Illegals OK'd to Drive In New York

[Pabster]

Story here.

So Spitzer did it. Now it's time to shove this BS right down his throat. It's time for Americans to take this country back - both from the illegals and those pandering to them.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

The best the opposition came up was "they'll be letting terrorists in!!!" That one has been worn out so badly it's pathetic. Dust off some new reasons, please.

 

[Pabster]

Wake the hell up. A drivers' license is the key to many other things. This isn't rocket science.

 

[nismotigerwvu]

Don't get me wrong, I'm totally not opposed to immigration and do not have any hate towards our population of illegal citizens, but if you are in this country and plan to stay you MUST go through the system. My grandparents did it, as did millions of others. A driver's license is a privilege and not a right. That states, as long as we promise full citizenship to anyone born in the country regardless of the status of the parents, there will be an enormous reason to be here illegally.

 

[ConstipatedVigilante]

Originally posted by: Hayabusa Rider
The best the opposition came up was "they'll be letting terrorists in!!!" That one has been worn out so badly it's pathetic. Dust off some new reasons, please.

Wait, so you don't mind them having driver's licenses? And the terrorist point is completely valid. What's the point in fighting a war overseas if we aren't keeping track of who enters the homeland? With a driver's license, they gain many of the privileges of a citizen. People use their licenses as ID for practically everything.

 

[JD50]

Originally posted by: Hayabusa Rider
The best the opposition came up was "they'll be letting terrorists in!!!" That one has been worn out so badly it's pathetic. Dust off some new reasons, please.

I think its ridiculous that you have to actually explain to someone the reasons why someone that is here ILLEGALLY should not be issued a drivers license.

 

[Vic]

I'm a strong proponent of immigration who is also strongly against illegal immigration. And guess what? that's not a conflict. The solution to illegal immigration is to open the borders to more legal immigration. Hardly rocket science. The reason these immigrants enter our country illegally is because we don't allow them to do so legally. In the meantime, our current system is creating a two-tiered society, something we should seek to avoid at all costs.
Now, as a natural citizen, I have to jump through many hoops for my drivers license (ID, proof of citizenship, vehicle insurance, AND provide my social security #, and that's just to renew it). It is obviously follows that all of those requirements have to be exempted in order for an illegal to receive a drivers license. Hopefully, there's not a lot of "DUST" on this reasoning. In fact, I would LOVE to hear from anyone how that could possibly be considered right.

 

[Pabster]

Originally posted by: JD50
I think its ridiculous that you have to actually explain to someone the reasons why someone that is here ILLEGALLY should not be issued a drivers license.

QFT! :thumbsup:

 

[BoomerD]

To me, the ONLY possible argument FOR issuing driver's licenses to illegal immigrants is that they MIGHT be qualified to drive and MIGHT buy insurance...living in northern Mexifornia, the illegals are pretty much a known hazard of driving...every week there are stories about an unlicensed and uninsured driver causing an accident...and if they're physically able, they sneak back across the border to escape prosecution/responsibility for their actions.
Does that mean that ALL unlicensed/uninsured drivers here are illegal immigrants? Nope, but the majority of them seem to be.
Does this mean that the illegals will get licenses (which tells the government they are here) or buy insurance? Nope sure doesn't, but MAYBE some will...

Overall, I think we need to take contol of the borders back. We as a country have to control who enters our country, and why they come here.

 

[fskimospy]

Originally posted by: ConstipatedVigilante

Originally posted by: Hayabusa Rider
The best the opposition came up was "they'll be letting terrorists in!!!" That one has been worn out so badly it's pathetic. Dust off some new reasons, please.

Wait, so you don't mind them having driver's licenses? And the terrorist point is completely valid. What's the point in fighting a war overseas if we aren't keeping track of who enters the homeland? With a driver's license, they gain many of the privileges of a citizen. People use their licenses as ID for practically everything.

Are you saying you consider Iraq (at least I assume you mean Iraq) a conflict in which we are fighting terrorists who wish to attack us in the US? Interesting conflation there.

I am a proponent of this idea. There are really only two available options to us right now. We can either enforce the current legal framework by kicking out all the illegal immigrants, arresting them, etc... which we don't do for many obvious reasons, or we can change the legal framework to bring them inside it. This change accepts the reality that illegal immigrants are a nontrivial segment of our society, and attempts to bring them into it in ways that will allow us to better regulate their behavior. I think that's a good thing.

And seriously... you guys are worried about terrorism implications? Seriously!? So these guys are part of a globe spanning terror network financed by millions of dollars and you think they can't get a fake ID if they need one? Really? I'm sorry, but the lack of a driver's license is not what is preventing some Al Qaeda terror cell from making its diabolical plans into reality.

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: eskimospy

Originally posted by: ConstipatedVigilante

Originally posted by: Hayabusa Rider
The best the opposition came up was "they'll be letting terrorists in!!!" That one has been worn out so badly it's pathetic. Dust off some new reasons, please.

Wait, so you don't mind them having driver's licenses? And the terrorist point is completely valid. What's the point in fighting a war overseas if we aren't keeping track of who enters the homeland? With a driver's license, they gain many of the privileges of a citizen. People use their licenses as ID for practically everything.

Are you saying you consider Iraq (at least I assume you mean Iraq) a conflict in which we are fighting terrorists who wish to attack us in the US? Interesting conflation there.

I am a proponent of this idea. There are really only two available options to us right now. We can either enforce the current legal framework by kicking out all the illegal immigrants, arresting them, etc... which we don't do for many obvious reasons, or we can change the legal framework to bring them inside it. This change accepts the reality that illegal immigrants are a nontrivial segment of our society, and attempts to bring them into it in ways that will allow us to better regulate their behavior. I think that's a good thing.

And seriously... you guys are worried about terrorism implications? Seriously!? So these guys are part of a globe spanning terror network financed by millions of dollars and you think they can't get a fake ID if they need one? Really? I'm sorry, but the lack of a driver's license is not what is preventing some Al Qaeda terror cell from making its diabolical plans into reality.

How about making it easier for them to become citizens first so that they can get their licenses like the rest of us, thus making this gesture unnecessary? Or is that the reason why you chose to exclude such an obvious solution from your "there are really only two available options to us right now" premise?
In the meantime, granting them drivers licenses without citizenship is in effect creating 2 tiers of citizenship. That is an abhorrent goal (albeit one with significant historical precedent), various red herrings about terrorism, racism, etc. notwithstanding.

 

[dmcowen674]

Eliot continues to be a hero and champion for the people.

He is simply fixing a problem that Republicans created.

Republicans are the ones that let the illegals in.

This fixes a serious situation with so many wrecks occuring with the illegals with no insurance.

The fact it really pisses off Republicans is an added bonus :thumbsup:

 

[fskimospy]

Originally posted by: Vic
How about making it easier for them to become citizens first so that they can get their licenses like the rest of us, thus making this gesture unnecessary? Or is that the reason why you chose to exclude such an obvious solution from your "there are really only two available options to us right now" premise?
In the meantime, granting them drivers licenses without citizenship is in effect creating 2 tiers of citizenship. That is an abhorrent goal (albeit one with significant historical precedent), various red herrings about terrorism, racism, etc. notwithstanding.

What the hell are you talking about? Changing the legal framework could mean anything that puts those who are now illegal aliens within the legal and regulatory framework of the US, be that by making them into citizens, changing requirements to bring them into the system, whatever. Thanks for coming out flailing though.

 

[marincounty]

Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Eliot continues to be a hero and champion for the people.

He is simply fixing a problem that Republicans created.

Republicans are the ones that let the illegals in.

This fixes a serious situation with so many wrecks occuring with the illegals with no insurance.

The fact it really pisses off Republicans is an added bonus :thumbsup:

Exactly. The illegals are here and they are driving, why would you not want them to have a license? Which is a form of identification btw. We will have a photograph and a thumbprint, neither of which can be faked, of the person.
Unless you prefer your illegals free range.

 

[NoStateofMind]

Two solutions.

1.) Make the illegals citizens immediately.

2.) Tell them to GTFO!

I'm in favor of the latter.

 

[UberNeuman]

Originally posted by: Pabster
Story here.

So Spitzer did it. Now it's time to shove this BS right down his throat. It's time for Americans to take this country back - both from the illegals and those pandering to them.

I'm sure the Native Americans would be happy with that....

 

[StageLeft]

Originally posted by: Hayabusa Rider
The best the opposition came up was "they'll be letting terrorists in!!!" That one has been worn out so badly it's pathetic. Dust off some new reasons, please.

Untrue. I follow a local paper and the vast majority of people in it are quite opposed to this. Apparently, though, Spitzer did promise to make this the case before he was voted in.

There are a couple of other points to make: 1) The DMV should not be upholding federal immigration laws (Fed should be doing that), 2) Many LEGAL immigrants do not qualify for social security numbers, so if an SSN is required for a license, these people cannot drive.

All that said, I'm generally opposed to paving the way for an easier time for illegals and some of the reasons I've heard in support of this (like it will make roads safer) are simply illogical.

BTW, I do not give a rat's ass about terrorism. It's the chicken little of our time. I do care about illegals harming the future of the US. There are simply no clear stats on it, but it seems to me that they have a net cost when one considers that they generally represent the bottom tiers of society from an educational standpoint and cost the social system in more ways than they contribute to it. In NY state in particular, the last thing this state needs is more of a social burden (which is paid for by taxes...taxes here are incredibly high as it is).

Eliot continues to be a hero and champion for the people.

Not the people who elected him. Granted, I am only privy to a local paper in Western NY, but trust me the majority of people are quite opposed to this idea.

 

[blackangst1]

Originally posted by: Pabster
Wake the hell up. A drivers' license is the key to many other things. This isn't rocket science.

Including VOTING.

 

[blackangst1]

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: eskimospy

Originally posted by: ConstipatedVigilante

Originally posted by: Hayabusa Rider
The best the opposition came up was "they'll be letting terrorists in!!!" That one has been worn out so badly it's pathetic. Dust off some new reasons, please.

Wait, so you don't mind them having driver's licenses? And the terrorist point is completely valid. What's the point in fighting a war overseas if we aren't keeping track of who enters the homeland? With a driver's license, they gain many of the privileges of a citizen. People use their licenses as ID for practically everything.

Are you saying you consider Iraq (at least I assume you mean Iraq) a conflict in which we are fighting terrorists who wish to attack us in the US? Interesting conflation there.

I am a proponent of this idea. There are really only two available options to us right now. We can either enforce the current legal framework by kicking out all the illegal immigrants, arresting them, etc... which we don't do for many obvious reasons, or we can change the legal framework to bring them inside it. This change accepts the reality that illegal immigrants are a nontrivial segment of our society, and attempts to bring them into it in ways that will allow us to better regulate their behavior. I think that's a good thing.

And seriously... you guys are worried about terrorism implications? Seriously!? So these guys are part of a globe spanning terror network financed by millions of dollars and you think they can't get a fake ID if they need one? Really? I'm sorry, but the lack of a driver's license is not what is preventing some Al Qaeda terror cell from making its diabolical plans into reality.

How about making it easier for them to become citizens first so that they can get their licenses like the rest of us, thus making this gesture unnecessary? Or is that the reason why you chose to exclude such an obvious solution from your "there are really only two available options to us right now" premise?
In the meantime, granting them drivers licenses without citizenship is in effect creating 2 tiers of citizenship. That is an abhorrent goal (albeit one with significant historical precedent), various red herrings about terrorism, racism, etc. notwithstanding.

I would go along with that...but ONLY if they had to go through the same process as other immigrants. I doubt they would make it though.

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: blackangst1

Originally posted by: Pabster
Wake the hell up. A drivers' license is the key to many other things. This isn't rocket science.

Including VOTING.

They should vote.

Not for the ones that let them in illegaly but for the ones that made it right.

 

[blackangst1]

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: blackangst1

Originally posted by: Pabster
Wake the hell up. A drivers' license is the key to many other things. This isn't rocket science.

Including VOTING.

They should vote.

Not for the ones that let them in illegaly but for the ones that made it right.

Who's shredding the Constitution now?

Traitor.

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: blackangst1

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: blackangst1

Originally posted by: Pabster
Wake the hell up. A drivers' license is the key to many other things. This isn't rocket science.

Including VOTING.

They should vote.

Not for the ones that let them in illegaly but for the ones that made it right.

Who's shredding the Constitution now?

Traitor.

Republicans and their supporters are the traitors.

Having to clean up your mess.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Originally posted by: Skoorb

Originally posted by: Hayabusa Rider
The best the opposition came up was "they'll be letting terrorists in!!!" That one has been worn out so badly it's pathetic. Dust off some new reasons, please.

Untrue. I follow a local paper and the vast majority of people in it are quite opposed to this. Apparently, though, Spitzer did promise to make this the case before he was voted in.

There are a couple of other points to make: 1) The DMV should not be upholding federal immigration laws (Fed should be doing that), 2) Many LEGAL immigrants do not qualify for social security numbers, so if an SSN is required for a license, these people cannot drive.

All that said, I'm generally opposed to paving the way for an easier time for illegals and some of the reasons I've heard in support of this (like it will make roads safer) are simply illogical.

BTW, I do not give a rat's ass about terrorism. It's the chicken little of our time. I do care about illegals harming the future of the US. There are simply no clear stats on it, but it seems to me that they have a net cost when one considers that they generally represent the bottom tiers of society from an educational standpoint and cost the social system in more ways than they contribute to it. In NY state in particular, the last thing this state needs is more of a social burden (which is paid for by taxes...taxes here are incredibly high as it is).

Eliot continues to be a hero and champion for the people.

Not the people who elected him. Granted, I am only privy to a local paper in Western NY, but trust me the majority of people are quite opposed to this idea.

Well, wrong. I live in Western NY, and I'm not crazy about it either. I don't know anyone who is. What I do hear is the political opposition who made the main objection terrorism. If someone wants to make Spitzer back down, making that your best shot isn't going to work.

Just for an FYI, any illegals are supposed to bring scads of ID that will go to a special bureau to be verified. Supposed to take 6 weeks. Licenses aren't going to be given out just by asking. I wonder what the point is. Who is going to effectively surrender themselves to the authorities in this manner? Makes no sense.

So what rag are ya reading? Democrat and Chronicle?

 

[Pabster]

Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Republicans and their supporters are the traitors.

Having to clean up your mess.

You're a disgusting troll, Dave. :thumbsdown: :| :thumbsdown:

 

[blackangst1]

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: blackangst1

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: blackangst1

Originally posted by: Pabster
Wake the hell up. A drivers' license is the key to many other things. This isn't rocket science.

Including VOTING.

They should vote.

Not for the ones that let them in illegaly but for the ones that made it right.

Who's shredding the Constitution now?

Traitor.

Republicans and their supporters are the traitors.

Having to clean up your mess.

Can you please explain to me why someone who entered this country illegally should be able to vote, and yet my wife, who entered this country LEGALLY, cannot?

Please tell me I'd really like to know-

edit: Im actually editing my observation of your trollishness because I really do want you to answer my question. What would you tell a LEGAL alien when they look you in the eye and ask why they cant vote yet you want illegals to?