand...

Well, when you have made the last 30 years of your career fabricating warm and fuzzy public images for dictators and despots around the world, your ability to roll for the authorities is probably a bit precarious. There may be some very dark leverage on him that he'd rather face US prison/hold out for a pardon than spill the beans and end up taking a 4 story accidental tumble off of a building trying to move a hottub.
 
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UNCjigga

UNCjigga

Lifer
Dec 12, 2000
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What hasn't been revealed in indictments thus far (and where I suspect this is going) is how much money was laundered through the campaign in 2015-2016. I get the feeling Mueller knows something here and needs one of these two to corroborate and confirm in exchange for a plea deal on the $30 million laundered between 2010-2014.
 
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Perknose

Perknose

Forum Director & Omnipotent Overlord
Forum Director
Oct 9, 1999
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Re: Manafort. Saw the below today in this article about how Manafort's purported inability to convert a PDF to a Word file helped prosecutors nail him.

I needed the laugh.

clippy-fraud-800x450.jpg
 
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UNCjigga

UNCjigga

Lifer
Dec 12, 2000
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Maybe Mr. Gates has all the good dirt on Obama, Clinton, Lynch, Holder, and Rice? Just maybe??
 
J

Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
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woolfe9998 said:
I'm a bit curious why Manafort hasn't flipped yet, especially now with the new charges. He's facing potentially a large amount of jail time. And he's not the sort to be loyal to anyone but himself. If he's been offered a pardon behind the scenes, then I have to wonder why Flynn wasn't offered the same. Also, Flynn's crimes (lying to the FBI, failing to register as a foreign agent) seem like they are all federal, while most of the charges against Manafort (i.e. fraud, money laundering) could be pursued in state court. So the pardon wouldn't be as much value to Manafort as it would be to Flynn.

Mueller's investigation is kind of a black box to me. It's tough to predict exactly where it's going.
Click to expand...

Gates is only 45 so even if they give him 20 he'll be out at 62 w/ good behavior. Manafort is 68, so the difference between 20 years & 50 years doesn't matter much to him. He'll likely die in prison either way.
 
S

skull

Platinum Member
Jun 5, 2000
2,209
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Jhhnn said:
Gates is only 45 so even if they give him 20 he'll be out at 62 w/ good behavior. Manafort is 68, so the difference between 20 years & 50 years doesn't matter much to him. He'll likely die in prison either way.
Click to expand...

It sounds like gates could potentially get off with 18 months. They could offer manafort 5 years and 15 years house arrest/parole if he can sink trump.
 
K1052

K1052

Elite Member
Aug 21, 2003
52,129
45,167
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Manafort was just indicted for a bunch more shit.

Conspiracy against the US, conspiracy to launder money, unregistered agent of a foreign principal, false statements, and more.
 
Pens1566

Pens1566

Lifer
Oct 11, 2005
13,541
10,979
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woolfe9998 said:
I'm a bit curious why Manafort hasn't flipped yet, especially now with the new charges. He's facing potentially a large amount of jail time. And he's not the sort to be loyal to anyone but himself. If he's been offered a pardon behind the scenes, then I have to wonder why Flynn wasn't offered the same. Also, Flynn's crimes (lying to the FBI, failing to register as a foreign agent) seem like they are all federal, while most of the charges against Manafort (i.e. fraud, money laundering) could be pursued in state court. So the pardon wouldn't be as much value to Manafort as it would be to Flynn.

Mueller's investigation is kind of a black box to me. It's tough to predict exactly where it's going.
Click to expand...

He's scared he'll shoot himself in the back of the head 4 times, or have a heart attack falling off a building.

The guy has some serious life-threatening business partners around the world. Ones that would do things that make FPMITA prison seem like a cruise.
 
S

skull

Platinum Member
Jun 5, 2000
2,209
327
126
Pens1566 said:
He's scared he'll shoot himself in the back of the head 4 times, or have a heart attack falling off a building.

The guy has some serious life-threatening business partners around the world. Ones that would do things that make FPMITA prison seem like a cruise.
Click to expand...

I wonder what they are doing to protect gates and his family.
 
J

Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
14,685
136
woolfe9998 said:
I'm a bit curious why Manafort hasn't flipped yet, especially now with the new charges. He's facing potentially a large amount of jail time. And he's not the sort to be loyal to anyone but himself. If he's been offered a pardon behind the scenes, then I have to wonder why Flynn wasn't offered the same. Also, Flynn's crimes (lying to the FBI, failing to register as a foreign agent) seem like they are all federal, while most of the charges against Manafort (i.e. fraud, money laundering) could be pursued in state court. So the pardon wouldn't be as much value to Manafort as it would be to Flynn.

Mueller's investigation is kind of a black box to me. It's tough to predict exactly where it's going.
Click to expand...

The difference between Flynn & Manafort, I think, is that Flynn is a retarded agent, a useful idiot, whereas Manafort isn't that at all.

If Flynn advanced Russian interests it was probably because he believed they were congruent with our own. That's how the Russians would present them to Flynn. There are places where that's true. Ukraine isn't one of them & Manafort was a protege of Yanukovych, Moscow's kleptocrat in Ukraine. He knows the score.
 
5to1baby1in5

5to1baby1in5

Golden Member
Apr 27, 2001
1,250
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Mueller's job of flipping witnesses has to be easier due to Trump's past history of backing out of deals and screwing others to enrich himself. Any promise of a pardon is kind of a crap shoot that could rest on weather Trump feels that you are loyal enough that morning. Pardons aren't exactly something you can write into an iron clad contract.
 
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