Indiana becomes a right to work state

[zsdersw]

Where I live there I a Union shop every five feet and the myth where Unions keep dead weight is total bullshit especially in the skilled trades Unions.

So, other than there being other union shops around... why, exactly, do you need a union?

 

[Ausm]

Or you could be in a non-union job making $25/hr and not paying any dues like most skilled labor working in "Right to Work" states.

Um it's a well known fact wages in Right to work states are much less than non Right to fire States.

http://mediamatters.org/mobile/research/201105190026

 

[Ausm]

So, other than there being other union shops around... why, exactly, do you need a union?

You suffer from reading comprehension? I laid it out in my previous posts which you obviously ignored.

 

[Londo_Jowo]

Where I live there I a Union shop every five feet and the myth where Unions keep dead weight is total bullshit especially in the skilled trades Unions.

I've worked in many union facilities and you'd be lucky to get three hours of work in an eight hour shift out of the union skilled labor.

 

[Texashiker]

Wages for skilled tradesmen are artificially inflated. No one has yet demonstrated why unions for skilled workers are necessary.

1992 a welding shop I was working at had an accident. A part weighing about 12 tons fell on a guy and almost cut him in half. I was off that weekend, so I did not see the accident happen. The following monday, I saw blood all over the part, just before it taken outside to be sandblasted.

1989 I witnessed an accident where a part weighing about 7 tons fell on a worker. As we were using the crane to pick the part up, he was screaming in pain and started spitting up blood. The ambulance showed up in about 5 minutes after being called. About 45 minutes after the accident, the hospital called to tell us he had died. He left behind a 7 year old daughter.

When I think about his screams, it still get a chill down my back and feel like crying. Some of the other workers had to walk away, and put their hands over their ears to block out the screams.

Your ignorance about "inflated wages" is proof you have never done a hard days work in your life, much less worked in a dangerous environment.

 

[Ausm]

I've worked in many union facilities and you'd be lucky to get three hours of work in an eight hour shift out of the union skilled labor.

So your experience is applicable to all Unions then??

 

[Londo_Jowo]

1992 a welding shop I was working at had an accident. A part weighing about 12 tons fell on a guy and almost cut him in half. I was off that weekend, so I did not see the accident happen. The following monday, I saw blood all over the part, just before it taken outside to be sandblasted.

1989 I witnessed an accident where a part fell on a guy. As we were using the crane to pick the part up, he was screaming in pain and started spitting up blood. The ambulance showed up in about 5 minutes, about 45 minutes after the accident, the hospital called to tell us he had died.

Your ignorance about "inflated wages" is proof you have never done a hard days work in your life, much less worked in a dangerous environment.

Was the accident due to a mistake on the workers behalf (taking a short cut, not paying attention, exceeding the capacity of the rigging, or drinking on the job) ? Or was it due to the employer forcing the worker to take risks?

 

[Londo_Jowo]

So your experience is applicable to all Unions then??

Every union job I went on it was the same ole story. Construction is the absolute worse as the union workers drag their feet to prolong the job/project.

 

[Throckmorton]

After 2 years being in a union, I'm not sure what the point is. My wages are lower than federal workers who can't unionize, plus I have to pay union dues... Also, being in a union and being a government worker, I'm exempt from the state's health insurance employer mandate which costs me a lot.

Let me know when a union actually gets me a higher salary and better benefits. Obviously they seem to help most workers... Why not me? Why the fuck am I in a union if I don't even get paid enough to get by, not to mention the suckers making even less like the lifeguards at $8/hr?

 

[xBiffx]

1992 a welding shop I was working at had an accident. A part weighing about 12 tons fell on a guy and almost cut him in half. I was off that weekend, so I did not see the accident happen. The following monday, I saw blood all over the part, just before it taken outside to be sandblasted.

1989 I witnessed an accident where a part weighing about 7 tons fell on a worker. As we were using the crane to pick the part up, he was screaming in pain and started spitting up blood. The ambulance showed up in about 5 minutes after being called. About 45 minutes after the accident, the hospital called to tell us he had died. He left behind a 7 year old daughter.

When I think about his screams, it still get a chill down my back and feel like crying. Some of the other workers had to walk away, and put their hands over their ears to block out the screams.

Your ignorance about "inflated wages" is proof you have never done a hard days work in your life, much less worked in a dangerous environment.

What is the point of your story except to pull some heart strings? Would a union have stopped this? Do these people deserve higher pay because they don't pay attention to the highly dangerous work they do? I would say they deserve to get fired for being reckless. I know many other jobs that are much more dangerous and the stroke of a key or the turn of a knob could kill tens or hundreds. That doesn't mean shit as far as pay or unions are concerned. So I ask again, how does this have anything to do with right to work?

 

[zsdersw]

Your ignorance about "inflated wages" is proof you have never done a hard days work in your life, much less worked in a dangerous environment.

You don't have a clue what I've done.

 

[Texashiker]

Was the accident due to a mistake on the workers behalf (taking a short cut, not paying attention, exceeding the capacity of the rigging, or drinking on the job) ? Or was it due to the employer forcing the worker to take risks?

The accident with the 12 ton part was partly the workers part. The crew had welded a lifting lug on a 2:1 elliptical head to pick it up. The metal the lug was made out of was too thin, the shackle pulled through the metal dropping the part on a man.

The accident with the 7 ton part was due to the company removing part of a support leg on a turntable. The legs retruding in front of the turntable had been shorted by about a foot. This was so the device could be moved closer to another machine.

When the weight of the object on the turntable was calculated, the engineer forgot to figure in for the shortened legs.

The guy had the part on a vertical position, the table and part flipped forward pinning the man against a metal beam.

This is what a turntable looks like.

 

[halik]

And most of the union haters here probably owe most of their current working conditions they enjoy (hours/day/week. wages, etc) indirectly to unions.

I work 10+ hours a day, half of it whenever i show up in the morning till late at night, the other half starting sunday at 4-5pm till about 2am.

Unless you're doing menial work, unions have very little to do with your hours or conditions.

 

[zsdersw]

The accident with the 12 ton part was partly the workers part. The crew had welded a lifting lug on a 2:1 elliptical head to pick it up. The metal the lug was made out of was too thin, the shackle pulled through the metal dropping the part on a man.

The accident with the 7 ton part was due to the company removing part of a support leg on a turntable. The legs retruding in front of the turntable had been shorted by about a foot. This was so the device could be moved closer to another machine.

When the weight of the object on the turntable was calculated, the engineer forgot to figure in for the shortened legs.

The guy had the part on a vertical position, the table and part flipped forward pinning the man against a metal beam.

This is what a turntable looks like.

Mistakes were made. It happens. It also doesn't mean a union is necessary.

 

[Texashiker]

Mistakes were made. It happens. It also doesn't mean a union is necessary.

Part of what unions do is promote worker safety.

One non-union shop I worked in, we had to supply all of our own safety equipment - ear plugs, safety glasses, gloves, pay 100% the cost of our boots,,,, everything.

When you are having to fork out $100 every 3 - 4 months just for boots, plus gloves, and stuff like ear plugs, the money starts to add up.

 

[halik]

Um it's a well known fact wages in Right to work states are much less than non Right to fire States.

http://mediamatters.org/mobile/research/201105190026

I don't think that's a secret. Unemployment is the other way around - see Michigan etc. I much rather have more people working, than few people making inflated money at the cost of others' joblessness.

Fundamentally, if you have this skilled trade asset that's valuable, why do you need a union to inflate your wages?

 

[the DRIZZLE]

If a worker doesn't want to join what's stopping them from finding a new job?

I know you are troll and don't actually want an answer, but I'll give you one anyway. In some instances unions can become extremely powerful, often more powerful than the employer if the industry is highly fragmented like construction. When this happens the unions can basically force the employers to be closed shop which eliminates non-union labor and gives them even more power and a monopoly on the labor market.

Right to work laws simply prevent the unions from gaining exclusive contracts which provides a reasonable check on their ability to build monopoly power.

 

[halik]

1992 a welding shop I was working at had an accident. A part weighing about 12 tons fell on a guy and almost cut him in half. I was off that weekend, so I did not see the accident happen. The following monday, I saw blood all over the part, just before it taken outside to be sandblasted.

1989 I witnessed an accident where a part weighing about 7 tons fell on a worker. As we were using the crane to pick the part up, he was screaming in pain and started spitting up blood. The ambulance showed up in about 5 minutes after being called. About 45 minutes after the accident, the hospital called to tell us he had died. He left behind a 7 year old daughter.

When I think about his screams, it still get a chill down my back and feel like crying. Some of the other workers had to walk away, and put their hands over their ears to block out the screams.

Your ignorance about "inflated wages" is proof you have never done a hard days work in your life, much less worked in a dangerous environment.

So your argument is :
Accidents happen to people therefore the wages aren't inflated.

You may be immune to logic.

 

[zsdersw]

Part of what unions do is promote worker safety.

One non-union shop I worked in, we had to supply all of our own safety equipment - ear plugs, safety glasses, gloves, pay 100% the cost of our boots,,,, everything.

None of which is beyond reach when workers market themselves rather than depend on unions for their pay increases.

 

[Texashiker]

So your argument is :
Accidents happen to people therefore the wages aren't inflated.

People that risk life and limb should be paid more then those that do not risk anything.

This is why people in the military get paid more while in a combat zone.

 

[Londo_Jowo]

Um it's a well known fact wages in Right to work states are much less than non Right to fire States.

http://mediamatters.org/mobile/research/201105190026

LMAO!!!!! Using a liberal biased site to back up your fear mongering.

I know all the main OEMs of industrial equipment in the Houston area pay their skilled worker at the same levels as if not better than union wages.

 

[zsdersw]

People that risk life and limb should be paid more then those that do not risk anything.

This is why people in the military get paid more while in a combat zone.

In the military in a combat zone != industrial/manufacturing work in the US.

 

[halik]

People that risk life and limb should be paid more then those that do not risk anything.

This is why people in the military get paid more while in a combat zone.

Agreed. With that mind, if you argument is that union shops are generally SAFER than non-union shops, a worker at a union shop should be making LESS than one at a non union shop.

I do think there are stats backing up that union shops are safer, though not sure if that's adjusted by output/production.

 

[MotF Bane]

Mistakes were made. It happens. It also doesn't mean a union is necessary.

This. A union isn't going to prevent those accidents.

 

[Londo_Jowo]

Part of what unions do is promote worker safety.

One non-union shop I worked in, we had to supply all of our own safety equipment - ear plugs, safety glasses, gloves, pay 100% the cost of our boots,,,, everything.

When you are having to fork out $100 every 3 - 4 months just for boots, plus gloves, and stuff like ear plugs, the money starts to add up.

I work in a non-union shop and we exceed OSHA requirements. Violate safety and you will be terminated....immediately.

We provide safety boots and prescription safety glasses yearly. Standard PPE is always available in the tool room.

PPE = Personal Protection Equipment