ICE Arrests 680+ Illegal Workers in Mississippi Food Processing Raid

[ch33zw1z]

Its not Capitalism. Same thing happens under any and all economic ideologies (happens under Communism), which is why you need strong government to keep it in check, but also need checks on the government (like Democracy) to keep it from acting similarly or being corrupted by the inherent greed of human beings. What we've been seeing is those checks being eroded and the corruption taking over. If the people don't hold the government accountable, this is going to happen.

Humans proclivity to avarice does afflict any type of social structure if it's allowed.

the way it appears to me is that greed is a core tenet of capitalism, and it's celebrated, and we lie to ourselves about how it affects the plebes.

in other social structures, like communism, it's not supposed to be about greed, but the humans naturally corrupt moral fiber is not celebrated the same way (if at all) and again the plebes are lied to.

it seems a healthy mix of socialism is likely our best bet to ensure everyone is getting a piece.

and I agree, a strong(er) syst of checks and balances is needed to ensure any social structure doesn't get out of hand. Which is NOT what were seeing now in America. In fact, there was only a brief time in our history that we had this.

 

[s0me0nesmind1]

Humans proclivity to avarice does afflict any type of social structure if it's allowed.

the way it appears to me is that greed is a core tenet of capitalism, and it's celebrated, and we lie to ourselves about how it affects the plebes.

in other social structures, like communism, it's not supposed to be about greed, but the humans naturally corrupt moral fiber is not celebrated the same way (if at all) and again the plebes are lied to.

it seems a healthy mix of socialism is likely our best bet to ensure everyone is getting a piece.

and I agree, a strong(er) syst of checks and balances is needed to ensure any social structure doesn't get out of hand. Which is NOT what were seeing now in America. In fact, there was only a brief time in our history that we had this.

No, capitalism is just like sports - people have a natural tendency to want to be the best....

It could be the best as far as...
Having the most money...
Being the top company in an industry....
Wanting to innovate the most (see Jeff Bezos, Elon Mustk, etc.)
Being the most attention whoring...

etc.. etc..

The fact simply being - just like sports - there are people who want to cheat and not follow the rules. Those people should be punished and barred from participating. That isn't capitalism, that is corruption. Just like any sports, political affiliation, economic system - there can always be corruption.

In fact, your best shot against corruption is simply having a culture that has high moral standards (e.g. Japan). How you enact that in your people is beyond me.

 

[Vic]

No, you mistake things. Capitalism allows greed and ambition to work for you, though. But it itself is not greed. If making money is what drives you, then you can succeed in a capitalist society. If one doesn't want to work hard and complains that it is too hard to make it because it requires effort and not making excuses, then socialism might be better for you. Liberals love socialism.

Do you want government to regulate our diet and what food we buy? Y/N?

Two things you appear not be aware of:

1. Capitalism is liberalism. This is why the liberal cities are the hotbeds of capitalism in the US, driving innovation, technology, and wealth, while the conservative areas do none of those things. This is also why conservatives hate free trade, because free trade is liberalism.

2. The govt already regulates that through the FDA.

 

[ch33zw1z]

No, capitalism is just like sports - people have a natural tendency to want to be the best....

It could be the best as far as...
Having the most money...
Being the top company in an industry....
Wanting to innovate the most (see Jeff Bezos, Elon Mustk, etc.)
Being the most attention whoring...

etc.. etc..

The fact simply being - just like sports - there are people who want to cheat and not follow the rules. Those people should be punished and barred from participating. That isn't capitalism, that is corruption. Just like any sports, political affiliation, economic system - there can always be corruption.

In fact, your best shot against corruption is simply having a culture that has high moral standards (e.g. Japan). How you enact that in your people is beyond me.

You can spin it how you like. The people (including corporations) with the most money just keep getting handed more money. In fact, their only product is money.

 

[DrDoug]

“Terrible things are happening outside… poor helpless people are being dragged out of their homes. Families are torn apart; men, women and children are separated. Children come home from school to find that their parents have disappeared.” - Anne Frank (Jan 13, 1943)

The 21st century version of compassionate conservatism is a lot like Anne Frank's description of NAZI Germany.

 

[brycejones]

The 21st century version of compassionate conservatism is a lot like Anne Frank's description of NAZI Germany.

Compassionate conservatism ended with W. The GOP is now purely the FYGM party and doesn’t even pretend to give a shit.

 

[JEDIYoda]

No, you mistake things. Capitalism allows greed and ambition to work for you, though. But it itself is not greed. If making money is what drives you, then you can succeed in a capitalist society. If one doesn't want to work hard and complains that it is too hard to make it because it requires effort and not making excuses, then socialism might be better for you. Liberals love socialism.

Do you want government to regulate our diet and what food we buy? Y/N?

ahahahhaahaaaaaa...….

 

[IronWing]

Compassionate conservatism ended with W Eisenhower. The GOP is now purely the FYGM party and doesn’t even pretend to give a shit.

Fixed that.

 

[Jhhnn]

Yeah, Citizens United was a stab in the heart for political honesty and openness. It SHOULD be overturned. Until we find a way to take the money out of politics, We the People are going to be fucked by We the Corporations.

HB-1 would go a long way in the right direction. If we can't keep money out of politics then we should at least be able to identify whose money we're talking about. The GOP employs some elaborate mechanisms to conceal the sources of political spending. That's why they went ballistic when the IRS starting sniffing around their scam with non-profits. That's why they get all twitchy when Joachin Castro names & shames Trump contributors, too. A puppet show just doesn't come across the same way when you can see the puppeteers. I seriously doubt that Teahadis realize that stuff was astroturfed right into their heads by Fox & Koch Bros money. No idea at all.

 

[darkswordsman17]

Capitalism justifies greed in ways that other ideologies don't. Ask Gordon Gekko.

Oh please, that's like saying Democracy justifies war because America. Should we demonize democracies too because, for the same reasons Americans let capitalism fuck things up, they let their democracy get fucked up?

Yes, because a ridiculous (intentionally so) character from an 80s movie makes total sense to base things off of. Yes I know that's what Wall Street assholes did. And that's my point, they are the fucking problem, not the ideology because they'll be fucking greedy psychopathic assholes no matter what. Or its even worse and you didn't realize that character was meant to be a caricature (basically a modern version of the mustache twirling villain) used to highlight the negative qualities of many business persons.

Shit, should we ditch Title IX and the EPA because of Nixon? Because that's the type of argument you're putting forth on this. And its pretty much the same as the idiots decrying Communism and Socialism because Stalin and Hitler (or stupid dumbfucks like the Norewegian black metal crowd that was mad that things were too good so therefore socialism is bad).

Humans proclivity to avarice does afflict any type of social structure if it's allowed.

the way it appears to me is that greed is a core tenet of capitalism, and it's celebrated, and we lie to ourselves about how it affects the plebes.

in other social structures, like communism, it's not supposed to be about greed, but the humans naturally corrupt moral fiber is not celebrated the same way (if at all) and again the plebes are lied to.

it seems a healthy mix of socialism is likely our best bet to ensure everyone is getting a piece.

and I agree, a strong(er) syst of checks and balances is needed to ensure any social structure doesn't get out of hand. Which is NOT what were seeing now in America. In fact, there was only a brief time in our history that we had this.

Yes, and yet it seems like it needs to constantly be pointed out to people.

Greed is a core tenet of human beings (probably other creatures as well). Change the ideology and it holds true unfortunately. I don't think capitalism argues for unfettered greed, that's just the bastardized dumbshit version that psychopaths and people that apparently watched too much 80s movies got. The issue is those people got away with that because no one called them on it and held them accountable.

Communism celebrated greed just the same, and it was the same type of people celebrating it (and often just as openly, just not in the same ways - which who gives a fuck if its open or not if its still doing the same harm?). I don't know what to tell you as its not like communism or socialims didn't lie to the plebes as well.

That's exactly my point. Its not supposed to but it does because its human beings, and there were just as many evils perpetrated by communists under the same bullshit guise that Capitalists used. It was all bullshit to brainwash the masses, which has just led to ongoing problems, because now instead of focusing on corruption, we have to deal with idiocy about "OMG Communism/Socialism/Capitalism!!!" Because of that we're now struggling to deal with the issues. Changing from capitalism isn't going to fix our shit if we keep the same fucking people involved.

Which is what I said. Then I get you guys throwing fucking Gordon Gekko at me like that's an actual argument. Well regulated capitalism mixed with socialism seems to offer the best situation for human societies on larger scales. Its possible that things could change such that make others make more sense (communism I don't think will be feasible until next level Star Trek technology like replicators and near enough as "free" energy; basically a true post scarcity society). Which maybe we'll end up in a simulated Libertarian utopia before then, where we'd be hooked into the matrix and get to experience whatever we want, untethered by the limitations of reality.

 

[ch33zw1z]

Oh please, that's like saying Democracy justifies war because America. Should we demonize democracies too because, for the same reasons Americans let capitalism fuck things up, they let their democracy get fucked up?

Yes, because a ridiculous (intentionally so) character from an 80s movie makes total sense to base things off of. Yes I know that's what Wall Street assholes did. And that's my point, they are the fucking problem, not the ideology because they'll be fucking greedy psychopathic assholes no matter what. Or its even worse and you didn't realize that character was meant to be a caricature (basically a modern version of the mustache twirling villain) used to highlight the negative qualities of many business persons.

Shit, should we ditch Title IX and the EPA because of Nixon? Because that's the type of argument you're putting forth on this. And its pretty much the same as the idiots decrying Communism and Socialism because Stalin and Hitler (or stupid dumbfucks like the Norewegian black metal crowd that was mad that things were too good so therefore socialism is bad).



Yes, and yet it seems like it needs to constantly be pointed out to people.

Greed is a core tenet of human beings (probably other creatures as well). Change the ideology and it holds true unfortunately. I don't think capitalism argues for unfettered greed, that's just the bastardized dumbshit version that psychopaths and people that apparently watched too much 80s movies got. The issue is those people got away with that because no one called them on it and held them accountable.

Communism celebrated greed just the same, and it was the same type of people celebrating it (and often just as openly, just not in the same ways - which who gives a fuck if its open or not if its still doing the same harm?). I don't know what to tell you as its not like communism or socialims didn't lie to the plebes as well.

That's exactly my point. Its not supposed to but it does because its human beings, and there were just as many evils perpetrated by communists under the same bullshit guise that Capitalists used. It was all bullshit to brainwash the masses, which has just led to ongoing problems, because now instead of focusing on corruption, we have to deal with idiocy about "OMG Communism/Socialism/Capitalism!!!" Because of that we're now struggling to deal with the issues. Changing from capitalism isn't going to fix our shit if we keep the same fucking people involved.

Which is what I said. Then I get you guys throwing fucking Gordon Gekko at me like that's an actual argument.

I'm not sure who Gordon gekko is, I'll google it later. The rant style post aside, we're in general agreement. Humans tend to be the common denominator when trying to figure out why we can't have nice things

 

[Jhhnn]

Oh please, that's like saying Democracy justifies war because America. Should we demonize democracies too because, for the same reasons Americans let capitalism fuck things up, they let their democracy get fucked up?

Yes, because asking a ridiculous (intentionally so) character from an 80s movie makes total sense to base things off of.

Please. At the ideological level, socialism is about "We" and "Ours" with the primary goal of advancing the welfare of the weakest among us. Capitalism is about "Me" and "Mine" and bootstraps for everybody else. While Socialism must necessarily be corrupted to yield the results you describe they are the natural result of naked Capitalism.

 

[UglyCasanova]

Need to go after the employers. Come up with a very easy to use e verification process and hold employers accountable. No loopholes, no exceptions, no carveouts. Make it foolproof and easy as hell to use and hold them accountable for hiring illegals. Huge fines for doing so all he way up to jail time.

 

[Jhhnn]

Need to go after the employers. Come up with a very easy to use e verification process and hold employers accountable. No loopholes, no exceptions, no carveouts. Make it foolproof and easy as hell to use and hold them accountable for hiring illegals. Huge fines for doing so all he way up to jail time.

Bless your fascist heart...

 

[jackstar7]

I certainly hope so too.

But last I checked, CEOs and top company management that might have known about this don't tend to hang out in a poultry factories.

And also - last I checked - ICE (Immigration and Customs Enforcement) has nothing to do with raiding corporate buildings to arrest legal business execs.

Point being, I'm sure something will come of this - but it won't be an attention grabbing bleeding heart tugging headline so it will go largely unreported vs. this. If you stay on top of this subject and check the news on these poultry companies over the next 6 months, I guarantee something punitive will occur.

Look who has so much faith in government all of a sudden.

 

[iRONic]

Need to go after the employers. Come up with a very easy to use e verification process and hold employers accountable. No loopholes, no exceptions, no carveouts. Make it foolproof and easy as hell to use and hold them accountable for hiring illegals. Huge fines for doing so all he way up to jail time.

Documents: Plant owners ‘willfully’ used ineligible workers

 

[soundforbjt]

Documents: Plant owners ‘willfully’ used ineligible workers

The CEO of Koch Foods is a real asshole.
https://www.propublica.org/article/how-a-top-chicken-company-cut-off-black-farmers-one-by-one#

After the complaints by the farmers, an investigator for the USDA, which is responsible for regulating the industry, looked into Koch Foods’ dealings with those farmers and found “evidence of unjust discrimination,” according to a 700-page case file obtained by ProPublica. The investigator concluded that Koch Foods violated a law governing meat companies’ business practices.

The Trump administration has cut back on enforcing this law, with the USDA now conducting fewer investigations and imposing fewer fines, as ProPublica has reported. Koch Foods hasn’t faced any penalty.

Koch Foods declined to provide an interview with any of its executives or to answer detailed questions about its dealings with black farmers in Mississippi. A lawyer for the company said it denies wrongdoing.

Mississippi is the fifth-largest poultry-producing state, with more than 1,300 chicken farms. In a state where the population is 38% black, only 96 of those farms were operated by African Americans in 2012, the most recent USDA data available. From 2009 to 2017, Koch Foods went from having contracts with four black farmers in Mississippi to zero.

After Ingrum signed his contract to grow chickens for Koch Foods, in 2002, different company representatives kept coming with lists of expensive modifications they wanted Ingrum to make, according to an affidavit he provided to the USDA investigator. After Ingrum met all the specifications, the next representative went back on what the previous one said and wanted things done a different way, Ingrum said in the affidavit.

Chicken companies usually say they update their specifications to improve animal welfare or respond to consumer preferences like avoiding antibiotics. But Ingrum couldn’t find much logic in the changes Koch Foods wanted him to make. One service technician directed Ingrum to install lights in one place, the next one someplace else. Another time, the company wanted Ingrum to move a power line, even though it was out of the way of the feed trucks and bins. That cost him $6,000.

 

[uallas5]

Still waiting for images of the "no knock" warrants on the business owners being enforced at the same time as the raids. This happened right? I mean they were under investigation for over a year before this happened.

 

[soundforbjt]

Still waiting for images of the "no knock" warrants on the business owners being enforced at the same time as the raids. This happened right? I mean they were under investigation for over a year before this happened.

The owner is a billionaire worth 3.1 bil, don't expect that to happen anytime soon.

 

[Jhhnn]

The owner is a billionaire worth 3.1 bil, don't expect that to happen anytime soon.

I'm sure he has a few layers of sacrificial managers between himself & the chicken plants.

 

[soundforbjt]

I'm sure he has a few layers of sacrificial managers between himself & the chicken plants.

I'd think so, he lives in Chicago.

 

[Jhhnn]

Documents: Plant owners ‘willfully’ used ineligible workers

The whole thing is pretty twisted, huh? The thing about the monitoring bracelets is an amazing catch-22. Kick somebody loose while their case is being processed but keep it illegal for them to work to feed themselves. Then use the monitoring bracelet to bust anybody who hires them.

 

[Luna1968]

Start with Trump.

sure

 

[SlowSpyder]

Two things you appear not be aware of:

1. Capitalism is liberalism. This is why the liberal cities are the hotbeds of capitalism in the US, driving innovation, technology, and wealth, while the conservative areas do none of those things. This is also why conservatives hate free trade, because free trade is liberalism.

2. The govt already regulates that through the FDA.

1 Is word salad touching yourself bullshit.

2 The government regulates the quality of food to certain standards, they don't decide anyone's diet.

 

[JEDIYoda]

1 Is word salad touching yourself bullshit.

2 The government regulates the quality of food to certain standards, they don't decide anyone's diet.

hahahaaaaaaaaa...…...