Illegals OK'd to Drive In New York

[PieIsAwesome]

How does drivers license=vote?

Legal residents can get a license but cannot vote.

 

[Taejin]

Originally posted by: Genx87
IMO our immigration situation is one of the most screwed up in our country. We limit the intelligent well educated while keeping an open free flowing border of low skill low wage earners. By making it harder to become a a citizen we are creating a sub culture of illegals who dont pay taxes, dont integrate within our society, and may not absorb our value system.

We are walking a dead mans walk as a nation if we continue on this path. Make it eaiser to become a citizen imo. Have background checks, make sure we arent letting in the criminals. But for the love of god we need to reform the system so the million or so who flow over the border a year become citizens. Not create a sub culture. Because eventually that sub culture will become the majority and simply take power for themselves.

Whoa Genx, careful here. This is P&N - there's no room for any kind of practical American mentality here.

 

[Tab]

Vic, assuming what you say is true than do you mean to tell me the only thing holding back immigration is a bunch of xenophobes?

If people want to live in the country and work an honest living they should be able to do so; right?

 

[babylon5]

Pro-Illegals love to punish legal immigrants who waited in line to come.

 

[glugglug]

I actually think some good could come of this.
The license applications could show that the city actually has around 15-20 million residents, as opposed to 7-8 million legal residents, and maybe the infrastructure would get some proportional adjustments. Or if they choose not to get licenses, the excuse that they can't no longer applies, so there might be more enforcement of arrests for driving without a license. Also, when they are tracked based on the licenses, they are more likely to get arrested for repeated driving w/o insurance (and if they do go and get insurance, they won't be keeping it because they drive so badly).
If/when they apply for the license, it provides an address to go look for them if INS becomes more active in deportation with the upcoming recession.

 

[nageov3t]

with the complete lack of any real immigration reform coming from washington, I don't see what the big deal is with regard to this.

driver's licenses =! citizenship papers, voting cards, etc. it will simply be a way of encouraging people to drive safely and legally.

 

[1EZduzit]

Why stop at drivers license? Let the doctors, lawyers and other professionals come here illegally and get their licenses to practice.

 

[Pabster]

Originally posted by: loki8481
with the complete lack of any real immigration reform coming from washington, I don't see what the big deal is with regard to this.

driver's licenses =! citizenship papers, voting cards, etc. it will simply be a way of encouraging people to drive safely and legally.

The real problem is that it will make a NY Drivers License worthless as a form of identification.

No one is going to accept it as ID when illegals can get one so easily. (And legally.)

 

[EagleKeeper]

Originally posted by: Pabster

Originally posted by: loki8481
with the complete lack of any real immigration reform coming from washington, I don't see what the big deal is with regard to this.

driver's licenses =! citizenship papers, voting cards, etc. it will simply be a way of encouraging people to drive safely and legally.

The real problem is that it will make a NY Drivers License worthless as a form of identification.

No one is going to accept it as ID when illegals can get one so easily. (And legally.)

As may have been stated before; the NY driver license may then become a form of invalid ID w/ respect to the TSA.

That may force everyone that has a NY Driver License used as an ID for flying to have to obtain a Passport.

 

[tehach]

Originally posted by: blackangst1

Gonna answer my question Dave? Lets say a LEGAL immigrant, who has spent thousands of dollars and probably hundreds of hours to get to this country, in the right way, according to our laws, looks you in the eye and asks,

Sir, with all I've been through to try and follow your rules and make a life for myself here, will you please tell me how you can justify giving someone who snuck across the border, and didnt have to go through the steps I did to get here, the right to vote in American elections? Because I cant vote and Im here legally.

I'm also waiting for an answer to this very legitimate question. Snarky partisan cliches don't count.

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: tehach

Originally posted by: blackangst1

Gonna answer my question Dave? Lets say a LEGAL immigrant, who has spent thousands of dollars and probably hundreds of hours to get to this country, in the right way, according to our laws, looks you in the eye and asks,

Sir, with all I've been through to try and follow your rules and make a life for myself here, will you please tell me how you can justify giving someone who snuck across the border, and didnt have to go through the steps I did to get here, the right to vote in American elections? Because I cant vote and Im here legally.

I'm also waiting for an answer to this very legitimate question. Snarky partisan cliches don't count.

I already answered this question.

I would look him in the eye and tell him that Republicans created the situation and when he does become a citizen and gets a chance to vote remember that fact and vote accordingly.

 

[EagleKeeper]

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: tehach

Originally posted by: blackangst1

Gonna answer my question Dave? Lets say a LEGAL immigrant, who has spent thousands of dollars and probably hundreds of hours to get to this country, in the right way, according to our laws, looks you in the eye and asks,

Sir, with all I've been through to try and follow your rules and make a life for myself here, will you please tell me how you can justify giving someone who snuck across the border, and didnt have to go through the steps I did to get here, the right to vote in American elections? Because I cant vote and Im here legally.

I'm also waiting for an answer to this very legitimate question. Snarky partisan cliches don't count.

I already answered this question.

I would look him in the eye and tell him that Republicans created the situation and when he does become a citizen and gets a chance to vote remember that fact and vote accordingly.

What did the Democrats attempt to due when they were in the same shoes as your Republicans?

 

[piasabird]

Who drives in New York?

 

[tehach]

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

I already answered this question.

I would look him in the eye and tell him that Republicans created the situation and when he does become a citizen and gets a chance to vote remember that fact and vote accordingly.

Snarky partisan cliche.

 

[BoberFett]

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: tehach

Originally posted by: blackangst1

Gonna answer my question Dave? Lets say a LEGAL immigrant, who has spent thousands of dollars and probably hundreds of hours to get to this country, in the right way, according to our laws, looks you in the eye and asks,

Sir, with all I've been through to try and follow your rules and make a life for myself here, will you please tell me how you can justify giving someone who snuck across the border, and didnt have to go through the steps I did to get here, the right to vote in American elections? Because I cant vote and Im here legally.

I'm also waiting for an answer to this very legitimate question. Snarky partisan cliches don't count.

I already answered this question.

I would look him in the eye and tell him that Republicans created the situation and when he does become a citizen and gets a chance to vote remember that fact and vote accordingly.

New York is a Democrat stronghold. Try again, fool.

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: Common Courtesy

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: tehach

Originally posted by: blackangst1

Gonna answer my question Dave? Lets say a LEGAL immigrant, who has spent thousands of dollars and probably hundreds of hours to get to this country, in the right way, according to our laws, looks you in the eye and asks,

Sir, with all I've been through to try and follow your rules and make a life for myself here, will you please tell me how you can justify giving someone who snuck across the border, and didnt have to go through the steps I did to get here, the right to vote in American elections? Because I cant vote and Im here legally.

I'm also waiting for an answer to this very legitimate question. Snarky partisan cliches don't count.

I already answered this question.

I would look him in the eye and tell him that Republicans created the situation and when he does become a citizen and gets a chance to vote remember that fact and vote accordingly.

What did the Democrats attempt to due when they were in the same shoes as your Republicans?

They didn't open the border floodgates for businesses to hire illegals.

Bushco did.

Have every business that has illegals give them up by Republican law to undo what they did and send them back to Mexico or we have to make them legal citizens.

It's as simple as that.

 

[jonks]

Originally posted by: piasabird
Who drives in New York?

:thumbsup: 🙂

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: BoberFett
You passed over my question earlier Vic. Did your immigrant ancestors get food stamps and earned income credits? Schools that used to be funded and managed at a local level are now largely funded and mandated from the federal. That's where your comparisons are off.

If you want to go back to the days before Washington started coddling everyone from cradle to grave, hell I'm right behind you. If our taxes were at the same level they were in 1900 then I say let anybody who wants to come here and they can succeed or fail on their own merits, it makes no difference to me. But when the average middle class taxpayer is being squeezed for every nickel and dime to educate and feed the children of tens of millions of new minimum wage workers, that's a different story.

I won't contest the validity of this argument, except to say that (1) the illegals are coming whether we like it or not (in fact, they're already here), and (2) it is better IMO to help them become citizens, legal and tax-paying, than illegal and marginalized as they are now.

 

[BoomerD]

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: BoberFett
You passed over my question earlier Vic. Did your immigrant ancestors get food stamps and earned income credits? Schools that used to be funded and managed at a local level are now largely funded and mandated from the federal. That's where your comparisons are off.

If you want to go back to the days before Washington started coddling everyone from cradle to grave, hell I'm right behind you. If our taxes were at the same level they were in 1900 then I say let anybody who wants to come here and they can succeed or fail on their own merits, it makes no difference to me. But when the average middle class taxpayer is being squeezed for every nickel and dime to educate and feed the children of tens of millions of new minimum wage workers, that's a different story.

I won't contest the validity of this argument, except to say that (1) the illegals are coming whether we like it or not (in fact, they're already here), and (2) it is better IMO to help them become citizens, legal and tax-paying, than illegal and marginalized as they are now.

Nope...send them all home. If they want to become legal immigrants, they do it by the same process as everyone else. Otherwise, if they're caught here illegally, they should forfeit any property they own here to pay the costs of deporting them.

Letting the illegals have an easy track to citizenship is a slap in the face to every immigrant who paid their fees and waited their turn to immigrate here legally.

It's a slap in the face to any immigrant who had to jump through all the hoops to become a naturalized citizen.

It's a kick in the balls to American citizens who's jobs have been taken by illegals because they are willing to work cheaper than the rest of us.

The bullshit line of "They are doing jobs Americans won't do" doesnt cut it. They are working construction, which pays pretty dammed well in many parts of the country.
They are working in restaurants, bakeries, and in almost every "skilled or non-skilled trade.
They are taking any kind of job they can get, and since they're willing to work cheaper, and often under the table, they're displacing American workers who expect a reasonable wage for their labor.

 

[Noobtastic]

Originally posted by: Hayabusa Rider
The best the opposition came up was "they'll be letting terrorists in!!!" That one has been worn out so badly it's pathetic. Dust off some new reasons, please.

Damaging schools, consuming resources, increasing crime, ruining small cities, etc. A third of California inmates are illegals.

Build a wall, establish some sort of citizen route in MEXICO, and push the s**t out of Calderon. For those who are unaware, Calderon (the President of Mexico) essentially believes that the impoverished citizens should be the responsibility of the thriving country of the United States. He has shown no motiviation or desire to help his own people. Of course, this doesn't matter...cause we Americans are spoiled little s**ts. Forget the fact that we have the highest poverty rate youths (20+%) out of all the developed nations and the total impoverished is around 11-13% last time I checked. Mexico's poverty rate is about 25%.


People who spend years on the bus waiting for a visa to the US who live in crazy countries like Vietnam, Iran, Iraq, Laos, China, and even India don't get in because of Mexican illegals. These are skilled workers, dedicated workers. My aunt from Iran spent years on the waiting list (and thousands of dollars) to get into the US, and that was during the revolution. The mother f**king revolution.


I can't go to the library without seeing half the books in Spanish. I can't go to the public school because they don't offer the necessary courses since everything is remedial. I can't walk to school (which is located .4 miles away) because of crime increase from rapid immigration.


I'm tired.

 

[Noobtastic]

Case in point: These people CANNOT integrate. That's the big difference between Ellis Island and CURRENT immigration. Just like the Muslims in Sweden and the Netherlands.

 

[blackangst1]

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: Sinsear

Originally posted by: BoomerD
Illegals should have no rights except to leave here alive.

Other than that, the mere act of being here in violation of US laws makes them criminals, and as such, they have forfeited all rights afforded to US citizens and legal immigrants.

Box em up and ship them home...

:thumbsup:

But Republicans brought them in for their Corporate Buds.

Republicans are not about to reverse what they started on purpose and similar to Iraq it is not reversible anyway.

Only way to is to make them Americans.

End of story and never vote Republican ever again.

Pssst...Dave...guess what...the ball is in motion....YOURE WRONG AGAIN bwahahahahaha

Youre such a partisan troll lol

Senate GOP strikes back at Spitzer's illegal immigrant plan

The Senate's Republican majority moved Monday to try to block Gov. Eliot Spitzer's plan to make it easier for illegal immigrants to receive driver's licenses.

The bill to reverse Spitzer's order drew some of the most heated and personal attacks seen in years on the state Senate floor, pitting upstate and downstate politicians against each other.

Some white upstate Senators felt they were being called racist and took offense to comments Sen. Kevin Parker made indicating that New York City was more valuable as a terrorist target than upstate regions.

"I'm sorry everybody is so thin skinned they are hurt by my comments, but I have a lot of people in my district and a lot of people in this state who are hurt by this legislation," the Brooklyn Democrat said.

The Senate's license bill, which passed 39 to 19, would require applicants for a driver's license to be in the country legally. Spitzer's plan will end that requirement in December, by no longer requiring a Social Security number to get or renew a license.

The debate was part of an uncertain special session that could include action on pay raises for legislators and judges and tax breaks despite a projected deficit.

Spitzer has said he can start the new policy in December without the Legislature's approval.

"We will change those rules," Spitzer said. "If somebody will challenge it, we'll see what the courts will do." He said he believes his administration is within its legal authority to change the rules.

"This governor is so ill advised, there's an arrogance to it that is hard to understand," said Senate Majority Leader Joseph Bruno.

The Assembly's Democratic majority has supported the Democratic governor's plan, although some Democrats may side with the opposed Republican minority. The Senate's measure, if passed as expected in that chamber, wouldn't become law without the Assembly's support.

Bruno said the attempt to change the policy on illegal immigrants was unconstitutional, contradicted the REAL ID Act and opposed the guidelines provided by the 911 commission.

After leaving a closed-door conference with Senate Democrats, Spitzer said the discussion was ongoing.

"Reasonable people will disagree on tough issues," Spitzer said. "That's part of the discourse we have ... I think some of the rhetoric that has been imposed and brought into this issue has not only been overheated but I would say counterproductive."

Richard Clarke, the former counterterrorism adviser to three presidents, and William Bratton, the former commissioner of the New York City Police Department have supported the governor's plan.

Republicans argued Spitzer's plan wouldn't help an illegal immigrant get insurance and the roads would be no safer.

"It is conceivable that some insurers will sell an insurance policy absent a social security number, but they would be in the minority," said Michael Barry, vice president of public relations for the Insurance Information Institute.

Senate Minority Leader Malcolm Smith said he and most of his Democratic caucus support the governor's plan.

"This is the right way to go, given that Washington has failed to act" on illegal immigration, Smith said on the Senate floor.

Meanwhile, the Assembly's minority Republican caucus called on Democrats to help pass legislation with new amendments when they go into session Tuesday. The new items would also prevent Spitzer's plan from going through.

A spokesman for Democratic Assembly Speaker Sheldon Silver and Assembly Democrats had no comment on how they would vote on the issue if forced to.

A Siena College poll released last week found 72 percent of voters were opposed to "the governor's plan to allow undocumented immigrants to get New York driver's licenses."

Assembly Republican leader James Tedisco of Schenectady said Republicans plan to force a vote on the issue Tuesday, if the Assembly goes into session.

The session came the same day that Rensselaer County Clerk Frank Merola filed a lawsuit to prevent implementation of the new license policy.

Associated Press Writer Michael Gormley contributed to this report.

 

[EagleKeeper]

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: Common Courtesy

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: tehach

Originally posted by: blackangst1

Gonna answer my question Dave? Lets say a LEGAL immigrant, who has spent thousands of dollars and probably hundreds of hours to get to this country, in the right way, according to our laws, looks you in the eye and asks,

Sir, with all I've been through to try and follow your rules and make a life for myself here, will you please tell me how you can justify giving someone who snuck across the border, and didnt have to go through the steps I did to get here, the right to vote in American elections? Because I cant vote and Im here legally.

I'm also waiting for an answer to this very legitimate question. Snarky partisan cliches don't count.

I already answered this question.

I would look him in the eye and tell him that Republicans created the situation and when he does become a citizen and gets a chance to vote remember that fact and vote accordingly.

What did the Democrats attempt to due when they were in the same shoes as your Republicans?

They didn't open the border floodgates for businesses to hire illegals.

Bushco did.

Have every business that has illegals give them up by Republican law to undo what they did and send them back to Mexico or we have to make them legal citizens.

It's as simple as that.

So according to you, then there were NO illegals being employed prior to Jan 2001 and there were no illegals crossing the border enmass.

What laws have been enacted that amnesty to businesses that hire illegals since Jan 2001.

You just choose to ignore that business (of which you endevored to be one) goes on, no matter which political party is in office. And neither party wants to put their foot down on the handling of illegals in mass.

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: blackangst1
Senate GOP strikes back at Spitzer's illegal immigrant plan

Spitzer has said he can start the new policy in December without the Legislature's approval.

"We will change those rules," Spitzer said. "If somebody will challenge it, we'll see what the courts will do." He said he believes his administration is within its legal authority to change the rules.

"This governor is so ill advised, there's an arrogance to it that is hard to understand," said Senate Majority Leader Joseph Bruno.

Awesome Spitzer has learned well from the Republicans :thumbsup:

 

[BoberFett]

Are your Democrat heroes so weak minded that they can't make their own decisions, and they just have to emulate Republicans?