surfsatwerk
Lifer
- Mar 6, 2008
- 10,110
- 5
- 81
zerocool84
Lifer
- Nov 11, 2004
- 36,041
- 472
- 126
I could never love someone that allows people to murder innocent kids and allows children to be raped and says it's free will but then takes all the credit when something good happens.
What was it that people say about stones and glass houses?
Remember, I find your faith to be just as crazy and insane as you find the Mormon faith, and Scientology, and those that believe the moon landing was faked. Hopefully that will change YOUR world view.
Atomic Playboy
Lifer
- Feb 6, 2007
- 16,432
- 1
- 81
This is the best post in this thread. Others were more hilarious, including some by the OP himself, but this is the long and short of the whole thing. You can't ask someone to envision something that they knowingly think is fantasy and then ask "see, why don't you believe in that?" That's not an argument, it's complete nonsense.
And that's not even to mention that the OP comes across as the most arrogant douchebag on the planet. You claim that true believers are the most humble people (which is an ironic claim on its face, since arguing over who is the most humble is an act inherently devoid of humility), you call people who don't believe as you do ass-hats, you ignore every religion except the Judeochristian pantheon, and you argue that people need to see things from your side without taking the time yourself to see any viewpoint except the one you espouse. You are the epitome of all that is wrong with organized religion. You try to come in as the voice of reason, but all you do is insult the viewpoint of anyone who doesn't think as you do. I think the world will be better off when you and your ilk ascend to heaven and stop spewing your fetid shit in this plane of existence.
God must have decided what was necessary to get rid of sin since he makes all the rules. Why did he decide on that specific thing? What is it about death that cures sin? What is the exact mechanism by which a person (Jesus in this case) dying expunges sin? Why not make it every time you tickle a puppy until it vomits, the world is cleaned of all sin? Why not just forgive sin with nothing required at all?
I would have a deep suspicion of this God who unnecessarily complicates matters by killing himself, apparently for his own amusement, and arbitrarily declares that his death means something that would not logically follow from any death. That something being the forgiveness for transgressions against rules that he made up himself, also apparently for his own amusement. I would be too afraid of him to love him. The combination of being omnipotent and batshit crazy makes him more dangerous than a baboon with a tactical nuke.
I would have a deep suspicion of this God who unnecessarily complicates matters by killing himself, apparently for his own amusement, and arbitrarily declares that his death means something that would not logically follow from any death. That something being the forgiveness for transgressions against rules that he made up himself, also apparently for his own amusement. I would be too afraid of him to love him. The combination of being omnipotent and batshit crazy makes him more dangerous than a baboon with a tactical nuke.
A mob of people murder a guy. Same mob makes up a story how that man was special and that he really forgave them (and was really necessary). Now the mob doesn't feel bad about murdering a man.
Jeff7
Lifer
- Jan 4, 2001
- 41,596
- 19
- 81
But if we come to the wrong conclusion, the sentence is eternal damnation.
Learn from your mistakes - in Hell.
More like 1984's "doublethink" - the ability to hold two contradictory ideas in one's mind at once, yet be entirely unable to see the contradiction.
HardcoreRobot
Lifer
- Nov 7, 2000
- 16,403
- 3
- 81
God as known by man cannot exist.
There may be an explanation for everything, which the pious may call 'god', but it really is irrelevant to my brief and insignificant life. In fact, I already regret wasting precious seconds here reading that drivel.
There may be an explanation for everything, which the pious may call 'god', but it really is irrelevant to my brief and insignificant life. In fact, I already regret wasting precious seconds here reading that drivel.
- Oct 16, 2008
- 11,764
- 347
- 126
I'll cut the crap then.
1.) God setup a system where we can save ourselves
2.) We failed at it
3.) God worked in that system and didn't fail
(at this point we're all screwed right?)
4.) Instead of taking that experience as proof everyone should now die God made it a way for everyone to be save.
How does God becoming Man save us all from death through resurrection... I'm not God and I don't know. All I do know is that I've had a life changing relationship with God and I believe.
HardcoreRobot
Lifer
- Nov 7, 2000
- 16,403
- 3
- 81
seriously? im relieved to know i will never die. like a vampire. which god invented, right after genocide and downs syndrome.
Gibsons
Lifer
- Aug 14, 2001
- 12,530
- 35
- 91
Okay.
He did a bad job of making us.
Well, duh, he's god.
huh? why? Cus god hates us for sucking? Maybe he's mad at himself for making something so flawed.
wut?
Me either.
Some people have had life changing experiences with lobotomies. That doesn't mean they know anything.
CoinOperatedBoy
Golden Member
- Dec 11, 2008
- 1,809
- 0
- 76
This is what these arguments always come down to -- a complete lack of reasonable or provable basis, just personal testament. How do you know you have a "relationship with God"? How has God revealed himself to you and how might non-believers reproduce your experience so that they might be convinced?
Fritzo
Lifer
- Jan 3, 2001
- 41,920
- 2,161
- 126
Why did he even have to set up a complicated system, and why was it so vague? What exactly does a person dying have to do with the salvation of others?
Did he die to save 1000's of people from execution? No. Did he die to prevent a war? No. Did he die because some supervillian had a heat ray pointed at Jureselem and was going to vaporize it unless he got a human sacrifice? No.
He DID die because he was viewed as a political activist and a threat to government....kind of like an ancient Al Gore.
videogames101
Diamond Member
- Aug 24, 2005
- 6,783
- 27
- 91
Assuming god exists, I'm going to assume that in this hypothetical world god created the universe, and I present the problem of evil.
Jeff7
Lifer
- Jan 4, 2001
- 41,596
- 19
- 81
Generic response that I've usually heard:
God created evil so that he could do us the favor of showing us just how gosh-darned amazing "good" is. You know, because the people he created are too stupid to figure out anything without some sense of contrast.
My response to that:
:laugh:Are you sure you are? You believe you are correct just as us athiest/agnostics believe we are correct. Do you have physical scientific proof you are correct? Can you show us? If not you should also go believe in Santa and the Easter Bunny. I heard they are cool guys.
StageLeft
No Lifer
- Sep 29, 2000
- 70,150
- 5
- 0
I find a lot of people on AT use logic and science as their God, despite it never claiming it should be received as such and certainly has never proven it's going to lead to anything beyond their rot when they die. It's a bit sad; I prefer to have the hope, if not belief, that there is something more than what a human mind can distil down with an equation.
Many people change their perceptions as they age; some theologians will become atheists or the opposite as they age.
Many people change their perceptions as they age; some theologians will become atheists or the opposite as they age.
- Oct 16, 2008
- 11,764
- 347
- 126
Honestly praying to God to reveal himself to you will lead to God revealing himself to you.
huh? I didn't say anything bad about Mormons; just observed, in the context of the sentence, that they had a good number more books.
It's interesting that you think that's what I did, a re-reading will give you better context; There was no negative implication in that statement.
Just because someone is the "most" does not mean that everyone less is "less than", there is such a thing as equal.
Not for dis-beliving but, rather, for being rude and, as can be seen in many posts, not taking a moment to consider anther's opinion when asked to do so.
How does a loving all-mighty creator hurt you?
how so?
where? how? why do you say that? please, support your argument.
when? how?
what? I talked about a loving God, how does this hurt you?
Have you read the bible? Do you believe that is what it says?
being God in man he could have failed.
God doesn't hate 'sucking' he just doesn't have it around him... to do so would defy what God is... the anti-suck.
If something has a useful good outcome then it is useful and good.
Faith, which is a gift from God, given by grace.
If someone ain't got it it's not something I can judge anyone for.
Death is the final submission.
without the possibility of those good things making wrong decisions their would be a world in which wrong actions were impossible, and in which, therefore, freedom of the will would be void; if the principle were carried out to its logical conclusion, evil thoughts would be impossible, for the cerebral matter which we use in thinking would refuse its task when we attempted to frame them.
For all we know evil is limited greatly and our ability to conceive of what evil does exist is only that which God has allowed for our existence.
God thought of humans and for a being of pure will thought and creation are one. God could have then eliminated his creation but, instead, has done everything he can to fix it up as well as can be.
Someday all this evil will be destroyed and everyone of us will be saved through Jesus; God loves us and has saved us all. But those moments we all have in Christ will be the ones that constitute the 'us' that is saved. This is why living humbly submitted to Christ is so important.
It's impossible for me to word a response without losing it and venting incoherently about everything that I find wrong about religion and how I fail to see any substance in the OP, so I will refrain from posting anything more.
Yes. What does that have to do with sin? Being the last thing you ever do does not imbue it with special power over the moral status of anyone except yourself, and in your case it only eliminates you as a moral agent. There is no inherent relationship between death and atonement.
- Oct 16, 2008
- 11,764
- 347
- 126
I think that if more people were as honest and considerate as you this would have been a much more common response.
Sin is not following what God would have you do. If you always follow what God has you do until the point that you die then you have gone without sin.
This shows that a life without sin is possible.
Being possible it shows that the rest of us are flawed for not doing the same but also gives us an example of a perfect life.
So at the same time every other human is not worth saving, this one human is worth saving, so every human that conforms to the spirit of the one human worth saving is, by consequence, saved.
(I just made that up.. maybe.. I don't know.. I can't tell you any bible verse that says as much, but its what makes sense to me... if it doesn't make sense to you then I'll think about why it doesn't and re-think my position)
It was hard to find others around to point my fingers at
Which made me realize the truth
The biggest suppressor could be your own ego lookin' for an excuse
To plant roots, in a field of self-sorrow
To sprout and follow the first thing you feel
Nourishes your hunger to be respected, it gets hectic
And when I'm watchin' the news, and my daughter walks in
And choose to ask, 'Why were all those people on the floor
Sleepin', covered in red?' I told her
That they were lookin' for God, but found religion instead
Which made me realize the truth
The biggest suppressor could be your own ego lookin' for an excuse
To plant roots, in a field of self-sorrow
To sprout and follow the first thing you feel
Nourishes your hunger to be respected, it gets hectic
And when I'm watchin' the news, and my daughter walks in
And choose to ask, 'Why were all those people on the floor
Sleepin', covered in red?' I told her
That they were lookin' for God, but found religion instead
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