Incomprehensible mass shooting happens again

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Zorba

Lifer
Oct 22, 1999
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Amol S.

Platinum Member
Mar 14, 2015
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713
136
I've been saying in this forum for over 10 years along with universal background checks every applicant need a psych evaluation. A trained professional would have spotted this guy in 2 seconds.

Mentally ill and people not mentally mature enough should never be issued gun licenses. ex: anger issues.
Fixed it.
 

Amol S.

Platinum Member
Mar 14, 2015
2,411
713
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This is the best timeline that I have been able to find for the shooting.

A couple of items stand out for me.

At 11:36 AM There was 7 Officers in the hallway. At that point the room should have been breached.
At 12:03 PM There were 19 Officers in the hallway. At that point the room should have been breached.
At 12:15 PM The Border Patrol Tactical Team arrived. At that point the room should have been breached.
At 12:50 PM The room was breached.


11:27 AM – Exterior door where shooter entered was propped open by a teacher.
11:28 AM – Shooter’s vehicle crashes into a ditch.
11:28 AM – Teacher runs to room 132 to retrieve her phone and door remains propped open.
11:30 AM – Teacher calls 911 to report the crash and a man with a gun.
11:31 AM – The suspect reaches last row of vehicles in the school parking lot.
11:31 AM – Shooter approaches school, shooting at the classroom windows as he approaches.
11:31 AM – Patrol vehicles arrive at funeral home.
11:32 AM – Multiple shots fired at the school.
11:33 AM – Shooter enters the school, begins firing into room 111 or 112; at least 100 rounds fired.
11:35 AM – Three Uvalde PD officers enter school through same door shooter entered, quickly followed by three more Uvalde PD and one sheriff’s deputy.
11:36 AM – Three Uvalde PD officers approach the classroom door and two are shot; they fall back.
11:37 AM – Shooter fires 16 rounds.
11:51 AM – Police sergeant arrived.
12:03 PM – Additional officers arrive; “There were as many as 19 officers at that time in that hallway.”
12:03 PM – 911 call from room 112 lasting 1 minute, 23 seconds.
12:10 PM – 911 call from room 112, advised multiple are dead.
12:13 PM – 911 call from room 112.
12:16 PM – 911 call from room 111, caller reporting there are eight to nine students alive.
12:15 PM – Members of BORTAC arrived, along with shields.
12:19 PM – 911 call from room 111, caller hung up when another student told them to.
12:21 PM – Shooter fired again, “It was believed to be at the door.”
12:21 PM – 911 call from room 111.
12:21 PM – Law enforcement moved down the hallway.
12:26 PM – 911 call from student lasting 26 seconds.
12:26 PM – 911 call from the same student, reports that the killer shot the door. Student was told to stay on the line and to be very quiet.
12:46 PM – 911 caller says she can hear police next door.
12:47 PM – Asked 911 to “please send the police now.”
12:50 PM – Officers breached the locked classroom door using keys provided by the janitor.

This is Pete Arredondo, the Uvalde school district police chief who ordered 19 officers outside the classroom to stand down for an hour, waiting for backup & a key. Arredondo only oversees 4 school cops. The Adults present should have tazed his fat ass and taken over.
View attachment 62249
Pete Arredondo: "The only way I would have gone after that kid is if the state of Texas supplied all of its police officers with fully automated AR-15 and RPGs. Only then would I feel safe, by being able to blindly shoot all over the hallway, or just kill the shooter by launching an RPG at the school from outside. That's why I say, the state of Texas needs to provide its officers with more guns. " /S
 

Amol S.

Platinum Member
Mar 14, 2015
2,411
713
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In a active shooter situation you continue pressing until the shooter is eliminated. If the shooter is shooting at cops that means he isn't shooting at the kids.
Isn't shooting at cops in the State of Texas a vaild reason for a cop to claim stand your ground when shooting someone fatally?
 

Amol S.

Platinum Member
Mar 14, 2015
2,411
713
136
This is in no way comparable to Ruby Ridge. The kid drove his car into a ditch and came out with guns heading into a school. Ruby Ridge was some agents going to some dudes home to arrest him.

How do you harden a school other than turning it into a prison? All the schools in my district are completely open air. The only way to harden them is to put a 12' fence around the entire campus. F' that.
The high school back in 2010 -2014, it had an 8 foot fence surounding the entire campus..... but then again..., there was an active railroad track to the south, and an abandoned railway branch to the west.
 
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Amol S.

Platinum Member
Mar 14, 2015
2,411
713
136
This is in no way comparable to Ruby Ridge. The kid drove his car into a ditch and came out with guns heading into a school. Ruby Ridge was some agents going to some dudes home to arrest him.

How do you harden a school other than turning it into a prison? All the schools in my district are completely open air. The only way to harden them is to put a 12' fence around the entire campus. F' that.
The overall situation in NI was far more complex than a relatively straightforward hostage situation.

The political considerations of any action - alongside the attitude of the communities they were operating in - made using the army for policing highly inappropriate. Yet, due to the incumbents, the British government had little real alternative. Their misstep was probably paying too much heed to the sectarian elements within Stormont at the time.



Did you know that the British army was actually welcomed with open arms by the nationalist communities in 1969 as a neutral counterbalance to the outright sectarian RUC?

However later actions by the army - under instruction from the unionist government of the time alienated them from the nationalist people.

Into the vaccume was born the PIRA.




Would using the US army as tactical response units work in US policing? Well, few things to consider:
Pros
- Your perhaps more likely to have soldiers from a black neighbourhood deployed to that neighbourhood from the army than from the police.
- The individuals and units will be of a far higher training standard than the police for violent actions.
- All individuals will be of a far higher physical standard than the average police force
- The army do not have a very large amount of negative baggage associated.

Cons
- The army will not be stopping to collect evidence.
- Only a few units will be well trained in hostage situation. You aren't gonna be able to deploy special forces across the country
- Funding question.
- Its only a matter of time before there is a fuckup - and it can happen through no fault of anyone involved. Intentions are irrelevant. At that point you'll have to defend the army's response - and you'll have to try to keep the army both apolitical and away from the negative connotations the police have gained themselves.
You are comparing wusses afraid of getting a scratch to a suicidal maniac.

IIRC, Sandy Hook was "Hardened" didn't do shit for those kids.
Just an FYI, it took the Texas State police to have the FBI, US military, and SWAT team along their side to carry out what would end up being known as the Waco Seige.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waco_siege
 
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Nov 17, 2019
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Hey GunnerGunnerBoomBooms .....

If your state (you know, state's rights and all) passes a law sayin' ya' gotta give up yer shootin' arns, will you comply with that law ( you know, party of law and order and all)?
 

pmv

Lifer
May 30, 2008
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White people with guns, using white kids as human shields.


Not sure what you are referring to there. I thought many of those who died at Waco, including the children, were not white? Quite a few of them, as I recall, where both black and British.

I mean, I think the strand of Christianity that Koresh's little sect grew out of is majority black, and hence many of his followers were, including a number who came from the UK.


Unless the "white people with guns" you were referring to were the BATF? Not at all clear what point you were making.
 
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pmv

Lifer
May 30, 2008
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My impression of what happened at Waco mostly comes from the BBC documentary on it, and the US state, the BATF and Janet Reno in particular, do not come out of it well as far as I'm concerned. Just because right-wing nutters were angry about it doesn't mean it wasn't an appalling fiasco on the part of the authorities.
 

IronWing

No Lifer
Jul 20, 2001
70,227
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My impression of what happened at Waco mostly comes from the BBC documentary on it, and the US state, the BATF and Janet Reno in particular, do not come out of it well as far as I'm concerned. Just because right-wing nutters were angry about it doesn't mean it wasn't an appalling fiasco on the part of the authorities.
Maybe the Koreshians shouldn’t have murdered four federal agents serving a lawful search warrant.
 
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Zorba

Lifer
Oct 22, 1999
15,252
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Not sure what you are referring to there. I thought many of those who died at Waco, including the children, were not white? Quite a few of them, as I recall, where both black and British.

I mean, I think the strand of Christianity that Koresh's little sect grew out of is majority black, and hence many of his followers were, including a number who came from the UK.


Unless the "white people with guns" you were referring to were the BATF? Not at all clear what point you were making.
I can't find anything on specific demographics, but I am pretty sure all the leaders and most of the followers were white.

It doesn't matter, just a diversion from the actually topic of this thread.
 
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Zorba

Lifer
Oct 22, 1999
15,252
10,840
136
My impression of what happened at Waco mostly comes from the BBC documentary on it, and the US state, the BATF and Janet Reno in particular, do not come out of it well as far as I'm concerned. Just because right-wing nutters were angry about it doesn't mean it wasn't an appalling fiasco on the part of the authorities.
This was really my point, the feds wouldn't have put up with their bullshit for nearly as long if they weren't mostly white and using children as shields. Only white people with guns could kill federal agents and sit it out for another 50 days.

Then people got so upset that a suicidal/homicidal cult of white people committed mass suicide, we now let white people with guns get away with anything they want. See the Bundy Ranch.
 

brycejones

Lifer
Oct 18, 2005
27,671
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This was really my point, the feds wouldn't have put up with their bullshit for nearly as long if they weren't mostly white and using children as shields. Only white people with guns could kill federal agents and sit it out for another 50 days.

Then people got so upset that a suicidal/homicidal cult of white people committed mass suicide, we now let white people with guns get away with anything they want. See the Bundy Ranch.
So much this.
 

HomerJS

Lifer
Feb 6, 2002
36,752
28,943
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This was really my point, the feds wouldn't have put up with their bullshit for nearly as long if they weren't mostly white and using children as shields. Only white people with guns could kill federal agents and sit it out for another 50 days.

Then people got so upset that a suicidal/homicidal cult of white people committed mass suicide, we now let white people with guns get away with anything they want. See the Bundy Ranch.

Remember the Cliven Bundy ranch folk? Conservatives turned them
I to folk hero’s when they all turned their guns on federal agents. Yet let some dark skinned people execute a few smash and grabs and the world comes to an end


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
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pmv

Lifer
May 30, 2008
13,644
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Remember the Cliven Bundy ranch folk? Conservatives turned them
I to folk hero’s when they all turned their guns on federal agents. Yet let some dark skinned people execute a few smash and grabs and the world comes to an end


Weird thing, for what it's worth, Cliven Bundy came out in support of Black Lives Matter and of defunding the police - based on a shared-dislike of cops, I guess. I don't know what I make of it. US politics is beyond my comprehension.


He said in the video that he had considered attending, near his home in Boise, Idaho, “a rally with the Black Lives Matter in support of defunding the police because yes the police need to be defunded.” He decided not to attend the rally, citing concerns about potential violence from fellow “Patriots” who have criticized his stance on the issue.

Anyone who doesn’t understand his support for the movement “must have a problem,” he said.

“You must have a problem in your mind if you think that somehow the Black Lives Matter is more dangerous than the police,” he said. “You must have a problem in your mind if you think that Antifa is the one going to take your freedom.”
 
Nov 17, 2019
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The Cloven guy and the Whacko Klan are not the topics of this thread.


The head school cop that is reported to have been the one to delay response seems to be ripe for prosecution.



'Full of victims': Video appears to show Texas 911 dispatchers relaying information from children in classroom

abcnews.go.com.ico
ABC|5 minutes ago
Video from last week's Texas shooting appears to capture a 911 dispatcher telling officers they were receiving calls from children inside the classroom during the attack.


He had just previously been elected to the town council, but the meeting to install him has been delayed.