Incomprehensible mass shooting happens again

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Pens1566

Lifer
Oct 11, 2005
10,750
6,696
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The more information that comes out, the more I get agitated. All the crap that gun nutters spew has failed these victims. All of it.

Yep. A common sense age requirement would have stopped this. A red flag law would have potentially stopped this. And multiple good guys with guns did not stop this. This one was like an "0 fer" as far as the NRA talking points go.
 

eelw

Diamond Member
Dec 4, 1999
8,282
3,628
136
A red flag law would have potentially stopped this.
This was brought up on CNN yesterday, if one just turned 18, they won’t have a criminal record. Any juvenile record would be under seal.

As for increasing age, why not hold parents accountable between 18-21. Like fine they want to give their son a gun at 18. Make them legally responsible for any acts that get committed by their son with said gun.
 

Lost_in_the_HTTP

Diamond Member
Nov 17, 2019
9,602
5,686
106
The age thing doesn't work either. At that age you can go into the military and get access to real boomboom stuff.
 

Pens1566

Lifer
Oct 11, 2005
10,750
6,696
136
This was brought up on CNN yesterday, if one just turned 18, they won’t have a criminal record. Any juvenile record would be under seal.

As for increasing age, why not hold parents accountable between 18-21. Like fine they want to give their son a gun at 18. Make them legally responsible for any acts that get committed by their son with said gun.

Eh, you can have a criminal record prior to turning 18 and it's not always going to be under seal. Especially for violent/psych stuff which is exactly the area where red flag comes into play.
 

eelw

Diamond Member
Dec 4, 1999
8,282
3,628
136
Eh, you can have a criminal record prior to turning 18 and it's not always going to be under seal. Especially for violent/psych stuff which is exactly the area where red flag comes into play.
Like extreme violence. Killing their baby sitter. Setting their school on fire. But this most recent one, red flag wouldn't have caught him
 

Pens1566

Lifer
Oct 11, 2005
10,750
6,696
136
Like extreme violence. Killing their baby sitter. Setting their school on fire. But this most recent one, red flag wouldn't have caught him

If some of the reports of threats are accurate, it would depend on the specifics of the red flag laws.
 

Zorba

Lifer
Oct 22, 1999
13,626
8,966
136
This was brought up on CNN yesterday, if one just turned 18, they won’t have a criminal record. Any juvenile record would be under seal.

As for increasing age, why not hold parents accountable between 18-21. Like fine they want to give their son a gun at 18. Make them legally responsible for any acts that get committed by their son with said gun.
That wouldn't stop anything. Waiting periods and higher ages, would. Banning new sells would really help.
 
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Feb 4, 2009
33,911
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The military is the definition of “Well Trained”. They are missing the Militia part but I am cool with giving them a pass if an 18 year old owning guns ban happens.
 

Captante

Lifer
Oct 20, 2003
29,866
10,406
136
Per the FBI black men in America are about 2.5 times more likely to be killed by police over the course of their lifetime than white men, while Black women are about 1.4 times more likely to be killed by police than white women.



Incarceration rates by race in the US: (Per the FBI in 2019)

Screen-Shot-2021-10-18-at-2.38.05-PM.png




Total: | White: | Black: |
Murder and non-negligent manslaughter11,0605,0705,660

(Per the US Justice department for 2019)


And all this while representing UNDER 14% of our total population. :oops:

*(I'm purposely avoiding putting ANY "spin" on the above... just numbers)


/thread-hijack ;)
 
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FlawleZ

Member
Oct 13, 2016
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We still restrict alcohol up to age-21. I am comfortable restricting weapon access from 18-21.
It still won't prevent bad people from doing bad things. Just look at the homicide rate in Chicago. It's illegal to own handguns yet that doesn't stop all the murders that happen by them.

When bad people want to do bad things, they don't follow the rules.
 

Homerboy

Lifer
Mar 1, 2000
30,835
4,948
126
The age thing doesn't work either. At that age you can go into the military and get access to real boomboom stuff.

And check out the requirements, retraining and storage of those guns they use in the military. The USMC has stricter laws/rules/regulations/requirements on their guns than are required of the average militia... er... citizen.

EDIT: Oh hell, @purbeast0 posted a link explaining it perfectly
 
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VashHT

Platinum Member
Feb 1, 2007
2,986
748
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It still won't prevent bad people from doing bad things. Just look at the homicide rate in Chicago. It's illegal to own handguns yet that doesn't stop all the murders that happen by them.

When bad people want to do bad things, they don't follow the rules.
This is false, it is not illegal to own handguns in Chicago.
 

K1052

Elite Member
Aug 21, 2003
44,071
28,595
136
It still won't prevent bad people from doing bad things. Just look at the homicide rate in Chicago. It's illegal to own handguns yet that doesn't stop all the murders that happen by them.

When bad people want to do bad things, they don't follow the rules.

The Chicago and Oak Park handgun bans were overturned in 2010.

Next "but Chicago" post awaited.
 
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vi edit

Elite Member
Super Moderator
Oct 28, 1999
62,346
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It still won't prevent bad people from doing bad things. Just look at the homicide rate in Chicago. It's illegal to own handguns yet that doesn't stop all the murders that happen by them.

When bad people want to do bad things, they don't follow the rules.

And that's a bullshit argument. The point isn't fixing things in a single action. It's a series of corrections that added together make it very difficult to purchase and slow down the purchase to allow proper diligence to be done. This is meant to stop an 18 year old that isn't otherwise plugged into a black market from strolling down to the local firearm store, stocking up and executing 20 some 10 year olds a few days/weeks later.

If you don't think that's worth a chance then fuck right off.
 

NWRMidnight

Platinum Member
Jun 18, 2001
2,683
2,283
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Another 18 yr-old threatens to shoot up a school.

Although this time it appears to have been a sick joke, it does bolster the idea that the brains of 18 yr-olds aren't necessarily finished developing and perhaps their decision making capabilities aren't the best.
It really has nothing to do with the brain's development, but more so with society and parental upbringing because today's society/parenting shelter their kids and try to shield them from the real world, rather than teaching them reality. (I know, what's more real than student's getting shot and killed at school). Many young adults are naïve and when some start to get a taste of the real world they have been sheltered from (rejection, disappointment, failures, etc) , they don't know how to handle it and snap. Good decision making comes with upbringing, and continues thru life as you make mistakes, learn from those mistakes, and mature. Heck, we have many middle aged people who still make bad decisions, some are also responsible for mass murders..

Edit: however, according to google: a person's brain doesn't fully develop fully until age 25. But isn't development also contingent of what information is introduced to them and what level one exercises (uses) their brain?
 
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Zorba

Lifer
Oct 22, 1999
13,626
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It really has nothing to do with the brain's development, but more so with society and parental upbringing because today's society/parenting shelter their kids and try to shield them from the real world, rather than teaching them reality. Many young adults are naïve and when some start to get a taste of the real world they have been sheltered from, they don't know how to handle it and snap. Good decision making comes with upbringing, and continues thru life as you make mistakes, learn from those mistakes, and mature. Heck, we have many middle aged people who still make bad decisions, some are also responsible for mass murders..

Edit: however, according to google: a person's brain doesn't fully develop fully until age 25. But isn't development also contingent of what information is introduced to them and what lever one exercises (uses) their brain?
Mass shootings predate the current batch of parents/kids.

In any group of millions of people, you are going to have some crazy people, that's why you shouldn't let them buy weapons of war and open carry them around.
 

Captante

Lifer
Oct 20, 2003
29,866
10,406
136
It really has nothing to do with the brain's development


Wow.... this is one of the sillier comments I've ever seen on P&N and THAT is saying something.

SO you are saying that brain-development (or lack thereof) has no influence on a persons behavior?!

REALLY??? :rolleyes:

What exactly is it that you believe a humans brain does? :p
 

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