I'm no Nostradamus but...

[FrustratedUser]

Originally posted by: apologetic
Everywhere I go people seem to think that smoking is the next great Satan

Congrats to the anti-tobacco ad campaigns, you've done it!!!!

Us smokers are a dying breed, so smoke'em if you got'em

*lights one up*

 

[CKent]

Whether secondhand smoke is dangerous or not, smoking indoors is toeing the line of how much we can impose on others. Just like nobody wants to be near someone who doesn't bathe, no one wants to be near smokers except other smokers - it stinks! The smell can also get on other people, potentially leaving people they interact with later on with a bad impressoion of them since smoking has so many negative associations. This is coming from a former smoker btw, I was like a chimney for about ten years before quitting - which was a great decision for my health and wallet.

 

[Injury]

Originally posted by: Kibbo86
Two things here:

1. Smokers cost the health system less money than non-smokers. Everyone dies a horrible lingering death, which costs a ton of money. Smokers do it at 60, non smokers do it at 80. That's 20 more years to rack up health costs for flu shots, broken bones, and all the usual ailments. Also, here in Ontario at least, cigarrette taxes more than make up for the healthcare costs incurred by smoking.

2. Second hand smoke has only been shown to be harmful to people who are exposed to it for long periods of time. Spouses and children of smokers, and people who work in smokey environments. A waitress who works in a smokey bar for 20 years has 3 times the normal rate of lung cancer compared to another non-smoker. 3 times a number pretty close to 0 is still pretty small. If you are not forced to spend 40 or more hours a week in the presence of smoke, then you are not getting sick from it. Period.

As a smoker, I understand that as being a reasonable justification banning it from bars or restauraunts. It was either that or forcing employees to wear gassmasks. That would make a visit to Hooters a very creepy experience.

But jeeze, you don't have to get sanctimonious.

Let me be the first to say that item number 1 is quite asinine. It's basically saying that smoking helps kill people so that nobody has to pay for them to live their life as long as they can. In that regards, it's less expensive to let convicted murders roam the streets, because they kill off people who might cost the world some money and it would be more expensive for the government to pay for them to be in prison.

As far as comment number 2, yes, studies show things, but my personal opinion is that cigarette smoke STINKS. It makes me stink, it makes the air I breathe stink, and it makes me uncomfortable. The health risks are always a concern, but my personal choice to not smoke should not be toppled by your right to smoke because you can't control where the smoke goes.

Now, you have the right to smoke and I don't care. Smoke it up if you want. But infringing on my choice to not smoke is not fair. If I respect your choice, you should respect mine enough to at least go outside or go stand somewhere else for a bit.

BTW, I do not believe the "facts" you give in comment number 2. Please provide evidence of these.

Originally posted by: K1052
Threads like this remind me of the few things I think Jeffererson was really spot on about.

"A democracy is nothing more than mob rule, where fifty-one percent of the people may take away the rights of the other forty-nine."

except 20% to 80% is much better cause for action. If 49% of people agreed that drunk driving was acceptable practice, that still doesn't mean it's the best idea.


The thing about smoking isn't that the non-smokers hate the fact that you do it, it's that the non-smokers hate the fact that they can't avoid being a "victim" of your bad habit.

 

[Injury]

Originally posted by: jamesbond007
I say shut down the cigarette companies and use the money for healthy things like building gyms in communities that don't cost an arm and a leg or create/research foods that are as good as a real Double-Cheeseburger without the side-effects.

I nominate you for president of the world. :-D


MMMMMMmmmmmmmmmmmm

 

[Armitage]

Originally posted by: Injury

Originally posted by: Kibbo86
Two things here:

1. Smokers cost the health system less money than non-smokers. Everyone dies a horrible lingering death, which costs a ton of money. Smokers do it at 60, non smokers do it at 80. That's 20 more years to rack up health costs for flu shots, broken bones, and all the usual ailments. Also, here in Ontario at least, cigarrette taxes more than make up for the healthcare costs incurred by smoking.

2. Second hand smoke has only been shown to be harmful to people who are exposed to it for long periods of time. Spouses and children of smokers, and people who work in smokey environments. A waitress who works in a smokey bar for 20 years has 3 times the normal rate of lung cancer compared to another non-smoker. 3 times a number pretty close to 0 is still pretty small. If you are not forced to spend 40 or more hours a week in the presence of smoke, then you are not getting sick from it. Period.

As a smoker, I understand that as being a reasonable justification banning it from bars or restauraunts. It was either that or forcing employees to wear gassmasks. That would make a visit to Hooters a very creepy experience.

But jeeze, you don't have to get sanctimonious.

Let me be the first to say that item number 1 is quite asinine. It's basically saying that smoking helps kill people so that nobody has to pay for them to live their life as long as they can. In that regards, it's less expensive to let convicted murders roam the streets, because they kill off people who might cost the world some money and it would be more expensive for the government to pay for them to be in prison.

Apples & oranges - the people who die early from smoking do so by choice. The people who die early from the ax murderer do not.

As far as comment number 2, yes, studies show things, but my personal opinion is that cigarette smoke STINKS. It makes me stink, it makes the air I breathe stink, and it makes me uncomfortable. The health risks are always a concern, but my personal choice to not smoke should not be toppled by your right to smoke because you can't control where the smoke goes.

Your comfort, in the abscence of any harm, is a pretty weak reason by itself to regulate somebody else's behavior.

Now, you have the right to smoke and I don't care. Smoke it up if you want. But infringing on my choice to not smoke is not fair. If I respect your choice, you should respect mine enough to at least go outside or go stand somewhere else for a bit.

BTW, I do not believe the "facts" you give in comment number 2. Please provide evidence of these.

Edit - Watered down second statement a bit. We do regulate behaviorthat is a nuisance in the abscence of harm. Noise ordinances come to mind.

 

[n7]

Smoking is evil, so i think it should be illegal.

 

[elektrolokomotive]

It will be interesting to see how state and local governments make up for the tax revenue shortfall when tobacco is finally declared illegal.

Just jack up the general sales tax some more?

 

[Armitage]

Originally posted by: elektrolokomotive
It will be interesting to see how state and local governments make up for the tax revenue shortfall when tobacco is finally declared illegal.

Just jack up the general sales tax some more?

The question is whether those taxes are a net gain relative to the cost to the state of healthcare, loss of productivity, etc. Earlier in the thread somebody claimed that smokers cost less in terms of lifetime healthcare because they don't live as long - wonder if that's true.

 

[meltdown75]

Originally posted by: elektrolokomotive
It will be interesting to see how state and local governments make up for the tax revenue shortfall when tobacco is finally declared illegal.

Just jack up the general sales tax some more?

nah. legalize & tax da chronic!

 

[moshquerade]

Originally posted by: mwtgg

Originally posted by: moshquerade

Originally posted by: flxnimprtmscl

Originally posted by: Son of a N00b
yeah because being against something that is horrible to your health and others around you is the baddd.....yup


the only reason its not illegal now is...yup you guessed it...money....

Ah, our first typical uneducated poorly thought out knee jerk reaction.

First off, there's no definitive proof that second hand smoke is actually harmful.

Second, if I had to guess, I'd imagine you drink too much soda, drink more than a beer a day, live in a heavily populated area with bad air quality, eat fast food often, don't excercise enough, eat a poorly balanced diet, have had unprotected sex at least a few times, etc..

So please, just be quiet. Thank you.

you actually believe that second hand smoke is not harmful to those who inhale it?

please provide research that suggests such.

Why should he have to prove it, someone else made the claim that it does.

ummm...no. he is the one who said, "there's no definitive proof that second hand smoke is actually harmful."
and i would like to see a legitimate basis for this statement.

 

[apologetic]

Originally posted by: mercanucaribe
Question for the smokers... Why did you decide to start your life long addiction?

Well, obviously it's because I enjoy being stereotyped and viewed as stupid! :disgust:

If it were a life-long addiction, I wouldn't have started in the first place.

Bottom line: my smoking doesn't affect you in any way. I pay HIGH taxes on every pack I buy. My money more than covers the cost of health care, and whatever minor offenses people have toward someone smoking outside their business. What business is it of yours if I smoke?

BTW, health care costs are not going through the roof because of smokers. They're going up because of insurance and lawsuits.

 

[apologetic]

Originally posted by: moshquerade

Originally posted by: flxnimprtmscl

Ah, our first typical uneducated poorly thought out knee jerk reaction.

First off, there's no definitive proof that second hand smoke is actually harmful.

Second, if I had to guess, I'd imagine you drink too much soda, drink more than a beer a day, live in a heavily populated area with bad air quality, eat fast food often, don't excercise enough, eat a poorly balanced diet, have had unprotected sex at least a few times, etc..

So please, just be quiet. Thank you.

you actually believe that second hand smoke is not harmful to those who inhale it?

please provide research that suggests such.

You're asking him to disprove something that has never been proven, just claimed. Might as well ask him to prove that Uranus isn't visited by little green men. (Or is that too personal of a question?)

 

[apologetic]

Originally posted by: n7
Smoking is evil, so i think it should be illegal.

<---:evil:

 

[mugs]

Originally posted by: nakedfrog
I'll go ahead and say you're wrong.

:thumbsup:

 

[GuitarDaddy]

Any body got a light?

 

[BD231]

smokers suck!!!

ok ok so the people behind the smoking DON'T but smoking is terrible. As far as I can tell it's more of a social activity than anything.

Sucks going out on break at work, you have to inhale 2nd hand smoke just to talk to friends!!!!

 

[NiteWulf]

Smoking will be illegal in 10 years

Here's hoping.

Originally posted by: RBachman
Yep, as will be religions / beliefs other than christianity.

Ha. In 50 years all non-secular evangelism will be illegal. You can have religion, just don't say anything about it.

 

[wchou]

if it's made illegal their would be a lot less smoker these day! if caught smoking 1st offense 100.00
second 500.00
third 1000 plus one month of jail
it's ok if one is destroying their own health for temporary pleasure but it's the environment and others around them that they are affecting as well. it's as bad as littering.

 

[apologetic]

Originally posted by: wchou
if it's made illegal their would be a lot less smoker these day! if caught smoking 1st offense 100.00
second 500.00
third 1000 plus one month of jail
it's ok if one is destroying their own health for temporary pleasure but it's the environment and others around them that they are affecting as well. it's as bad as littering.

Even with those fines, the government will make more on taxes if cigarettes stay legal, which means less taxes for you.

And if my smoking is worse for the environment than the car you drive to work, I'll quit today.

 

[TallBill]

I have a feeling that you are wrong. But I wouldn't be suprised to see a decline.

 

[Injury]

Originally posted by: Armitage

Your comfort, in the abscence of any harm, is a pretty weak reason by itself to regulate somebody else's behavior.

I disagree 100%. The fact that it's also a 100% unnecessary and unrequired behavior just makes me disagree more.

 

[AznAnarchy99]

liquor was illegal, look how that came out =P

 

[IronWing]

Originally posted by: AznAnarchy99
liquor was illegal, look how that came out =P

Actually prohibition worked. Alcohol consumption plunged and even after prohibition ended alcohol consumption has never regained its pre-prohibition rates. Not saying that it was a good idea overall but it did drastically cut consumption.

 

[bonkers325]

Originally posted by: thirtythree

Originally posted by: Son of a N00b
yeah because being against something that is horrible to your health and others around you is the baddd.....yup


the only reason its not illegal now is...yup you guessed it...money....

I never smoke around anyone else, but I still feel like I'm committing a crime or something. Crazy people. Then again, maybe it's all in my head.

its only a crime if you can get prosecuted for it. and most people plead the fifth when it comes to smoking

 

[BoberFett]

Originally posted by: ironwing

Originally posted by: AznAnarchy99
liquor was illegal, look how that came out =P

Actually prohibition worked. Alcohol consumption plunged and even after prohibition ended alcohol consumption has never regained its pre-prohibition rates. Not saying that it was a good idea overall but it did drastically cut consumption.

Bullsht.