Incomprehensible mass shooting happens again

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Tsinni Dave

Tsinni Dave

Senior member
Mar 1, 2022
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Zorba said:
A lot of people grew up and grow into different problems between 18 and 25. When I was 18 I had daily suicidal thoughts, by the time I was 25 and ever since I've been pretty happy. People think because their life sucks in highschool it'll suck forever, then you get out into the real world and realize highschool just sucks.
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Highschool with its cliques and self imposed conformity as well as puberty and stress of entering the real world are probably the worst years for many. Then if you survive that, you realize what a tiny, cloistered world it was and you can grow toward something bigger, if you aren't completely crushed by it. The bigger question is why so many American "adults" seem to need an AR as a security blanket or to give them an identity other than just another human. I often hear Americans proudly identify as being a "gun owner" as though it fucking means something. Guns are tools and most of us have them but a hunting rifle is not an AR, and while probably cool to shoot at a range, or handy in an actual war zone, thinking you need (or have an actual use for) one at home is a symptom of a deeper psychosis imo. I'd much prefer if folks got all worked up about being a "guitar owner" or "carving tool owner" for example, especially since either of those are actually much more difficult tools to truly master.
 
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pmv

Lifer
May 30, 2008
13,034
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Now I think about it, the trouble with raising the age you can legally buy a gun is that doubtless there will be cases of 18-year-olds acquiring one from an older friend or sibling, or taking their parents' insecurely-stored weapon...
 
Fenixgoon

Fenixgoon

Lifer
Jun 30, 2003
31,545
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pmv said:
Now I think about it, the trouble with raising the age you can legally buy a gun is that doubtless there will be cases of 18-year-olds acquiring one from an older friend or sibling, or taking their parents' insecurely-stored weapon...
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and yet alcohol is harder to acquire for a high schooler than marijuana specifically because it is regulated.

would this stop every incident? no. would it reduce the likelihood? yes.
 
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dlerious

Golden Member
Mar 4, 2004
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Fenixgoon said:
and yet alcohol is harder to acquire for a high schooler than marijuana specifically because it is regulated.

would this stop every incident? no. would it reduce the likelihood? yes.
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Isn't marijuana regulated? It's illegal federally and in some states while being regulated at the state level in others.
 
Zorba

Zorba

Lifer
Oct 22, 1999
14,519
9,895
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Tsinni Dave said:
Highschool with its cliques and self imposed conformity as well as puberty and stress of entering the real world are probably the worst years for many. Then if you survive that, you realize what a tiny, cloistered world it was and you can grow toward something bigger, if you aren't completely crushed by it. The bigger question is why so many American "adults" seem to need an AR as a security blanket or to give them an identity other than just another human. I often hear Americans proudly identify as being a "gun owner" as though it fucking means something. Guns are tools and most of us have them but a hunting rifle is not an AR, and while probably cool to shoot at a range, or handy in an actual war zone, thinking you need (or have an actual use for) one at home is a symptom of a deeper psychosis imo. I'd much prefer if folks got all worked up about being a "guitar owner" or "carving tool owner" for example, especially since either of those are actually much more difficult tools to truly master.
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Republicans are a a very large, loose cult, so identity is very important. Being a "gun owner" is one of those identities many feel is required to be truly in the club. Also, that group of people instantly dismissing the opinion of anyone who isn't a gun owner on anything related to guns.
 
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NWRMidnight

Platinum Member
Jun 18, 2001
2,930
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Zorba said:
A lot of people grow up and grow into different problems between 18 and 25. When I was 18 I had daily suicidal thoughts, by the time I was 25 and ever since I've been pretty happy. People think because their life sucks in highschool it'll suck forever, then you get out into the real world and realize highschool just sucks. If nothing else schools will no longer be seen as the source of their problems by 25.
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What? You think real life after high school is less stressful or sucks less? Real life, adulting is 100 times more stressful and sucks a lot more than high school. We have just learned how to handle it differently to where it doesn't effect us the same.

Besides, we aren't talking about just high school, we are also talking about the years after, up to the age 24/25. If it's about "growing up", then why are most gun deaths and violent gun crimes committed by the age group of 24 to 35? Yes, people will grow into different problems brought on by real life (adulting), but that doesn't mean they will learn to handle what real life throws at them by the age 25 any better. All that changes will be what they view as the source of their problem (high school, work, family, what ever), and that they won't have the opportunity to easily use a gun till 25 if the age limit was raised. But how they learn to cope with the stresses, really is the problem.. It's not high school, adulting, etc.. those are just sources of stress. it's IF they learn how to cope with that stress in a healthy manner. Since the statistics show that gun deaths and gun violence is a bigger problem between the ages of 24 and 35, it appears that learning how to cope and handle it different isn't necessarily going to improve for those under 25, regardless of the age limit on buying guns.

As for suicidal thoughts. Many people of all ages, have those thoughts thru out life, with many following thru with those thoughts. I went as far as putting my 30/30 hunting rifle in my mouth at the age of 16 and had my finger on the trigger.. The only thing that kept me from pulling the trigger is the thought of what it would do to one person. Why I had reached that point, had zero to do with high school. Home life away from school was the cause (abuse, physical/mental), High school was my safe haven. I did not have the resources or the ability to cope with the problems of my home life. The very resources or people who where supposed to be the ones teaching me how to handle the stress in a healthy manner, was the source of the stress and aggression. . Fortunately, I was able to move away from that situation, that next year, which improved my outlook on life and allowed me to learn how to handle the stresses of life better. I was happy thru the rest of high school and my grades improved. But just because you where able to get past suicidal thoughts, and I got past my hair trigger away of actually succeeding, doesn't mean that is how it will play out for anyone else. We can't predict how life plays out for anyone. We can only hope for the best.
 
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Meghan54

Meghan54

Lifer
Oct 18, 2009
11,527
5,045
136
pmv said:
Now I think about it, the trouble with raising the age you can legally buy a gun is that doubtless there will be cases of 18-year-olds acquiring one from an older friend or sibling, or taking their parents' insecurely-stored weapon...
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Yes, the old "the trouble with" dodge. Guess we should just require every damned person in the U.S. to be armed with no less than a 9mm semi-auto pistol and an AR-15 knock-off. That'll learn 'em.
 
P

pmv

Lifer
May 30, 2008
13,034
7,963
136
Fenixgoon said:
and yet alcohol is harder to acquire for a high schooler than marijuana specifically because it is regulated.

would this stop every incident? no. would it reduce the likelihood? yes.
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Don't disagree. Just saying that there will be some who get round such restrictions, and as soon as someone does there will be a cry of "see? It doesn't work".
 
P

pmv

Lifer
May 30, 2008
13,034
7,963
136
Meghan54 said:
Yes, the old "the trouble with" dodge. Guess we should just require every damned person in the U.S. to be armed with no less than a 9mm semi-auto pistol and an AR-15 knock-off. That'll learn 'em.
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Hardly a 'dodge', just a thought that occurred to me. Your gun laws seem quite mad, to me. But you are stuck with that absurd Constitution.
 
HomerJS

HomerJS

Lifer
Feb 6, 2002
36,043
27,774
136
Republicans don't want to solve the problem. They just want to take the issue off the table before the mid terms

What I didn't see in framework...

Red flag laws nationwide
raise age to 21 for military style assault weapons (handguns are already 21 so why do we allow 18 for AR-15s?)
universal background checks for ALL gun transactions.

This isn't everything that should be done. This will be completely watered down.
 
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eelw

Diamond Member
Dec 4, 1999
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HomerJS said:
Republicans don't want to solve the problem. They just want to take the issue off the table before the mid terms

What I didn't see in framework...

Red flag laws nationwide
raise age to 21 for military style assault weapons (handguns are already 21 so why do we allow 18 for AR-15s?)
universal background checks for ALL gun transactions.

This isn't everything that should be done. This will be completely watered down.
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Yup Moscow Mitch just pretending they did something. But Biden did flatly state this isnt enough. So he can just repeat this until November.
 
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Mai72

Mai72

Lifer
Sep 12, 2012
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pmv said:
Hardly a 'dodge', just a thought that occurred to me. Your gun laws seem quite mad, to me. But you are stuck with that absurd Constitution.
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But, we have to protect ourselves against a military that has an unlimited supply of rockets, jets, tanks. Our AR15s can beat back the US military. :D
 
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thilanliyan

Lifer
Jun 21, 2005
11,864
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NWRMidnight said:
All though it will reduce the gun deaths and gun crimes under 25 because they won't have easy access to guns, a percentage will then move to the higher age group because those that won't be able to get guns before 25, will then have to wait till 25 purchase them. Raising the age limit isn't going to change most of these people's mentality on killing people, or committing violent crimes using a gun, it will just post pone it for many of them, as the age limit won't prevent what ever "feelings" or mental breakdown that drove them to such an act. It could actually cause them to hold them inside where they fester and their rage gets worse. In fact, if the age limit is raised, we will most likely see less school shootings (great), but an increase in work place shootings (not great).
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As others have mentioned, people absolutely change between 18-25, and generally mellow out (and "grow up") relatively speaking. Yes, adulting is hard but teenager/young adults a lot of the time feel the whole world is against them whereas you learn that isn't the case as you get older.

Assuming 100% of the people who want to commit crimes at 18 will also do so at 25 is reaching IMO. If I follow your logic, why not reduce the age to 15, or 13, or 10 even? I mean if they don't really grow/mature between 18-25, what says they will mature between 10-18?
 
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darkswordsman17

Lifer
Mar 11, 2004
23,070
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thilanliyan said:
As others have mentioned, people absolutely change between 18-25, and generally mellow out (and "grow up") relatively speaking. Yes, adulting is hard but teenager/young adults a lot of the time feel the whole world is against them whereas you learn that isn't the case as you get older.

Assuming 100% of the people who want to commit crimes at 18 will also do so at 25 is reaching IMO. If I follow your logic, why not reduce the age to 15, or 13, or 10 even? I mean if they don't really grow/mature between 18-25, what says they will mature between 10-18?
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A LOT of mental health issues manifest in that 16-25 year age, so the full of shit gun nutters that just scream "mental health" while tacitly doing less than nothing (often actively work against anything and everything even) about mental health, seems like perhaps something to consider.

I think most people know someone that went through very destructive (often self) phase of life during that time.
 
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NWRMidnight

Platinum Member
Jun 18, 2001
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thilanliyan said:
As others have mentioned, people absolutely change between 18-25, and generally mellow out (and "grow up") relatively speaking. Yes, adulting is hard but teenager/young adults a lot of the time feel the whole world is against them whereas you learn that isn't the case as you get older.

Assuming 100% of the people who want to commit crimes at 18 will also do so at 25 is reaching IMO. If I follow your logic, why not reduce the age to 15, or 13, or 10 even? I mean if they don't really grow/mature between 18-25, what says they will mature between 10-18?
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You are the 2nd person who is throwing around 100% claim.. nowhere did I say that, Is said a percentage. By even claiming such, you are indicating a comprehension failure, and is not my logic, that is your failure. Go read what I said again..

Now, Yes, they change, the difference is you are assuming that those changes are always in the right direction.. That is an unrealistic assumption. Again, the most gun deaths and violent gun crimes are from ages 24 to 35.. Which indicates that a certain percentage will not "grow" or "change" in a positive manner, which means that raising the gun age to 25, as I said will reduce gun deaths and violent crimes below 25, but it will increase them from 24 to 35..

If time, growing older and changing is the answer to gun violence, why did the Vegas massacre happen by a 64 year old man? If time, growing older, allowing people to change up to 25 is the answer to gun violence, again why is the most gun deaths and gun violence from age 24 to 35? If your logic is sound, then the numbers should go down after 25.. they don't. Everyone wants to look at the age of buying guns as the solution.. It's just a band aid that will just delay the same or similar outcome for many of them. It's not the age of buying guns that is the problem, it's the mentality that surrounds guns in this country.

The very same thing happened when they raised the drinking age to 21.. People believed that it would prevent alcohol related traffic deaths. It didn't, it only delayed them. The very same thing will happen if the legal age to buy a gun is raised to 25. The only difference with guns, is it's not about experience, but the mentality that is built up around guns, and the ability to access them at any age, especially assault weapons, in this country.
www.youthrights.org

Drinking Age: Facts and Resources - NYRA

There’s a lot of misinformation about the drinking age and it can be difficult to know what the facts are. For this reason, we’ve put together a list of talking points and references that you can use whether you are talking to your friends and family or your local legislator. We’ve also...
www.youthrights.org www.youthrights.org
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