India - Pakistan Crisis

[5150Joker]

Originally posted by: DaveSimmons
Regarding how effective Pakistan is at controlling its terrorists:

Seattle Times (NY Times) - Taliban in control at Pakistan border ( link )
"PESHAWAR, Pakistan ? This frontier city boasts a major air base and Pakistani army and paramilitary garrisons. But the 200 Taliban guerrillas were in no rush as they methodically ransacked a NATO supply depot here two weeks ago.

The rebels began by blocking off a long stretch of the main road, giving them plenty of time to burn everything inside, said one guard, Haroon Khan, who was standing next to a row of charred trucks.

After assuring the overmatched guards they would not be killed ? if they agreed never to work there again ? the extremists shouted "God is great" through bullhorns. They then grabbed jerrycans and made several trips to a nearby gas station for fuel, which they dumped on the cargo trucks and Humvees before setting them ablaze.
. . . "


Sounds like India and the US forces in Afghanistan need to just ignore Pakistan's sovereignty and take action if it can't police itself.

That supply depot was basically being guarded by low paid security guards. Do you think they'd be stupid enough to take on the Taliban? Talk about grasping for straws.

 

[DaveSimmons]

Originally posted by: 5150Joker

That supply depot was basically being guarded by low paid security guards. Do you think they'd be stupid enough to take on the Taliban? Talk about grasping for straws.

How does that change the fact that Pakistan is letting private terrorist armies roam at will?

While these people nearby do nothing?

"PESHAWAR, Pakistan ? This frontier city boasts a major air base and Pakistani army and paramilitary garrisons."

 

[5150Joker]

Originally posted by: DaveSimmons

Originally posted by: 5150Joker

That supply depot was basically being guarded by low paid security guards. Do you think they'd be stupid enough to take on the Taliban? Talk about grasping for straws.

How does that change the fact that Pakistan is letting private terrorist armies roam at will?

While these people nearby do nothing?

"PESHAWAR, Pakistan ? This frontier city boasts a major air base and Pakistani army and paramilitary garrisons."

It's a US military depot, they should guard it, not Pakistan.

 

[Dari]

Originally posted by: 5150Joker

Originally posted by: DaveSimmons

Originally posted by: 5150Joker

That supply depot was basically being guarded by low paid security guards. Do you think they'd be stupid enough to take on the Taliban? Talk about grasping for straws.

How does that change the fact that Pakistan is letting private terrorist armies roam at will?

While these people nearby do nothing?

"PESHAWAR, Pakistan ? This frontier city boasts a major air base and Pakistani army and paramilitary garrisons."

It's a US military depot, they should guard it, not Pakistan.

It's in Pakistan. I'm sure America would love to have a base in Pakistan though...

 

[DaveSimmons]

Originally posted by: 5150Joker

Originally posted by: DaveSimmons

Originally posted by: 5150Joker

That supply depot was basically being guarded by low paid security guards. Do you think they'd be stupid enough to take on the Taliban? Talk about grasping for straws.

How does that change the fact that Pakistan is letting private terrorist armies roam at will?

While these people nearby do nothing?

"PESHAWAR, Pakistan ? This frontier city boasts a major air base and Pakistani army and paramilitary garrisons."

It's a US military depot, they should guard it, not Pakistan.

Ah, so you agree with my original comment then?

Sounds like India and the US forces in Afghanistan need to just ignore Pakistan's sovereignty and take action if it can't police itself.

Currently Pakistan is neither policing itself nor inviting the US forces in to help it restore order.

 

[5150Joker]

Originally posted by: Dari

Originally posted by: 5150Joker

Originally posted by: DaveSimmons

Originally posted by: 5150Joker

That supply depot was basically being guarded by low paid security guards. Do you think they'd be stupid enough to take on the Taliban? Talk about grasping for straws.

How does that change the fact that Pakistan is letting private terrorist armies roam at will?

While these people nearby do nothing?

"PESHAWAR, Pakistan ? This frontier city boasts a major air base and Pakistani army and paramilitary garrisons."

It's a US military depot, they should guard it, not Pakistan.

It's in Pakistan. I'm sure America would love to have a base in Pakistan though...

What makes you think the US doesn't already?

 

[crisscross]

hmm the jokers and the ranmaniacs should really read up a little more. The Kargil war was relatively recent little more than 10 years ago. The Pakistanis and the Taliban militants who fought with them had the tactical superiority. They had occupied the mountains and pretty much got all the positions they wanted. Remember the war was fought in one of the world's highest and coldest places and the Pakistanis had time to acclimatize themselves. The Indians were at a major disadvantage with the temperatures reaching -76. Even under those conditions we kicked their butt.

Now as to India having a little more than numerical superiority. India is the world's second largest arms importer next only to China.

 

[ZzZGuy]

To the Indian members I have a question.

Do "you" want India to go to war with Pakistan or not? Either way why?

Serious question, just want to know.

 

[The Green Bean]

MULTAN: Foreign Minister Shah Mehmood Qureshi said on Thursday that the risk of war between Pakistan and India cannot be ruled out given India?s provocative rhetoric.
Talking to reporters in Multan, the foreign minister said that Pakistan was fully prepared to meet any eventuality.
?If India carries out any surgical strike on Pakistani soil, we will give a befitting response,? he said.
Qureshi said Pakistan has clearly stated that it wants peace but if war is ?imposed,? it will defend itself.
?We have informed our friendly countries, including OIC, that if India imposes war on Pakistan our armed forces will give an equal response.?
He said that Pakistan condemns terrorism and wants to expose the culprits.
?We have also conveyed our grief to the families of those who lost their loved ones in Mumbai attacks?, the foreign minister said.
Qureshi said ?we want to give a message that the whole nation stands united and knows how to defend the geographical boundaries of the homeland?.
The comments follow recent forays by fighter aircraft over several of the country?s major cities, though Qureshi noted the military has not mobilised its ground forces.
?We should hope for the best but prepare for the worst,? Qureshi said.

ISLAMABAD: The impacts of Pak-India standoff on the war against terrorism have started unfolding, as military operation in the tribal areas appears hard-hit, according to British media.

Pakistani officials view that the confrontations, which the Mumbai attacks have generated, could not perhaps end even after several years, but their strategy has not let India militarily, diplomatically and politically stay long at that position, which immediately after Mumbai attacks, it had achieved out of the international community sympathies, sentimental political statements and, thereby, dared threatening surgical strikes within Pakistan airspace.

BBC report said that Pakistan leadership considering their stance, relating to Pakistan or any of its state organizations was not involved in Mumbai attacks, globally accepted their biggest achievement.

ISLAMABAD: The leave of Pakistan Army troops has been cancelled in the wake of tension between Pakistan and India.

According to sources, Army have been put on high alert Pakistan Air Force remained vigilant for the protection of airspace.

The contacts with friendly countries and military partners have been activated. Defence analysts said the troops withdrawal from FATA and NWFP would likely be happened in case of escalation of tension on eastern border.

The sad part is there are warmongers on both sides.

 

[The Green Bean]

Originally posted by: ZzZGuy
International sanctions -assuming everyone is on board- should be good enough of a threat to make the Pakistani government take responsibility for what goes on in their country and do something about it. If they don't their entire government will be destroyed and replaced with the taliban which will probably hunt down and kill all notable politicians along with cutting off The Green Beans hands for taking with infidels.

I don't think international sanctions is are the table. China would veto any such move. Secondly the USA needs us more than we need them. Sanctions would mean we would wreak havoc in Afghanistan, cut US supplies, team up with Iran.

 

[tvarad]

Throughout Pakistan's troubles in the last couple of years, India has studiously avoiding taking advantage of the instability to weaken it's neighbor. The gloves should come off. India should now start cutting the feet from underneath the Pakistanis and start supporting the Balochis in their quest for independence and also endorse Afghanistan's claim to Pakistan's Pashtun region.

 

[5150Joker]

Originally posted by: tvarad
Throughout Pakistan's troubles in the last couple of years, India has studiously avoiding taking advantage of the instability to weaken it's neighbor. The gloves should come off. India should now start cutting the feet from underneath the Pakistanis and start supporting the Balochis in their quest for independence and also endorse Afghanistan's claim to Pakistan's Pashtun region.

Like India hasn't already done all of that in the past? Who do you think you're fooling here?

 

[theflyingpig]

Originally posted by: tvarad
Throughout Pakistan's troubles in the last couple of years, India has studiously avoiding taking advantage of the instability to weaken it's neighbor. The gloves should come off. India should now start cutting the feet from underneath the Pakistanis and start supporting the Balochis in their quest for independence and also endorse Afghanistan's claim to Pakistan's Pashtun region.

Agreed, India really needs to take action and end this madness.

 

[palehorse]

Originally posted by: The Green Bean

Originally posted by: Common Courtesy
India's response to the situation was a comedy of errors. The ability to respond was further compromised by logistics and lack of coordination.

Also, the moment you have more than two simultaneous attacks, then the authorities start to be fearful of committing forces because the full picture is not known.

Unless they want to storm the building without proper intel (causing unneeded causalities), it can take a day or two to gather Intel and determine a proper attack plan. The real world does not reflect the 60 minutes SWAT response on TV anymore.

People planning such types of attacks will research to find weaknesses in the system and exploit them. Such weaknesses are most likely in plain sight and is doing the complete illogical/unexpected.

Media sells stories and shock to the readers. News events are to be dramatized for effect and will be targeted toward the readership.

If the one person was not taken alive, it would be harder for India to linking the situation to Pakistan - there would be innuendos, but the first hand corroboration would not exist. that is what is most damming. the person's father coinging forward from Pakistan and stating that it is his son.

It is also very likely that there is an extremist group that was not interested in covering their tracks - they want to force a confrontation and get name recognition.

There is absolutely no proof of Pakistan's involvement.There is no proof that the attack was planned IN Pakistan. What if an American born planned attacks in Pakistan? Would America be responsible? I will not believe India's version until I see proof. And you haven't answered my question. Do you believe in India's version of 10 terrorists holding up against the entire nation? Do you believe they crossed by sea?

AND JoS you're just rambling on. Nobody cares what you say. You are a liar and I don't value your comments. Get out of this thread.

It was on live TV for the whole effing world to see!! Whats to question about that? Were you sleeping through those days?

3 days? It was probably a lot more than 10 terrorists. Either that or the police was unwilling to go in because they were somehow involved. The Police Chief Karkare involved in another terrorist investigation was also killed. 3 days to plan and you get your police chief killed on the first? That's retarded unless someone else was behind his murder. 3 terrorists in each building and it takes 3 days. AND there were still 172 dead. Major failure of Indian intelligence I would say. 10 terrorists doesn't even seem like a major operation. It was just a failure of India that they were so successful. And the media had already started to blame Pakistan only hours after the incident started.

Poor intelligence? Yes. Slow response? Yes. Poor policing? Yes. Cowards? No - the commandos were anything but cowards. What about all the stories of heroism by the hotel staff? Thats not cowardice.

As to smuggling weapons by boat - it's not as difficult as you think. No country can provides absolute guarantees that its coastline (specially as large as India's) will never be breached, or a small force can slip in unnoticed. Heck thats what special forces are trained to do.

But you choose to keep your buried in your own propaganda and spin.

Everybody responding to this topic cant be wrong and only you right. Maybe its time for some introspection.

300 million Americans were wrong about Iraq. Just because a million people say something it can't be right. And if the weapons WERE infact smuggled by sea it's a major failure of Inian intelligence. Every building has its heroes. However I don't understand people calling terrorists cowards. They knew they were dying and still went in. Wrong. Yes. Cowards. No.

LOL! I don't even know where to begin in describing just how ignorant you are, on all things... wow.

Originally posted by: The Green Bean
With a population of some 165 million, Pakistan exported US$3.7 billion worth of merchandise to the United States in 2006, up 12.9% from 2005 and up 59.4% since 2002.

Pakistani imports from the U.S. rose 59% to $2 billion in 2006, up 187% since 2002.

In terms of the merchandise flow between the two countries, America?s trade deficit with Pakistan was $1.7 billion in 2006, up 4.5% from 2002. The U.S. trade deficit with Pakistan decreased 16% in 2006 ? down from the 88.6% deficit increase in 2005 from the year earlier.

Pakistani Exports to U.S.

Of the $3.7 billion in American imports from Pakistan in 2006, the following product categories had the highest values.

1. Cotton apparel & household furnishings ?US$2.6 billion (70.6% of Pakistani to U.S. exports, up 18.6% from 2005)
2. Cotton cloth & fabrics (threads, cordage) ? $351 million (9.6%, down 5.6%)
3. Other textiles apparel & household furnishings ? $138.3 million (3.8%, down 11.6%)
4. Textile floor coverings including rugs ? $122.1 million (3.3%, down 2.1%)
5. Non-textile apparel & household furnishings ? $81.4 million (2.2%, up 7.2%)
6. Sporting & camping apparel, footwear & gear ? $61.2 million (1.7%, up 4.7%)
7. Other scientific, medical & hospital equipment ? $37.9 million (1%, up 10.4%)
8. Toys, bicycles and other sporting goods ? $34.4 million (0.9%, up 16.5%)
9. Synthetic cloth & fabrics (threads, cordage) ? $23.7 million (0.6%, down 39.1%)
10. Cookware, cutlery, house & garden wares including tools ? $21.4 million (0.6%, up 10.2%).

Fastest-Growing Pakistani Exports to U.S.

Below are American imports from Pakistan in 2006 with the highest percentage sales increases from 2005.

1. Industrial organic chemicals ? US$13.6 million (up 339,100% from 2005)
2. Bakery & confectionary products ? $5.3 million (up 197%)
3. Miscellaneous items (e.g. tobacco, waxes, non-food oils) ? $18.8 million (up 119%)
4. Other automotive parts & accessories ? $2.8 million (up 115%)
5. Fruits & preparations (e.g. frozen juices) ? $4.4 million (up 104%).

Pakistani Imports from U.S.

Of the $2 billion in American exports to Pakistan in 2006, the following product categories had the highest values.

1. Civilian aircraft (complete) ?US$753.1 million (37.9% of Pakistani to U.S. exports, up 1,739% from 2005)
2. Generators & accessories ? $132.3 million (6.6%, up 135.7%)
3. Cotton ? $117 million (5.9%, down 20.6%)
4. Computer accessories ? $308.4 million (4.5%, up 7.2%)
5. Chemical fertilizers ? $87.3 million (4.4%, down 51.6%)
6. Telecommunications equipment ? $64.1 million (3.2%, down 24.6%)
7. Tanks, artillery, missiles, rockets, guns & ammunition ? $61.7 million (3.1%, up 150,368%)
8. Civil aircraft (parts) ? $53.2 million (2.7%, up 5.5%)
9. Military parts ? $43 million (2.2%, up 27.3%)
10. Engines & turbines for military aircraft ? $40.9 million (2.1%, up 2,186.4%).

Fastest-Growing Pakistani Imports from U.S.

Below are American exports to Pakistan in 2006 with the highest percentage sales increases from 2005.

1. Tanks, artillery, missiles, rockets, guns & ammunition ? US $61.7 million (up 150,368% from 2005)
2. Engines & turbines for military aircraft ? $40.9 million (up 2,186.4%)
3. Civilian aircraft (complete) ? $753.1 million (up 1,739%)
4. Sports apparel & gear ? $3.4 million (up 917%)
5. Cotton fiber cloth ? $2.5 million (up 872%).

Yet, the only statistic we really need to know is that Pakistan remains the world's leading exporter of violent terrorism... imagine that.

you must be so proud...

 

[SagaLore]

This conflict makes me sad.

This thread makes me sad.

:brokenheart:

 

[Aimster]

Pakistan's govt. does not support any of the terrorist that live there. Especially since it was the terrorists that killed the current leader's wife.

 

[dphantom]

Originally posted by: Aimster
Pakistan's govt. does not support any of the terrorist that live there. Especially since it was the terrorists that killed the current leader's wife.

The civilian government may not, but ISI does continue to fund and support Taliban groups and LeT.

 

[The Green Bean]

Originally posted by: palehorse

LOL! I don't even know where to begin in describing just how ignorant you are, on all things... wow.

Retard, is that all your "superiors" have taught you? Now get lost from this thread. I am tired of your BS.

 

[The Green Bean]

Originally posted by: dphantom

Originally posted by: Aimster
Pakistan's govt. does not support any of the terrorist that live there. Especially since it was the terrorists that killed the current leader's wife.

The civilian government may not, but ISI does continue to fund and support Taliban groups and LeT.

Proof?

 

[Dari]

Originally posted by: The Green Bean

Originally posted by: dphantom

Originally posted by: Aimster
Pakistan's govt. does not support any of the terrorist that live there. Especially since it was the terrorists that killed the current leader's wife.

The civilian government may not, but ISI does continue to fund and support Taliban groups and LeT.

Proof?

Kashmir.

 

[The Green Bean]

Originally posted by: Dari

Originally posted by: The Green Bean

Originally posted by: dphantom

Originally posted by: Aimster
Pakistan's govt. does not support any of the terrorist that live there. Especially since it was the terrorists that killed the current leader's wife.

The civilian government may not, but ISI does continue to fund and support Taliban groups and LeT.

Proof?

Kashmir.

They are not taliban groups. The LeT is banned. They are "freedom fighters" from Kashmir fighting for Kashmir. And lets not forget the state sponsored terrorism by India in their side of Kashmir. If firing on innocent civilians protesting is not the worst form of state sponsored terrorism what is?

What was the USA's funding for the mujahdeen against Russia? Support for terrorist group? Or is it okay for the USA to do it because they are somehow smarter?

 

[Aimster]

Why the hell does India want Kashmir? It's Muslim.
so ghey

 

[Dari]

Originally posted by: The Green Bean

Originally posted by: Dari

Originally posted by: The Green Bean

Originally posted by: dphantom

Originally posted by: Aimster
Pakistan's govt. does not support any of the terrorist that live there. Especially since it was the terrorists that killed the current leader's wife.

The civilian government may not, but ISI does continue to fund and support Taliban groups and LeT.

Proof?

Kashmir.

They are not taliban groups. The LeT is banned. They are "freedom fighters" from Kashmir fighting for Kashmir. And lets not forget the state sponsored terrorism by India in their side of Kashmir. If firing on innocent civilians protesting is not the worst form of state sponsored terrorism what is?

What was the USA's funding for the mujahdeen against Russia? Support for terrorist group? Or is it okay for the USA to do it because they are somehow smarter?

Everything you're telling me I can get from official sources. But we all know that's not the case. For example, LeT was not completely banned and they, like other militant groups, have proven useful proxies in Pakistan's wars.

 

[The Green Bean]

Originally posted by: Dari

Originally posted by: The Green Bean

Originally posted by: Dari

Originally posted by: The Green Bean

Originally posted by: dphantom

Originally posted by: Aimster
Pakistan's govt. does not support any of the terrorist that live there. Especially since it was the terrorists that killed the current leader's wife.

The civilian government may not, but ISI does continue to fund and support Taliban groups and LeT.

Proof?

Kashmir.

They are not taliban groups. The LeT is banned. They are "freedom fighters" from Kashmir fighting for Kashmir. And lets not forget the state sponsored terrorism by India in their side of Kashmir. If firing on innocent civilians protesting is not the worst form of state sponsored terrorism what is?

What was the USA's funding for the mujahdeen against Russia? Support for terrorist group? Or is it okay for the USA to do it because they are somehow smarter?

Everything you're telling me I can get from official sources. But we all know that's not the case. For example, LeT was not completely banned and they, like other militant groups, have proven useful proxies in Pakistan's wars.

How do you "know?"

 

[RabidMongoose]

Originally posted by: Aimster
Why the hell does India want Kashmir? It's Muslim.
so ghey

Typical fundamentalist/extremist response coupled with homophobia.

It doesn't matter if the people are majority Muslim if there is a legitimate property claim.