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daveymark

Lifer
Sep 15, 2003
10,573
1
0
Originally posted by: Skoorb
I find a lot of people on AT use logic and science as their God, despite it never claiming it should be received as such and certainly has never proven it's going to lead to anything beyond their rot when they die. It's a bit sad; I prefer to have the hope, if not belief, that there is something more than what a human mind can distil down with an equation.

Many people change their perceptions as they age; some theologians will become atheists or the opposite as they age.


Can you please state an example of some statements made by someone which convinces you that logic/science is their god?
 

Sea Moose

Diamond Member
May 12, 2009
6,933
7
76
Originally posted by: ironwing
Honestly imagine my sock puppet. This sock puppet is a sincere spirit. My sock puppet has heartfelt feelings and you can talk with him. My sock puppet agrees with everything you think. My sock puppet is always right. The sock puppet is exact and unchanging. My sock puppet is everything that is right with this world. Everything said by my sock puppet is true. Everything my sock puppet ever promised is true. My sock puppet, by definition, is love.

Imagine that my sock puppet literally came to life as a real boy. A real boy who could have acceptably had or done anything he wanted. A proper boy that let inhabitants of this earth murder him so those murderers could live forever. A real boy who, in his being my sock puppet, was risen from the grave three days later. A real boy who accurately promised that if we trust in him, we are already saved.

Would you love my sock puppet? Would you love this real boy, would you Geppetto?

Are you sure you are correct?

Dont fap in your sock puppet.
 

zerocool84

Lifer
Nov 11, 2004
36,041
472
126
Originally posted by: DixyCrat
Sin is not following what God would have you do. If you always follow what God has you do until the point that you die then you have gone without sin.

But why does God allow us to be born into sin? That makes no sense at all.
 

CoinOperatedBoy

Golden Member
Dec 11, 2008
1,809
0
76
Originally posted by: DixyCrat
How has God revealed himself to you and how might non-believers reproduce your experience so that they might be convinced?
Honestly praying to God to reveal himself to you will lead to God revealing himself to you.

Be specific.
 
Nov 29, 2006
15,813
4,339
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Originally posted by: DixyCrat
It's impossible for me to word a response without losing it and venting incoherently about everything that I find wrong about religion and how I fail to see any substance in the OP, so I will refrain from posting anything more.
I think that if more people were as honest and considerate as you this would have been a much more common response.

Yes. What does that have to do with sin? Being the last thing you ever do does not imbue it with special power over the moral status of anyone except yourself, and in your case it only eliminates you as a moral agent.
Sin is not following what God would have you do. If you always follow what God has you do until the point that you die then you have gone without sin.

This shows that a life without sin is possible.

Being possible it shows that the rest of us are flawed for not doing the same but also gives us an example of a perfect life.

So at the same time every other human is not worth saving, this one human is worth saving, so every human that conforms to the spirit of the one human worth saving is, by consequence, saved.

(I just made that up.. maybe.. I don't know.. I can't tell you any bible verse that says as much, but its what makes sense to me... if it doesn't make sense to you then I'll think about why it doesn't and re-think my position)

Didnt Jesus die for our sins? If so, sin away. He took care of it. :p
 

Sea Moose

Diamond Member
May 12, 2009
6,933
7
76
Dixycat you are seriously on drugs.

/rant


If there was an all powerful being that controlled the universe, dont you think it would become corrupt with power by now. I am sure smarter people, like godlessastronomer would know some big fancy word for this. Why dont you think when you say "god give me a sign" nothing happens. Homer Simpson made this funny, by saying "God if you want me to eat this cookie, give me no sign" This concept of an all powerful god is a man made invention.

The reality, i will say that again to make sure you understand, THE REALITY is, that gods were used to explain unknown phenomena by early man. Why do you think that a sun god is a recurring god over many different religions? Even your Jesus's yellow halo can be traced back to sun gun related origins. Science is going to take over religion as we now move into an era that we can explain how the universe works with a greater degree to early man. Fire is a chemical reaction and the sun is a big fusion reaction.

I would much rather put "faith" into pfizer a company that has saved many many many more lives through the power of medical science than your so called god, who, if he was as powerful as you fap over, would not allow cancer, aids , poverty , expensive sound cards , global warming..... etc etc etc

If you need your "faith" to get you through your day then thats cool. To get through my day i have pictures of my gf poking out from sun visor. The problem i have is with people that abuse peoples faith for power. Religion is about instilling fear in the masses and therefore an early method of controlling the masses.

When you die, you get buried into the ground and you rot. The only way you survive is through your children. your dna is carried on. Thats it

I could continue this rant, but there are other threads that require neffing.

Seamoose



your fucking god would not have allowed my nana to die, who was the kindest sweetest lady on the planet. By allowing nice people to die of horrible diseases your god is in my opinion evil.
 

CoinOperatedBoy

Golden Member
Dec 11, 2008
1,809
0
76
All the people trying to poke holes in specific beliefs about Jesus, original sin, God's omniscience, etc. aren't going to get anywhere. It's all elaborately constructed to control and tax the population, and religions breed trolls like DixyCrat to "evangelize" by trolling for desperate suckers. You can fray the edges of their claims, but the effort isn't worth it because it will always come down to a core of "I believe, so there."
 

Sea Moose

Diamond Member
May 12, 2009
6,933
7
76
Originally posted by: CoinOperatedBoy
All the people trying to poke holes in specific beliefs about Jesus, original sin, God's omniscience, etc. aren't going to get anywhere. It's all elaborately constructed to control and tax the population, and religions breed trolls like DixyCrat to "evangelize" by trolling for desperate suckers. You can fray the edges of their claims, but the effort isn't worth it because it will always come down to a core of "I believe, so there."

you are frustratingly right. Religious suckers are more stubborn than a pregnant donkey.

 

DrPizza

Administrator Elite Member Goat Whisperer
Mar 5, 2001
49,601
167
111
www.slatebrookfarm.com
Originally posted by: Sea Moose
Originally posted by: CoinOperatedBoy
All the people trying to poke holes in specific beliefs about Jesus, original sin, God's omniscience, etc. aren't going to get anywhere. It's all elaborately constructed to control and tax the population, and religions breed trolls like DixyCrat to "evangelize" by trolling for desperate suckers. You can fray the edges of their claims, but the effort isn't worth it because it will always come down to a core of "I believe, so there."

you are frustratingly right. Religious suckers are more stubborn than a pregnant donkey.

He's not quite accurate though. It's "I have faith that God exists, because 'Faith, which is a gift from God, given by grace,' so there."

 

Jeff7

Lifer
Jan 4, 2001
41,596
19
81
Originally posted by: DixyCrat
Sin is not following what God would have you do. If you always follow what God has you do until the point that you die then you have gone without sin.

This shows that a life without sin is possible.
*phew*
Well I'm glad it's that easy, since everyone is in perfect agreement on what God wants for everyone.



Originally posted by: DixyCrat
without the possibility of those good things making wrong decisions their would be a world in which wrong actions were impossible, and in which, therefore, freedom of the will would be void; if the principle were carried out to its logical conclusion, evil thoughts would be impossible, for the cerebral matter which we use in thinking would refuse its task when we attempted to frame them.

For all we know evil is limited greatly and our ability to conceive of what evil does exist is only that which God has allowed for our existence.

God thought of humans and for a being of pure will thought and creation are one. God could have then eliminated his creation but, instead, has done everything he can to fix it up as well as can be.

Someday all this evil will be destroyed and everyone of us will be saved through Jesus; God loves us and has saved us all. But those moments we all have in Christ will be the ones that constitute the 'us' that is saved. This is why living humbly submitted to Christ is so important.
....so...evil is necessary to exist to show us that good is good.
But Jesus will ride in on his magic Corvette and destroy all evil.
:confused:
Drat, there goes free will.



Originally posted by: Skoorb
I find a lot of people on AT use logic and science as their God, despite it never claiming it should be received as such and certainly has never proven it's going to lead to anything beyond their rot when they die. It's a bit sad; I prefer to have the hope, if not belief, that there is something more than what a human mind can distil down with an equation.

Many people change their perceptions as they age; some theologians will become atheists or the opposite as they age.
I can hope and believe that my microwave will some day begin to spontaneously birth fresh-cooked chickens.
Sure it'd be nice, but I also believe it to be pretty damned unlikely.



Originally posted by: DrPizza
Originally posted by: Sea Moose
Originally posted by: CoinOperatedBoy
All the people trying to poke holes in specific beliefs about Jesus, original sin, God's omniscience, etc. aren't going to get anywhere. It's all elaborately constructed to control and tax the population, and religions breed trolls like DixyCrat to "evangelize" by trolling for desperate suckers. You can fray the edges of their claims, but the effort isn't worth it because it will always come down to a core of "I believe, so there."

you are frustratingly right. Religious suckers are more stubborn than a pregnant donkey.

He's not quite accurate though. It's "I have faith that God exists, because 'Faith, which is a gift from God, given by grace,' so there."
"Circular logic is also a gift from God, therefore I can use it. Oh, and he says it's not called 'circular logic' anymore. He says to call it 'keeping an open mind.'"

It's a mental virus that has exceptional self-protection measures built in. Don't question any of it either, because that's bad, and God'll whoop yo' ass. Oh, and don't look for evidence either. God runs on a Faith Capacitor, or at least he believes he does, since he's never checked it out. :p


 

Sea Moose

Diamond Member
May 12, 2009
6,933
7
76
Originally posted by: DrPizza
Originally posted by: Sea Moose
Originally posted by: CoinOperatedBoy
All the people trying to poke holes in specific beliefs about Jesus, original sin, God's omniscience, etc. aren't going to get anywhere. It's all elaborately constructed to control and tax the population, and religions breed trolls like DixyCrat to "evangelize" by trolling for desperate suckers. You can fray the edges of their claims, but the effort isn't worth it because it will always come down to a core of "I believe, so there."

you are frustratingly right. Religious suckers are more stubborn than a pregnant donkey.

He's not quite accurate though. It's "I have faith that God exists, because 'Faith, which is a gift from God, given by grace,' so there."

there is stuff i would like to say, but your a senior mod so i choose not tempt your bannage trigger finger
 

Jeff7

Lifer
Jan 4, 2001
41,596
19
81
Originally posted by: Sea Moose
there is stuff i would like to say, but your a senior mod so i choose not tempt your bannage trigger finger
I think you misread something; DrPizza and you seem to sit on the same side of this particular issue's fence.



 

Sea Moose

Diamond Member
May 12, 2009
6,933
7
76
Originally posted by: Jeff7
Originally posted by: Sea Moose
there is stuff i would like to say, but your a senior mod so i choose not tempt your bannage trigger finger
I think you misread something; DrPizza and you seem to sit on the same side of this particular issue's fence.

yeah i must have misread.

but moderators are gods on ATOT
 

meltdown75

Lifer
Nov 17, 2004
37,548
7
81
Originally posted by: Sea Moose
there is stuff i would like to say, but your a senior mod so i choose not tempt your bannage trigger finger
this is an open forum. it doesn't matter that he's a mod, he's just some dude on the internet like yourself. speak your mind, and don't pull any punches with the mods and/or elites. what's the worst they can do? ban you? who cares.
 

Dr. Zaus

Lifer
Oct 16, 2008
11,764
347
126
Originally posted by: CoinOperatedBoy
Originally posted by: DixyCrat
How has God revealed himself to you and how might non-believers reproduce your experience so that they might be convinced?
Honestly praying to God to reveal himself to you will lead to God revealing himself to you.

Be specific.

get a quite place about you.
close your eyes.
think "God, i doubt your existence, but I ask that you show me you exist, I ask that you help me to see it when you show me and I ask that you make it so that I do belie in your existence"

Why dont you think when you say "god give me a sign" nothing happens.
If you would honestly pray as outlined above and then report back that nothing happened it would shake my faith.
 
S

SlitheryDee

Originally posted by: DixyCrat
Originally posted by: CoinOperatedBoy
Originally posted by: DixyCrat
How has God revealed himself to you and how might non-believers reproduce your experience so that they might be convinced?
Honestly praying to God to reveal himself to you will lead to God revealing himself to you.

Be specific.

get a quite place about you.
close your eyes.
think "God, i doubt your existence, but I ask that you show me you exist, I ask that you help me to see it when you show me and I ask that you make it so that I do belie in your existence"

Why dont you think when you say "god give me a sign" nothing happens.

If you would honestly pray as outlined above and then report back that nothing happened it would shake my faith.

I did that many times during my teens. I really listened hard for something that wasn't a product of my own imagination and desire to believe. Nothing happened. If there's a god, he doesn't answer such requests.
 

Sea Moose

Diamond Member
May 12, 2009
6,933
7
76
Originally posted by: SlitheryDee
Originally posted by: DixyCrat
Originally posted by: CoinOperatedBoy
Originally posted by: DixyCrat
How has God revealed himself to you and how might non-believers reproduce your experience so that they might be convinced?
Honestly praying to God to reveal himself to you will lead to God revealing himself to you.

Be specific.

get a quite place about you.
close your eyes.
think "God, i doubt your existence, but I ask that you show me you exist, I ask that you help me to see it when you show me and I ask that you make it so that I do belie in your existence"

Why dont you think when you say "god give me a sign" nothing happens.

If you would honestly pray as outlined above and then report back that nothing happened it would shake my faith.

I did that many times during my teens. I really listened hard for something that wasn't a product of my own imagination and desire to believe. Nothing happened. If there's a god, he doesn't answer such requests.

perhaps his internet connection is down?
 

Safeway

Lifer
Jun 22, 2004
12,075
11
81
Originally posted by: DixyCrat
If you would honestly pray as outlined above and then report back that nothing happened it would shake my faith.

Consider your faith duly shaken.
 

CoinOperatedBoy

Golden Member
Dec 11, 2008
1,809
0
76
Originally posted by: Safeway
Originally posted by: DixyCrat
If you would honestly pray as outlined above and then report back that nothing happened it would shake my faith.

Consider your faith duly shaken.

The easy explanation is that obviously you did something wrong or weren't open enough to the results. It's a rabbit hole with traps down every path.
 

Fritzo

Lifer
Jan 3, 2001
41,920
2,161
126
Originally posted by: CoinOperatedBoy
Originally posted by: Safeway
Originally posted by: DixyCrat
If you would honestly pray as outlined above and then report back that nothing happened it would shake my faith.

Consider your faith duly shaken.

The easy explanation is that obviously you did something wrong or weren't open enough to the results. It's a rabbit hole with traps down every path.

I had the same results. However, I did sign a contract earlier this year with some guy wearing an overcoat, dark sunglasses, and large hat over on Crossroads Blvd. He must have worked in the sun at a refinery or something because WOW was his skin red, and he smelled like sulphur to high heaven.

Anyway, all I had to do was sign a piece of paper to make sure the donut shop always had my favorite kind of donut in stock---sure enough it worked!!! Highly recommended.
 

AstroManLuca

Lifer
Jun 24, 2004
15,628
5
81
Hey DixyCrat, one time I actually did honestly pray to God. It was maybe four years ago, I think. Don't remember exactly but I was working in a library at the time and I had been talking to a religious guy for the past couple weeks, asking him about Christianity and so on. So I prayed something to God about being confused and could you please give me a sign.

Guess what? Absolutely nothing happened at all. Good things and bad things have happened in my life since then, and they've pretty much averaged out. I told the Christian guy who had been talking to me about it that pretty much all of Christianity is totally meaningless to me and that it just doesn't make any sense at all, and at first he talked about faith or something (pretty much just the typical circular argument most Christians use), then tried to tell me he used to be like me (doubt it; he's extremely religious and I am not and never will be), but within a couple days he had completely dropped the subject and now we only talk about it when I bring it up (which I don't). He's a good guy otherwise and certainly not one of those guys who gives Christians a bad name.
 

CrackRabbit

Lifer
Mar 30, 2001
16,642
62
91
Originally posted by: Safeway
Originally posted by: DixyCrat
If you would honestly pray as outlined above and then report back that nothing happened it would shake my faith.

Consider your faith duly shaken.

I prefer my faith stirred, it distributes the flavor more evenly.
 

Dr. Zaus

Lifer
Oct 16, 2008
11,764
347
126
Originally posted by: AstroManLuca
Hey DixyCrat, one time I actually did honestly pray to God. It was maybe four years ago, I think. Don't remember exactly but I was working in a library at the time and I had been talking to a religious guy for the past couple weeks, asking him about Christianity and so on. So I prayed something to God about being confused and could you please give me a sign.

Guess what? Absolutely nothing happened at all. Good things and bad things have happened in my life since then, and they've pretty much averaged out. I told the Christian guy who had been talking to me about it that pretty much all of Christianity is totally meaningless to me and that it just doesn't make any sense at all, and at first he talked about faith or something (pretty much just the typical circular argument most Christians use), then tried to tell me he used to be like me (doubt it; he's extremely religious and I am not and never will be), but within a couple days he had completely dropped the subject and now we only talk about it when I bring it up (which I don't). He's a good guy otherwise and certainly not one of those guys who gives Christians a bad name.

I guess I'm wrong.