In Louisana The Government Teaches Your Kid Religion

[fskimospy]

Of course all the same arguments apply, because all they're doing is describing God, but by a different name (FSM).

lol

Exactly. It's ascribing all the same attributes just with a transparently silly story behind it. You seem to be aware of how fruitless a task it is to try and disprove a god's existence (any God), but that seems to have escaped our good friend buckshot.

Although I don't believe in God I can certainly see why some people might. The idea that you pick one because the others can be logically disproven is complete silliness though.

 

[Retro Rob]

Exactly. It's ascribing all the same attributes just with a transparently silly story behind it.

...but I think I don't see the point, besides making people laugh. It does nothing to disprove anything. And just because something is satirized, that does nothing to address the objective reality of it (or the lack thereof), which I thought was the important thing.

That's why believers like myself aren't at all bothered by the FSM. I find it rather comical.

You seem to be aware of how fruitless a task it is to try and disprove a god's existence (any God), but that seems to have escaped our good friend buckshot.

Its fruitless because it cannot be done, so you're right.

The idea that you pick one because the others can be logically disproven is complete silliness though.

I can agree with this, actually, because all gods are subject to being logically disproven.

 

[fskimospy]

...but I think I don't see the point, besides making people laugh. It does nothing to disprove anything. And just because something is satirized, that does nothing to address the objective reality of it (or the lack thereof), which I thought was the important thing.

That's why believers like myself aren't at all bothered by the FSM. I find it rather comical.

Its fruitless because it cannot be done, so you're right.

I can agree with this, actually, because all gods are subject to being logically disproven.

I would not agree that any God can be logically disproven. It's impossible for all of them. (At least all gods of similar power and scope to the abrahamic god)

As for the utility of the FSM, it's just a thought exercise. It's goal, to me at least, is not to somehow make people stop believing in God, it's to emphasize that religion isn't amenable science, etc. In fact it was originally made to showcase the logical problems with teaching intelligent design.

 

[Retro Rob]

I would not agree that any God can be logically disproven. It's impossible for all of them. (At least all gods of similar power and scope to the abrahamic god)

Fair.

As for the utility of the FSM, it's just a thought exercise. It's goal, to me at least, is not to somehow make people stop believing in God, it's to emphasize that religion isn't amenable science, etc. In fact it was originally made to showcase the logical problems with teaching intelligent design.

If you mean ID in the classroom, yep, I'm on board with that. That's what Church is for.

I guess that why I missed the point of it. I DO know the FSM is highly offensive to the ID movement.

 

[IronWing]

I DO know the FSM is highly offensive to the ID movement.

They need to get on board before they find themselves in hot water.

 

[buckshot24]

I did say beyond any reasonable doubt. These aren't reasonable doubts. These are the ravings of a hack.

1. We have no known origin, just when someone first WROTE about the FSM. Those are totally different things. Saying that the FSM was 'created' at that time would be the same as saying God was created when the bible was written. Did the bible create God? If not, then this guy didn't create the FSM by writing about it.

We do have a known origin whether this hack admits it or not. Not a reasonable doubt here.

2. All living/sentient things that exist are made by other living things, with the exception of God. All spaghetti we know that exists is made by people, with the exception of the FSM. Just as with God it doesn't exist within the same rules of causation as people do.

God is spirit spaghetti is man made, period. Hackery isn't evidence of reasonable doubt.

3. The number of people who BELIEVE something is true is entirely irrelevant to whether or not it IS true.

Nobody to argue with except hacks like you. FSM doesn't exist, nobody thinks it exists, we know this beyond any reasonable doubt. You are a dishonest hack.

4. We can see the FSM influencing the world every day, he just works in mysterious ways. You can see evidence of its noodley design in all things.

Repeat, there are no reasons to believe FSM exists. Lying doesn't make it so.

Seriously, I simply cannot believe that someone who seems as invested in religion as you are has never realized that trying to disprove another 'God' is an entirely silly and pointless exercise. All it does is show you to be a hypocrite who applies different standards to different 'Gods'.

How did you fall into such an easy trap?

It is called reasonable doubt. You can't prove just about anything beyond any and all doubt, outside of mathematics. You hanging around the fringes of absurdity proves nothing except that you're a dishonest hack. Pathetic.

 

[IronWing]

I did say beyond any reasonable doubt. These aren't reasonable doubts. These are the ravings of a hack.
We do have a known origin whether this hack admits it or not. Not a reasonable doubt here.
God is spirit spaghetti is man made, period. Hackery isn't evidence of reasonable doubt.
Nobody to argue with except hacks like you. FSM doesn't exist, nobody thinks it exists, we know this beyond any reasonable doubt. You are a dishonest hack.
Repeat, there are no reasons to believe FSM exists. Lying doesn't make it so.
It is called reasonable doubt. You can't prove just about anything beyond any and all doubt, outside of mathematics. You hanging around the fringes of absurdity proves nothing except that you're a dishonest hack. Pathetic.

Now that his tantrum is over, maybe buckshot24 will quit being intellectually lazy and actually try to disprove the existence of the FSM.

 

[buckshot24]

The idea that you pick one because the others can be logically disproven is complete silliness though.

Who is doing this?

 

[realibrad]

Fair.



If you mean ID in the classroom, yep, I'm on board with that. That's what Church is for.

I guess that why I missed the point of it. I DO know the FSM is highly offensive to the ID movement.

Its offensive to the ID movement, because what you are saying is that God is only a belief, and cannot be proven. The ID movement started as a way to get people to think that God could be proven and thus taught in the classroom. Arguing against their argument is inherently offensive.

Look at how Buck is now reacting. He baited everyone else to insult him, and once they did he dismissed them. I held out, and now he is the one insulting me. ID people have an agenda and when you argue against them, you are holding them back from their goal.

 

[Retro Rob]

Its offensive to the ID movement, because what you are saying is that God is only a belief, and cannot be proven.

EDIT:

I got you, as I misunderstood your post initially.

 

[fskimospy]

I did say beyond any reasonable doubt. These aren't reasonable doubts. These are the ravings of a hack.
We do have a known origin whether this hack admits it or not. Not a reasonable doubt here.

Simply repeating yourself does not make your argument any more logical. The origin of the FSM is known to the exact same extent as the origin of the Abrahamic god. Exactly.

God is spirit spaghetti is man made, period. Hackery isn't evidence of reasonable doubt.

Unfounded assertion. Show me your evidence for how you determined the composition of God.

Nobody to argue with except hacks like you. FSM doesn't exist, nobody thinks it exists, we know this beyond any reasonable doubt. You are a dishonest hack.

Again, the number of people who believe something is irrelevant as to whether or not it is true. Saying something is false because nobody believes it is a logical fallacy.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argumentum_ad_populum

Repeat, there are no reasons to believe FSM exists. Lying doesn't make it so.

There are exactly as many reasons to believe the FSM exists as the Christian God. Every reason you gave relies on logical fallacies or unfounded assumptions.

It is called reasonable doubt. You can't prove just about anything beyond any and all doubt, outside of mathematics. You hanging around the fringes of absurdity proves nothing except that you're a dishonest hack. Pathetic.

You seem to get very angry as soon as people start making you think uncomfortable thoughts. You're the person who said the FSM could be disproven beyond a reasonable doubt, so prove your case. No logical fallacies or statements of fact without evidence allowed.

Prove. Your. Case.

 

[buckshot24]

Look at how Buck is now reacting. He baited everyone else to insult him, and once they did he dismissed them. I held out, and now he is the one insulting me. ID people have an agenda and when you argue against them, you are holding them back from their goal.

Calling you incompetent isn't an insult but the truth. You can't do what you thought you could do in a lab. It's ok, now you know. Lots of people are incompetent about these things. And your story of how things went down are simply lies. These aren't insults.

 

[buckshot24]

I guess that why I missed the point of it. I DO know the FSM is highly offensive to the ID movement.

I don't think it's an insult at all and I'm not sure the ID movement is insulted by this joke either.

 

[Retro Rob]

I don't think it's an insult at all and I'm not sure the ID movement is insulted by this joke either.

It offends what a person believes is true and factual, because they're comparing it to something completely arbitrary and silly.

To be honest, initially, I hated that the FSM was compared to the God I believe in, but I realized that making that comparison doesn't falsify my beliefs, so from then on, I began laughing myself.

The more you laugh WITH them, the less they have to offend you with.

 

[realibrad]

Calling you incompetent isn't an insult but the truth. You can't do what you thought you could do in a lab. It's ok, now you know. Lots of people are incompetent about these things. And your story of how things went down are simply lies. These aren't insults.

Oh, so calling someone incompetent is not an insult. Well, then your mother is an incompetent parent.

Also, I am not sure why you are still on that lab thing. I talk about a different part of the post, and you laser in on something I did not say. It is really weird.

So, now I am an incompetent liar, but, its not an insult. I think one of the biggest problems I had with you was that you misunderstand the words you use. It does defend you against logic, as its almost impossible to decode you.

 

[realibrad]

It offends what a person believes is true and factual, because they're comparing it to something completely arbitrary and silly.

To be honest, initially, I hated that the FSM was compared to the God I believe in, but I realized that making that comparison doesn't falsify my beliefs, so from then on, I began laughing myself.

The more you laugh WITH them, the less they have to offend you with.

People like to be offensive. I find offensive things very funny sometimes. Offense can only be taken though. If I were to call Rob X, and Rob did not care what I though of him, then he would not be offended. No matter what I told Rob I though of him, he would not care and thus not be offended. It would be different if I were saying my opinion and it got others to do something, but, in terms of the person, you cant be offended if you dont care.

Some use FSM as a way to be offensive, but not all. I use it as an example of the logic I use. It establishes a clear point.

 

[Bowfinger]

[ ... ]
Also, I am not sure why you are still on that lab thing. I talk about a different part of the post, and you laser in on something I did not say. It is really weird. ...

It's not weird at all. Diversions are a common tactic used by people who are losing the debate. The key to countering them is ignoring them, and to continue reiterating the points he's trying to evade.

 

[buckshot24]

Oh, so calling someone incompetent is not an insult. Well, then your mother is an incompetent parent.

Quit being childish and own your incompetence. You said some things that were and are simply impossible.

Also, I am not sure why you are still on that lab thing. I talk about a different part of the post, and you laser in on something I did not say. It is really weird.

No you didn't.

So, now I am an incompetent liar, but, its not an insult.

Right. You are incompetent in what can be accomplished in the lab and you told lies in retelling our interactions. These are facts. Darwin33 is in your same boat, enjoy the company (.

I think one of the biggest problems I had with you was that you misunderstand the words you use. It does defend you against logic, as its almost impossible to decode you.

Maybe it was my fault. But you weren't offering anything but fluff and fairy tales that relied on your blind faith in the power of mutation and selection to make it all work. The inculcated can't really see it when they are doing it. Maybe one day when you get older you'll see things more clearly.

 

[Sheik Yerbouti]

wow, bucky is still going at it. so glad I don't have to walk around this world living in his brain. sweet baby jebus that would be stupefyingly painful.

 

[buckshot24]

It offends what a person believes is true and factual, because they're comparing it to something completely arbitrary and silly.

To be honest, initially, I hated that the FSM was compared to the God I believe in, but I realized that making that comparison doesn't falsify my beliefs, so from then on, I began laughing myself.

The more you laugh WITH them, the less they have to offend you with.

I think all ID proponents think its a joke and don't take it seriously. To me, when somebody starts talking about FSM I know they aren't in a position to be reasoned with.

 

[fskimospy]

I think all ID proponents think its a joke and don't take it seriously. To me, when somebody starts talking about FSM I know they aren't in a position to be reasoned with.

"I have no way to counter this argument."

 

[waggy]

I think all ID proponents think its a joke and don't take it seriously. To me, when somebody starts talking about FSM I know they aren't in a position to be reasoned with.

Pot meet kettle...

 

[buckshot24]

Pot meet kettle...

I am not in a position to believe random genetic copying mistakes and selection built our brains, 100% correct. Showing a gene duplication isn't going to convince me otherwise or telling fairy tales about eye evolution either.

 

[IronWing]

I am not in a position to believe random genetic copying mistakes and selection built our brains, 100% correct. Showing a gene duplication isn't going to convince me otherwise or telling fairy tales about eye evolution either.

Finnegan, begin again.

 

[realibrad]

Quit being childish and own your incompetence. You said some things that were and are simply impossible.
No you didn't.
Right. You are incompetent in what can be accomplished in the lab and you told lies in retelling our interactions. These are facts. Darwin33 is in your same boat, enjoy the company (.
Maybe it was my fault. But you weren't offering anything but fluff and fairy tales that relied on your blind faith in the power of mutation and selection to make it all work. The inculcated can't really see it when they are doing it. Maybe one day when you get older you'll see things more clearly.

Yeah, so apparently linking peer reviewed research papers is giving you lying fluff. How incompetent of me.

You sure seem to be acting the same what as those you ignored.