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Indiana becomes a right to work state

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zsdersw said:
That's an argument for why unions are no longer needed; employee mobility is, oh I don't know, a billion times what it was in the early days of the industrial revolution.
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In the manufacturing field in the Midwest where I work in, wages stay competitive due to Union tradesman that are enjoying good wages.You take away the Unions it would be a matter of time where every blue collar work would be making minimum wage and if the GOP got their way to eliminate the Minimum wage then we would turn into a 3rd world Country.
 
Ausm said:
In the manufacturing field in the Midwest where I work in, wages stay competitive due to Union tradesman that are enjoying good wages.You take away the Unions it would be a matter of time where every blue collar work would be making minimum wage and if the GOP got their way to eliminate the Minimum wage then we would turn into a 3rd world Country.
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Bullshit!!!!! Gotta love the fear mongering by union shills.
 
Lemon law said:
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Maybe exactly the point, as right to work states will soon have the most exploited workers in the nations. Then thus proving repealing right to work laws will be an immediate need. Its says something about gutless Indiana legislators, who said yes when the wiser Ohio legislatures said no. And we already know what is happening in Wisconsin.

Engaging in class warfare is never smart.
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The problem, IMO, is that unions are fairly powerless when it comes to preventing outsourcing. Over the course of the last few years, they've dug in and tried to remain viable, but at each point, it seems the company has been able to wring more and more concessions out of them, up to and including elimination of positions.

I don't know the answer. I do know that not everyone can be a doctor, lawyer, engineer, scientist, etc. and that we need good, solid jobs to maintain a healthy and vibrant middle class. The middle class is deteriorating and it must be stopped, but I am not sure how.
 
Ausm said:
In the manufacturing field in the Midwest where I work in, wages stay competitive due to Union tradesman that are enjoying good wages.You take away the Unions it would be a matter of time where every blue collar work would be making minimum wage and if the GOP got their way to eliminate the Minimum wage then we would turn into a 3rd world Country.
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Why do you think manufacturing jobs have been disappearing from America and reappearing in other countries? Artificially inflated wages.
 
Londo_Jowo said:
Better yet, prove that your fear mongering claims will come to past.
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So basically your're talking out of your ass... It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure this out.

If you can be in a union making 25 as opposed doing the same job for 10. I would pick the 25/hour job.
 
Ausm said:
If you can be in a union making 25 as opposed doing the same job for 10. I would pick the 25/hour job.
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I would pick the $30/hr non-union job.. or do whatever it takes to become qualified for it and get it.

The moral of the story: better your employment by bettering yourself, not by relying on unions.
 
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sactoking said:
Ummm, no. They pay low wages because they not only hire unskilled labor, but they hire some of the worst unskilled labor in the country.
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Hiring unskilled workers is a good excuse for the second richest family in the US to pay poverty level wages? No.

I know people who work construction at local chemical plants making $20 an hour. All they have to do is hand the skilled craftsmen their tools.

Walmart is a good example of the divide between the rich and poor.

Instead of paying a liveable wage, walmart pays poverty level wages. To compensate for the low wages, the workers sign up on social benefit programs. This was the tax payers subsidize the wages of walmart employees.

If a chemical plant can pay people $20 an hour to be a helper (laborer), walmart can pay a liveable wage.

The difference is, unions help make the wages in the chemical plants what it is today.
 
zsdersw said:
Why do you think manufacturing jobs have been disappearing from America and reappearing in other countries? Artificially inflated wages.
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You must not know much about the manufacturing industry...the only people in the manufacturing industry that make good money are the skilled tradesman not the peons on the line.

The Skilled tradesman didn't lose their jobs, the jobs that were sent over seas where ones that could be done by unskilled labor barely making minimum wage.

One good thing about is the overall Chinese workmanship is so shitty that it gives skilled tool makers in the US a fulltime job.
 
Ausm said:
You must not know much about the manufacturing industry...the only people in the manufacturing industry that make good money are the skilled tradesman not the peons on the line.

The Skilled tradesman didn't lose their jobs, the jobs that were sent over seas where ones that could be done by unskilled labor barely making minimum wage.

One good thing about is the overall Chinese workmanship is so shitty that it gives skilled tool makers in the US a fulltime job.
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And you contend that without unions these skilled tradesmen would be back to making "peons on the line" wages? Nonsense.

Skilled workers are a naturally smaller pool in the overall workforce than unskilled. Their pay will, naturally, be higher. Even if all the manufacturers reduce their wages, someone's going to do what it takes to keep the best employees, and then manufacturing companies will be competing with each other for skilled workers, not all agreeing to pay the same.
 
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zsdersw said:
Why do you think manufacturing jobs have been disappearing from America and reappearing in other countries? Artificially inflated wages.
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Have you ever worked a manufacturing job?

If you had, you would know the wages are not artificially inflated.

I worked in manufacturing welding shops for 15 years, so I speak from experience. Wages are kept low due to competition. Think the lowest bidder pays the highest wages? Nope, that is not how it works. If you want to win the bids, you have to be either a high quality manufacturer or a low bidder. But you can not do both.
 
Texashiker said:
Have you ever worked a manufacturing job?

If you had, you would know the wages are not artificially inflated.

I worked in manufacturing welding shops for 15 years, so I speak from experience. Wages are kept low due to competition. Think the lowest bidder pays the highest wages? Nope, that is not how it works. If you want to win the bids, you have to be either a high quality manufacturer or a low bidder. But you can not do both.
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Wages for skilled tradesmen are artificially inflated. No one has yet demonstrated why unions for skilled workers are necessary.
 
zsdersw said:
And you contend that without unions these skilled tradesmen would be back to making "peons on the line" wages? Nonsense.

Skilled workers are a naturally smaller pool in the overall workforce than unskilled. Their pay will, naturally, be higher. Even if all the manufacturers reduce their wages, someone's going to do what it takes to keep the best employees, and then manufacturing companies will be competing with each other for skilled workers, not all agreeing to pay the same.
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Nonsense? LMAO Yeah riiight. Tell that to my Employer when he is constantly checking what the Union shops are paying when adjusting the pay scale where I work. If my employer doesn't stay competitive with the Union shops then there is nothing stopping the workers here quitting and working at a place that will.
 
Ausm said:
Nonsense? LMAO Yeah riiight. Tell that to my Employer when he is constantly checking what the Union shops are paying when adjusting the pay scale where I work. If my employee doesn't stay competitive with the Union shops then there is nothing stopping the workers here quitting and working at a place that will.
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What if there were no union shops? Then companies would have to compete for each employee based on his/her merits... and that's a good thing.
 
Ausm said:
So basically your're talking out of your ass... It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure this out.

If you can be in a union making 25 as opposed doing the same job for 10. I would pick the 25/hour job.
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Or you could be in a non-union job making $25/hr and not paying any dues like most skilled labor working in "Right to Work" states.
 
zsdersw said:
What if there were no union shops? Then companies would have to compete for each employee based on his/her merits... and that's a good thing.
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Where I live there I a Union shop every five feet and the myth where Unions keep dead weight is total bullshit especially in the skilled trades Unions.
 
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