blackangst1
Lifer
- Feb 23, 2005
- 22,914
- 2,359
- 126
Gonna answer my question Dave? Lets say a LEGAL immigrant, who has spent thousands of dollars and probably hundreds of hours to get to this country, in the right way, according to our laws, looks you in the eye and asks,
Sir, with all I've been through to try and follow your rules and make a life for myself here, will you please tell me how you can justify giving someone who snuck across the border, and didnt have to go through the steps I did to get here, the right to vote in American elections? Because I cant vote and Im here legally.
Dave you have a website proclaiming your desire to run in the 2008 elections (although I doubt you'll ever get registered, but thats another story). You need to have an answer for things if ANYONE other than your wife will take you even half assed seriously. So why wont you answer the questions? Do you really lack the intelligence to type anything except cookie cutter responses?
WhipperSnapper
Lifer
- Oct 30, 2004
- 11,442
- 32
- 91
What about the usual economic arguments -- that it doesn't make any economic sense to import tens of millions of impoverished people? What about the population explosion argument -- that increasing our nation's population and increasing the ratio of Americans to American natural resources (including open space, clean air, and clean water) will decrease Americans' quality of life?
Oh...those arguments make too much sense...back to calling opponents of mass immigration racists and terrorism fear mongerers.
WhipperSnapper
Lifer
- Oct 30, 2004
- 11,442
- 32
- 91
Where will the money to provide all of the education and health care for the children of these mostly impoverished immigrants come from? Where will the extra land and fresh water that we need to accommodate the resulting population explosion come from?
WhipperSnapper
Lifer
- Oct 30, 2004
- 11,442
- 32
- 91
WhipperSnapper
Lifer
- Oct 30, 2004
- 11,442
- 32
- 91
Several reasons. First, since we have socialist aspects to our economy, we'll end up spending large amounts of resources on the newly imported poor. Also, it isn't as though the nation doesn't have it's own cache of tens of millions of impoverished Americans who need help and job opportunities.
Another reason is--carrying capacity. Ever heard of Malthus or Malthusian Biology? If we opened up the floodgates and allowed anyone who wants to live in the U.S. to come, our population would swell to over 1 billion. As it is now, we're on track to hit 450 million by 2050--those are third world-like numbers. Just where will all of the land, clean air, clean water, and natural resources that we need to maintain an American middle class standard of living come from? "They don't make land anymore."
Jeff7
Lifer
- Jan 4, 2001
- 41,599
- 19
- 81
This here is just the thing that so many people just don't get.
"OMG you don't want illegal immigrants here, racist! You hate Hispanics!!!!"
Seems that those saying that kind of thing are the racists themselves, since they automatically assume "illegal immigrants = Hispanics." Ironic, no?
"Illegal" is the key word here. You want to be here, do it the correct, legal way. Come in, register with the system, and pay taxes. Enjoy your stay. Oh, and learn English. Communication is important. We speak English here. Learn it.
Two-tiered society's where it's at though. I'm thinking of royalty vs serfs, back in the good old days. Now THAT was oppression done right. If you've got a class of people here who could be in constant fear of deportation, they can be exploited - that spells "cheap labor." Companies already know it, why do you think that any of them would risk being caught employing illegals? They like the idea of having a pure labor class, one over whom they can exert complete control. Yes it's unethical, but, you know, profit margins are on the line here, and they supersede all other priorities.
You want illegals to vote? What's next, sending absentee ballots out so that the rest of the world can vote in our elections, too?
IMO our immigration situation is one of the most screwed up in our country. We limit the intelligent well educated while keeping an open free flowing border of low skill low wage earners. By making it harder to become a a citizen we are creating a sub culture of illegals who dont pay taxes, dont integrate within our society, and may not absorb our value system.
We are walking a dead mans walk as a nation if we continue on this path. Make it eaiser to become a citizen imo. Have background checks, make sure we arent letting in the criminals. But for the love of god we need to reform the system so the million or so who flow over the border a year become citizens. Not create a sub culture. Because eventually that sub culture will become the majority and simply take power for themselves.
We are walking a dead mans walk as a nation if we continue on this path. Make it eaiser to become a citizen imo. Have background checks, make sure we arent letting in the criminals. But for the love of god we need to reform the system so the million or so who flow over the border a year become citizens. Not create a sub culture. Because eventually that sub culture will become the majority and simply take power for themselves.
- Oct 30, 2000
- 42,591
- 5
- 0
An immigrant coming here illegally and being allowed to then stay legaly does not automatically grant citizenship and the right to vote.
BoomerD
No Lifer
- Feb 26, 2006
- 62,914
- 11,305
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Illegals should have no rights except to leave here alive.
Other than that, the mere act of being here in violation of US laws makes them criminals, and as such, they have forfeited all rights afforded to US citizens and legal immigrants.
Box em up and ship them home...
Other than that, the mere act of being here in violation of US laws makes them criminals, and as such, they have forfeited all rights afforded to US citizens and legal immigrants.
Box em up and ship them home...
But Republicans brought them in for their Corporate Buds.
Republicans are not about to reverse what they started on purpose and similar to Iraq it is not reversible anyway.
Only way to is to make them Americans.
End of story and never vote Republican ever again.
Your post makes no sense.
Anyway, How will they prove the age of these illegals? Will they provide birth certs from their country of orgin? Will they even be able to get car insurance?
The governor should be personally liable for every citizen injured/killed/damage to property, by one of these illegals while driving.
- Oct 30, 2000
- 42,591
- 5
- 0
So you feel that not a single illegal ever came across the border during a Democratic administration.
How much effort did the Democratic administratinos exert to remove the illegals or punish those the hire them?
Again, you let your partisan hatred destroy your comon logic (if any is left) and enhance your reputation as such.
- Oct 30, 2000
- 42,591
- 5
- 0
Even excrement can be used as fertilizer for those big Republican farms that are desperate to hire the illegals.
So Dave's output can actually be useful for something
Vic
Elite Member
- Jun 12, 2001
- 50,415
- 14,305
- 136
First, there is no shortage of land. North America is roughly tied with South America as the second most sparsely populated habitable continent on earth, after Australia. At the same time, it is among the richest in natural resources, particularly in arable land. In contrast, Africa and Asia have nearly twice the population density, and Europe has nearly 4 times the population density. So contrary to fear mongerers, there is plenty of room and resources. In fact, between the Great Lakes and the Amazon alone, the Americas contain nearly half of the world's surface fresh water.
Second, they provide it with their own labor. That's the very basis of economics. There is no chicken-or-the-egg argument regarding capital and labor in economics, as it is an indisputable fact that labor comes first and creates capital. Let these immigrants in, give them the opportunity to work and be productive, and they will do so to the enrichment of us all. That's the history of the US in a nutshell right there. The arguments you are using are and always have been smokescreens for cultural bias and nationalism.
Vic
Elite Member
- Jun 12, 2001
- 50,415
- 14,305
- 136
You clearly don't understand Malthus (except to parrot the usual misused "Population Bomb" nonsense). Or perhaps you would like to explain how the world's population has grown seven-fold since his time while standard of living has simultaneously increased?
How can that be? One word: technology. Which is what Malthus was really trying to prove in the first place, that population is limited by subsistence. Hence, the very fact that our population continues to increase indicates that output is still relatively higher than standard of living. Should that trend reverse in the future for some reason, then population would start to decline as living standards fell off (probably through war initially).
"Carrying capacity" ...pfft :roll:
BoberFett
Lifer
- Oct 9, 1999
- 37,563
- 9
- 81
You passed over my question earlier Vic. Did your immigrant ancestors get food stamps and earned income credits? Schools that used to be funded and managed at a local level are now largely funded and mandated from the federal. That's where your comparisons are off.
If you want to go back to the days before Washington started coddling everyone from cradle to grave, hell I'm right behind you. If our taxes were at the same level they were in 1900 then I say let anybody who wants to come here and they can succeed or fail on their own merits, it makes no difference to me. But when the average middle class taxpayer is being squeezed for every nickel and dime to educate and feed the children of tens of millions of new minimum wage workers, that's a different story.
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